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Find answers to Frequently Asked Questions for First Generation Firebirds that have been asked on First Generation Firebird-L mailing list. Special thanks needs to be given to all the Firebird-L owners that took the time to respond to other subscribers questions. These pages are continuously updated as new information is posted on the mailing list.
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| Q: | Console Differences |
| What were the differences between the consoles for the first generation Firebird. | |
| A: | Hey folks, the 67 console had a top with a finish called "camera-case grain", and was satin black in finish. In 68 and 69, they added a metal applique with the burled walnut finish, matching door and rear cover, and eliminated the rear ashtray and light. The main console structure and the chrome rails were the same for all 3 years of Firebirds and also for the 67 camaros. If you unbolt the walnut applique from a 68-69 console, you'll be looking at a 67 console with holes drilled for the studs on the applique. The appliques were different for standard and automatic equipped cars. |
| Q: | '68/'69 Woodgrain console covering |
| Is there any company reproducing the correct style woodgrain material for the '68 and '69 consoles? All I have seen so far is a cheap rip off; can't anyone realize that people are willing to pay for an exact reproduction. | |
| A: |
Regarding the recent discussion on the Woodgrain Material used on the '68/'69
Firebird Console, Dash Trim, Radio Face, AshTray.....
The 'hobby' is definitely in need of some correct reproductions here. Yes, there are repro's out there in the form of 'contact paper' to actual die-cut pieces. The obvious problem is the attention to detail. Correct graining/texture is important (I say.. if you're going to do it, do it right). The forming around edges and within recessed areas is important. The integrity and longevity of the adhesive is very important. In the case of the Console and Dash Trim, the 'contact paper' was bonded to thin sheets of metal. This metal backing is also a good candidate for correct reproduction since it too does not wear too well after 30+ years. Based on some of the repro pieces I've seen out there, it seems to me that many companies have offered the cheapest form of a 'quick-fix' which may be 'ok' to some who just want an 'ok' appearance. If someone goes to the trouble of preparing Die-Cutting Tools, obtaining correct material and using some sort of forming process, why would they not pay attention to detail and avoid obvious mistakes ? Because not everyone is that picky (they think) and why put alot into something when you can keep costs down and still make a tidy profit for these 'Best We Can Do Parts' ? The big difference between 1968 and 1999 is technology. Yes, things are basically more costly today than they were then but thanks to advances in technology, we now have the capability to duplicate an old process much more accurately (and many times even cheaper). I'd agree with Gary here; the key element here is obtaining the correct 'embossed' material for appearance, grain, texture and wear. Once this source is found, the next steps are relatively easy. Dies must be formed and a process defined for fitting the woodgrain onto the thin metal parts. If someone comes up with a source for the material, I can approach several shops I work with regularly about the die work and forming process. If all we wanted here was a new looking woodgrain, we could simply go down to the local Home Depot and buy a roll of contact paper; so why spend money on cheap repro parts ? Do it right and the price will be justified. |
| Q: | Console Usage Firebird vs. Camaro |
| I know this is a pretty wide question but can any one give me the rundown on consoles (particularly manual trans) usage in the 67-69 firebirds (particularly 69's). Are they the same as a Camaro ? Can you use a Camaro one ? I ask because I'm sure a Camaro one is easier/cheaper to find.A friend told me they are the same exept for the Pontiac has the woodgrain overlay.I know, I know, how can I suggest such blasphemy! | |
| A: | Only the 67 Camaro console is the same as the "Standard" console in the 67-69 Firebird. The shift plate insert can be changed to install either an automatic or standard transmission. |
| Q: | Console Removal |
| Hey all, my 68's carpet is trashed and I am going to replace it. Can anyone offer a step by step removal of the console for me?? I can't find anything in my manuals other than "Remove the console." How do you take the "T" Handle off? How does the plate that covers the gear indicator "P R N D L" come off? Where are the bolts that fasten it to the hump? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!! | |
| A: |
I just went through the same process. Here are the steps I followed:
1. Remove the black plastic button by pulling up. It just snaps in. 2. Inside the T-handle there is a set screw on the right side that holds it to the vertical shaft. Loosen the screw and remove the T-handle. 3. The plate that holds the selector indicator snaps onto the console. Use a thin blade screwdriver to pop it off. 4. The console is secured by small screws on each side of the front of the console and by two larger screws that secure it to the floor. One of these larger screws is inside of the console bin on the bottom and the other is located under the rear cover of the console. Remove the sheet metal screws of the cover and remove it and you will see the larger screw. |
| A: |
You'll need to remove the shift plate (the thing that has PRNDL) so the
console can slide over. Depending on which one you have, the shift plate
is held in place by either 4 chrome screws or hidden clips. The screws
will be obvious (4 through the top). If you don't see any screws, then it
is held in place by clips that are cast into the plate and snap into the
shifter base. To remove just gently pry up the shift plate until the clips
release.
The console attaches to the floor with two small screws (one on each side) on the sides at the front , with a bolt in the glove box, and a bolt under the rear trim (the corner piece behind the glove box. |
| Q: | Optional Instrument Cluster Console |
| Besides the '67 article I ran across, I have not seen an optional instrument console cluster. Was this only offered in '67 or in the other years? If this was offered as an option for Firebirds, what sales code did it have in each year? I have seen the dash Rally Gauge Cluster and have the sales codes for it but do not have the information for the console style. | |
| A: | What you are seeing is an early production photo. The Firebirds never could be ordered with the console gauge package. However, their cousin the camero could. The console gauges were necessary on the cameros because the factory tachometer on a camero was in the dash cluster next to the speedo. As we all know, Pontiac choose to put the tach on the hood to allow plenty of space in the right speedo cluster pod for the other gauges. |
| Q: | PMD Walnut Shifter Knobs |
| What is the correct Pontiac Motor Division walnut shifter knob style? | |
| A: |
Use the following link for a photo of an Installation Drawing for the
Walnut Shifter Knobs for 3 and 4 spd M/T Pontiac's: http://FirstGenFirebird.org/firebird/FAQ/docs/68WLNTShfKnb.jpg .
These are the "PMD" style knobs:
Note the application ("1968 w/M/T Floor Shift") Also note the date on the drawing (1-23-67) There have been reports of the earlier ('66-'67) "GTO CREST" Knob being used on the '67/'68 Firebirds. This may have happened as the result of Dealer Stock but I doubt that any '68 Firebirds came from the factory with a "GTO CREST" 4spd Knob. Also note, the '68 Accsry. Book notes that the Custom GearShift Knob (code 524) was used in (2) different styles (3 and 4 spd). 3spd used the "Pontiac Vee Crest" 4spd used the "Shift Position" (pattern). In '67 this knob was described as having (2) applications: 3 and 4 spd with "Ebony appearing Pontiac Crest and shift pattern" In '66 this knob was described as being available for only the GTO with the 4spd trans. If you have any comments or corrections, please forward them. Thanks, John (FRamair@aol.com) |
| Q: | T-Handle Shifters |
| Did TH400 trannies ever come with T-handle shifters in any Firebirds? | |
| A: |
Yes, the 67 400/400 has a T handle for the automatic. As far as I know the handles were the same for all 67 automatics ( T handle with the "button" above/inside the T).
In 68 they went to a T handle with the "button" that sort-off wraps around the top and sides for the automatic. In 69 the THM-equipped went to the new simulated walnut knob round knob with the button on top (Knob shaped like the new real walnut knob available in the manual floor shift) and a T-handle ONLY for the 2-speed automatic. Keep in mind this was a new shifter for the automatics, with the ability to speed-shift without skipping up past the next gear. Sort of a poor-man's Dual-Gate. Just lean the knob to your right, and when you push it to the next gear, it stops in a detent at the next position. The differences were in the linkage mechanism and not in the handles (for the different types of automatics). All years had the early "bird" emblem in the pushbutton style. |
| Q: | Hurst Shifters |
| I was wondering if anyone out there has replaced their click-clack console in a '67 with something else. I am converting my car from a ST300 to a four-speed, and will be using a Hurst shifter. I was thinking of trying to find a shift boot that will fit in the opening, but wanted to see if anyone else has any ideas. | |
| A: | 68 and later Firebirds came standard with Hurst shifters. This would be more correct in apperance that the aftermarket Hurst shifters. The factory shifter came with a round stick that was locked into the shifter body Replacement Hurst shifters have a flat, bolt-on stick. You can convert the 67 automatic console very easily, just take out the auto. shift plate and replace with the 67 4 speed shifter plate, which is avaliable repro. DO NOT use the orginal 67 4 speed shifter. Bad news is the 68-9 shifter hits the front of 67console with this combo. I used a 67 4 speed console in my 68 with correct 68 shifter and found this out. easy fix was to leave the console loose and live with it. You might consider using a 68-9 4 speed console. I saw one that the burled elm was shot so the owner removed the veneer and painted it semi gloss black. To tell you the truth it didnt look too bad that way. Then you wouldnt have a mismatch or wood trim 67 vs 68-9. |
| A: |
I did this conversion many years ago, using stock parts. The 67
console is the same, in either manual or automatic applications.
They use a seperate bezel which is specific to the transmission
type. Replace your auto trans. bezel with a stick shift unit,
and get the stock boot and retainer plate. The transmission I
used had a Hurst Competition Plus shifter, useable with or
without a console. There were no fit issues regarding the console.
Hurst makes another shifter, the "Street Super Shifter", which uses straight rods and does not fit any console. And of course, there is the Indy shifter. I don't know if that shifter will fit a console, but may prefer to use a stock shifter instead. Maybe. As for boots... You can use any boot you like, since they are nearly entirely covered by the shifter plate. And the boot size isn't hindered by the console or plate either. If you happen to have a badly butchered trans tunnel, as many of our veteran cars do, get any aftermarket boot that will cover the hole. Otherwise, the stock boot will work with the Hurst shifter. I hope that this helps. |
| Q: | '69 Hurst Shifter |
| How do I identify a Hurst shifter on my '69? | |
| A: |
Here are some clues. The original 69 was a Hurst Competition Plus, and said so on the body of the shifter. The chrome handle is rounded except for a flat spot on either side where the name Hurst is stamped, and the handle slips into the top of the shifter arm. It's held in place by a couple spring clips, removed by slipping two feeler blades down the sides to release the springs and pulling the handle upwards. Under the car, the shifter has molded rubber where each of the rods connects to the levers. Aftermarket Hurst shifter do not have the molded rubber, just a thin separate bushing of nylon or steel, and the handles (usually flat) bolt onto the shifter assembly.
The only numbers here on the 2 shifters in my hand are date codes and a patent number. |
| Q: | Hurst Shifter Problem |
| And I thought that I was the only one having problems getting a Hurst shifter to fit. I had 3 similar problems putting a Hurst Competition Plus in my 68 4 speed with console | |
| A: | If you use an original Competition Plus shifter you wont have any problems with console. The only functional difference between the aftermarket Competition Plus and PMD model was the linkage rods used rubber bushings and were smaller diameter than the over counter ones. An upgrade kit is available from Hurst to change the linkage to the later style and steel bushings. You will get more vibrations thru the shifter than with stock linkage but its a trade off for tighter shifter feel and control. Every magazine test of that era raved about the Pontiacs choice to use Hurst as standard equipment, which is one reason they sold so many performance models compared to other GM lines. I used to love to pick on the early Chevelle SS396s as they were guaranteed to hang up between 2nd and 3rd with the POS Muncie shifter. |
| Q: | Dual-Gate Shifter Installation for Automatic |
| I want to put a Dual-Gate Shifter in my Firebird. Does anyone have any tips or recommendations? | |
| A: |
I recently did a dual-gate
installation on my 68. I talked with someone several times about the details of
making this installation work who installed a GTO console and shifter, and I looked for a long time at other ways to get the GTO shifter into the Bird. I finally used a Hurst dual-gate shifter
out of a 442. It is the exact same size and form as the shifter out of the
Firebirds -- even the mounting holes matched. The console fits smoothly over
the shifter. Its not quite as "beefy" as the GTO model shifter, but I don't
think I will ever break it. The 442 model has a "bent" stick, where the GTO
model is straight. The bent stick puts the stick a little closer to the
driver, plus I like the looks better. The 442 shifter also has a little more
positive locking system when using the manual side.
Since the GTO shifter plate was smaller than the Bird's, it didn't cover the hole in the console. I cut out the middle of the Firebird shifter bezel and "transplanted" the GTO shifter plate into the hole using JB weld. I made a custom woodgrain insert out of a piece of walnut veneer to fit the new piece; it's sexy! If you've never used a dual-gate, it has two slots for the shifter -- a "hers" side, which works like a normal shifter, and a "his" side, which shifts the gears manually. It gives you the ability to manually work up through the gears and back down on an automatic without worrying about missing a gear or hitting reverse. BTW, a 68 Bird that won best of show at last year's T/A Nationals had a 442 dual-gate installed. |
| A: |
know a couple guys were interested in pics of my dual gate shifter
installation using a 442 shifter. I borrowed a digital camera, so here
they are. There's also some pics of the GTO dual gate shifter I have, as
well as a pic of GTOKens dual gate install of a GTO shifter.
GTO Dual Gate and Bracket: http://FirstGenFirebird.org/firebird/FAQ/docs/68DualGate4.jpg 442 Dual Gate and Plate http://FirstGenFirebird.org/firebird/FAQ/docs/68DualGate7.jpg Standard and Dual Gate Plates: http://FirstGenFirebird.org/firebird/FAQ/docs/68DualGate1.jpg Modified Dual Gate Plate - Front: http://FirstGenFirebird.org/firebird/FAQ/docs/68DualGate2.jpg Modified Dual Gate Plate - Back: http://FirstGenFirebird.org/firebird/FAQ/docs/68DualGate3.jpg Dual Gate in Console - Top http://FirstGenFirebird.org/firebird/FAQ/docs/68DualGate5.jpg Dual Gate in Console - Side http://FirstGenFirebird.org/firebird/FAQ/docs/68DualGate6.jpg |
| A: | that looks great how did you modify the shifter plate. |
| A: |
The pic of the back of the plate shows how I fit the smaller GTO bezel
into the larger Firebird one. I marked the 'Bird plate with the GTO outline,
took a Dremel with a cutting wheel and cut a hole to fit. Then I ground the lip off the GTO plate and used JB Weld to hold it in the Firebird shell. I added a couple of gussets to beef it up. |
| Q: | Removing the shift knob on a 69 3-speed |
|
How do you remove the shift knob on a 69 3 speed?
I need to pull the console pannel so that I can do some refurbishing and I can't figure out how to pull the knob off. I tried to spin it but it won't budge and I don't want to bust it. It has the push button with the bird in the middle. | |
| A: | To remove the shifter knob, first remove the push button (use a rag to protect it and and plyers to pull it); under the knob, around the shaft is a small snap ring, use expanding snap ring plyers. After you remove the snap ring, the knob should come off. |
| Q: | '68/'69 Custom Walnut Shift Knob |
| Does your shift knob have a crest on it? I am having a hard time finding a reproduction one that looks correct. | |
| A: | For those who are interested, I've posted (2) pictures on the "Generation-1" WebSite that show the difference between the Original and Repro Shifter Knob (984700....'68 F, P 4-Spd Custom Walnut Shifter Knob) (9794300..'69 All 4-Spd Custom Walnut Shifter Knob) *** http://members.aol.com/Framair/TechTips.html *** |
| A: |
The below Web Site address shows (2) Pictures of the '68-'69 Custom Walnut
Shifter Knob.. (1) is an original, the other a repro. (Note the difference
in size, detail). This was the original Factory/Dealer Option for all
Pontiacs however, there WAS a unique one for the GTO (used from '65 - '68)
that had a 'GTO' Crest in the back ground and was a somewhat smaller profile
knob.
http://members.aol.com/Framair/TechTips.html |
| Q: | '68 Custom Walnut Knobs |
| Do you know if the walnut shift knob was an option installed at the factory, or the dealer. There is a lady I work with, who owns a 68 OHC 6, 4spd, that she has owned since 72, and it has the walnut shift knob. One thing I noticed though, is it has what looks like the GTO "crest" on it. Were all the walnut knobs like this? | |
| A: | The Walnut Shifter Knob was a Factory (or Dealer) option in '68. Only the GTO had the unique 'GTO CREST" Walnut Knob. All others including Firebird used the "PONTIAC MOTOR DIVISION" w/shift Pattern Design. I've heard from several who claim their car originally came (from the Dealer) with the GTO Knob. I guess anything is possible. Could be, the dealer had only those in stock and stuck them on a few cars to dress them up to attract customers (as was done with wheels, stripes, chrome exhaust extensions, etc.). By the way, only the GTO Walnut Knob has been 'correctly' reproduced. The repro for the "PMD" Knob is a cheap version that has an incorrect adhesive lucite medallion (no detail) and an incorrectly formed knob. Figure around $75 and up for a correct original used/NOS "PMD" knob. |
| Q: | '68 Shift Knobs |
| Do you know why some 68's got a black shift knob, and others white? | |
| A: | I'm not aware of any '68's that had the white 4spd knob installed from the factory unless this was an early production 'carry-over' situation (using '67 stock). I've seen some pretty early '68's with the Black Knob; never a white one though. |
| Q: | 68 Firebird Walnut Shifter Knob |
| What is the correct Walnut Shift Knob for a '68? | |
| A: |
Thanks for your insight on the Walnut Shift Knobs.
In addition to the numbers your shared, I found others....
984700 4spd- all '68 (per '68 Accsry Book) 984848 3spd- all '66-'69 984989 M.T. '67 Firebird 9794300 4spd- all '69 I've seen photos & cars showing the '69 Style on a 4spd 'Bird and I've also known of one individual who has the 'GTO' Crest Knob on a '68 4spd that he claims is how he got it from original owner. What I'd like to verify are part numbers from other year Part Books against the above numbers. From the '68 Full-Line Accessory Booklet: Custom Gearshift Knob (524) Walnut appearing...for 3 or 4 spd... Has shift position indicated on 4 spd knob. Has Pontiac "Vee" Crest on 3 spd knob. Available all models... (factory/dealer) I find it difficult to believe that the Factory and/or Marketing would have designated the "GTO" Knob for a Firebird. Certainly the Dealer would have/could have installed anything the owner wanted or, whatever they happened to have in-stock at the time. Problem is, finding actual evidence (photos) from '68 showing the '69 Style 4spd knob on a Firebird. Personally, I think this knob ("Pontiac Motor Division" w/pattern) is what the factory would have installed on the 4spd Firebird. But then, nothing is certain especially without sufficient evidence. I have no doubt that variations in usage occurred during '67-'69. Perhaps the '69 Style Knob was factory only and/or it only came out later in the '68 model year. Anyhow, thanks for the info and if you find other evidence, please let me know. |
| Q: | '68 Shifter Hole Template for 4-speed |
| I want to convert my column shift 4-speed to a floor shift. Does anyone have a template where I need to locate this? | |
| A: |
For those of you that are interested, I've completed the template for 4 speed shifter mounting hole:
Actual Size Template: view it now (88K) Preview Size: view it now (32K) Instructions: 1.) You will need to remove the seam sealer along the top of the tranny tunnel, (just underneath the dashboard). The sheetmetal edge is used as a reference point. All "Y" coordinates are located from that line. There is also a second line drawn on the template that aligns with the edge of a rolled crease in the tranny tunnel. Due to the soft radius of that crease, it would be a less accurate point of reference. CAUTION: I would check both reference lines to make sure that they line up within reason. GM may have not cared about the edge of the sheetmetal that I used as a reference point. I have no way of knowing. If the edge and crease look to be in alignment, then there is a higher likelihood that the reference points are good to use as standards. 2.) You will need to draw a centerline down the middle of your tunnel. All "X" coordinates are referenced from there. The centerline is not easy to determine due to the soft radius of the tunnel sides. I found it best to locate the center of the tunnel in about 10 different locations and then draw a straight line down the center of the dots. I found that all of the dots I made were within 1/16"" of the line I drew, so I felt that accuracy was pretty good. 3.) When drawing and cutting the hole, keep in mind that GM did a very very sloppy job of cutting the hole. It looked like it was cut with a torch. My template provides a nice smooth hole pattern. If you cut it and it looks sloppy, you are still probably better than GM. If you want to duplicate the GM factory look, cut the hole about 3/16" smaller all the way around and then melt the edges slightly with a torch in a bunch of spots at random. It will look like melted candle wax on the edges. 4.) After you have cut the hole, then align the bezel for the rubber shifting boot with the shifter hole. I would use the bezel to locate the screw holes for the bezel and boot, not the template (although the template is very close to being right on). 5.) For those of you who will wonder if the template is correct, the shifter hole is not in the center of the tunnel. It is in fact offset to the left. It makes sense when you remember that the shifter is mounted on the side of the tranny. 6.) Last but not least, please keep in mind that I've done the best I can to produce an accurate template. Still, I'm certain that it has some error to it. Judging from the hole that GM cut in my car, I don't think the error is worth worrying about. Good luck and may the Sawzall gods be with you!! |
| Q: | '68 Shifter Hole Template for 4-speed |
| I want to convert my column shift 4-speed to a floor shift. Does anyone have a template where I need to locate this? | |
| A: |
For those of you that are interested, I've completed the template for 4 speed shifter mounting hole:
Actual Size Template: view it now (88K) Preview Size: view it now (32K) Instructions: 1.) You will need to remove the seam sealer along the top of the tranny tunnel, (just underneath the dashboard). The sheetmetal edge is used as a reference point. All "Y" coordinates are located from that line. There is also a second line drawn on the template that aligns with the edge of a rolled crease in the tranny tunnel. Due to the soft radius of that crease, it would be a less accurate point of reference. CAUTION: I would check both reference lines to make sure that they line up within reason. GM may have not cared about the edge of the sheetmetal that I used as a reference point. I have no way of knowing. If the edge and crease look to be in alignment, then there is a higher likelihood that the reference points are good to use as standards. 2.) You will need to draw a centerline down the middle of your tunnel. All "X" coordinates are referenced from there. The centerline is not easy to determine due to the soft radius of the tunnel sides. I found it best to locate the center of the tunnel in about 10 different locations and then draw a straight line down the center of the dots. I found that all of the dots I made were within 1/16"" of the line I drew, so I felt that accuracy was pretty good. 3.) When drawing and cutting the hole, keep in mind that GM did a very very sloppy job of cutting the hole. It looked like it was cut with a torch. My template provides a nice smooth hole pattern. If you cut it and it looks sloppy, you are still probably better than GM. If you want to duplicate the GM factory look, cut the hole about 3/16" smaller all the way around and then melt the edges slightly with a torch in a bunch of spots at random. It will look like melted candle wax on the edges. 4.) After you have cut the hole, then align the bezel for the rubber shifting boot with the shifter hole. I would use the bezel to locate the screw holes for the bezel and boot, not the template (although the template is very close to being right on). 5.) For those of you who will wonder if the template is correct, the shifter hole is not in the center of the tunnel. It is in fact offset to the left. It makes sense when you remember that the shifter is mounted on the side of the tranny. 6.) Last but not least, please keep in mind that I've done the best I can to produce an accurate template. Still, I'm certain that it has some error to it. Judging from the hole that GM cut in my car, I don't think the error is worth worrying about. Good luck and may the Sawzall gods be with you!! |
| Q: | '69 Shifter |
| What is the correct shifter for a 69' 350/350 with console? If it is the type with the push button,is the black center knob supposed to stick up past the brown outside? if so how much? Any help is appreciated, | |
| A: | Yes, brown wood grain knob with a black push button. The button has the bird emblem on the end. Yes, the button is supposed to stick up above the knob when released, about 1/4 inch. |
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