First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List Old Molding by "Teresa Longworth" <ccscnl@shasta.com> balancing by "lws" <lws@nextek.net> Re: custom ??? by <Framair@aol.com> Re: Ralley II paint schemes... by "John Wern" <jwern@gw.total-web.net> Re: balancing by "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> Re: Big Tires by "pete" <yaselskyp@webtv.net> Re: Big Tires by "pete" <yaselskyp@webtv.net> Re: Ralley II paint schemes... by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Matching Numbers? by <dfmcgr@cs.com> 4 barrel intake swap by "Steve Manktelow" <twocan@colba.net> RE: Old Molding by "John Clear" <jjclear@my-deja.com> Re: Big Tires by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Re: Big Tires by "Landis Rogers" <rogers_landis@hotmail.com> Rims by "Doug Nolte" <dnolte@mortgageselect.com> RE: Old Molding by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> RE: Big Tires by "Mace" <macef@optonline.net> Re: Engine Rebuild by "K and J Arnold" <paintit@gate.net> Re: Big Tires by "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@EBay.Sun.COM> Poncholet by "Gary Patrick" <Gary@tcworks.net> Re: Engine & Trans removal by "K and J Arnold" <paintit@gate.net> Re: Big Tires by "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@EBay.Sun.COM> Re: Ralley II paint schemes... by "K and J Arnold" <paintit@gate.net>
(back) Subject: Old Molding From: "Teresa Longworth" <ccscnl@shasta.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 05:43:11 -0800 I have an 84 T-Bird besides my 68 Firebird and was wondering if you know of a place where one can buy out of date molding - recently had the T-Bird painted and still have the old deteriorated molding on it. Could paint it black I guess, however, there are a few pieces that were damaged in the accident. Thanks for your help.
(back) Subject: balancing From: "lws" <lws@nextek.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:18:33 -0500 Is it worth the money to have internals on 455 balanced,or should I spend that money on new fluiddamper?Thanks,Larry ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/
(back) Subject: Re: custom ??? From: <Framair@aol.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:58:51 EST From: fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net (Chris Porter) >Did the custom interior automatically come with custom >seatbelt's ?? Thanks. ....No. Did some '68 Firebirds invoiced with Std. SeatBelts come with Custom Seat Belts ? Yes. John FRamair@aol.com Semper Fi Ephesians 4:32
(back) Subject: Re: Ralley II paint schemes... From: "John Wern" <jwern@gw.total-web.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:23:27 -0500 Ahh shucks I didnt mean no harm. It was late and my brain was tired. You see I've only had about 500 people tell me it's the wrong color. Plus I lost my job, my hamster got loose, the shower broke, the pipes froze, I wallets missing, My GMC was stolen, my wife - well my wife, my pot pie didnt cook all the way through, my neighbor shot himself, all the fish = died this year in the lake across the street, my kite got stuck in the power lines, I shot a button buck <--that really sucks, the battery in my phone went dead, my head hurts, my belts to tight and I cant do the boogie left and right. So all I've got is that d*#n paint on that engine. Thanks = John. -----Original Message----- From: PStonebrak@aol.com <PStonebrak@aol.com> To: Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> Date: Friday, January 12, 2001 1:02 AM Subject: Re: Ralley II paint schemes... >First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List >......................................................................... >its ok john, kust step back from the screen; easy big guy. Just check out the >real Pontiac colors. I'll try not too interupt. >
(back) Subject: Re: balancing From: "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:40:17 -0600 Larry, The harmonic damper only dampens the shock of the cylinder firing and is = neutral balanced. Spend the money on internal balancing and get a new = stock HB for around 75.00 dollars. Frank >>> lws@nextek.net 01/12/01 08:18AM >>> First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... Is it worth the money to have internals on 455 balanced,or should I spend that money on new fluiddamper?Thanks,Larry ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/
(back) Subject: Re: Big Tires From: "pete" <yaselskyp@webtv.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:06:35 -0800 (PST) OK straight from Car Crafts March 2000 issue. Article"Biggest Tires For your Muscle car" It states: 15-inch:15x8 with 4 1/2 BSing...mounting rear shocks inboard will afford you some combos of 9 inch with 5 1/2 inch BSing. 16-inch: 16x8 with 4 1/2 inch BSg. all around rear shocks will have to relocated inward. use 50 series or less, with section widths of 245 to 255. 17-inch: 17x with 5 1/2 BSing, front and rear. possible lower control arm contact with some steering gears. Use tires with a ratio of 40 or less and section widths of 245 to 255. 18-inch:18x9 with 5 1/2 inch BSing front and rear. ratio of 35 or less with a section width of 245 to 255 for the front and 275 in the rear Now in this article they actually fitted all these wheel tire combos on the car. They do warn that these were Weld rims, and that all rims are a little different so you should still measure for clearance if you use a different brand. My input on it....I took my car down to a local shop to have them measure everything for me. I think I was lucky in the sense that they were not busy or they liked the car. They put it on the rack and took about 2 hrs out of their day to get thigs done to what I would consider right. We test fit a few sets of tires and played with different tire combos on the rims. All for free. This showed me that they care about there customers or possible customers. So I will be going back once I get ready to do the rims. I will be able to fit 17x9's on the rear but I have to move the shock inward of the leafspring. I alao have to grind away at the inner fender, or take a BFH and readjust the inner wheelwell. This step is just for tire clearance at full supension travel. I was going to go with 17x's for the front also but decided to go with 17x8's. not much difference but I did notice that with a 5 1/2 inch BSing it will not allow the whell to ompletely turn with out rubbing on the frame. Their is plenty of clearance from the spindle forward for 5 1/2 but from the spindle back yo will not get a complete turn without hitting the frame right behind where the rubber brake line mounts. This has only been my trials with it.Hope this has helped a little..I will get back with the tire size I test fit that worked on the rears...I will tell you this it wasnt close to 315's. Oh one more thing, the hardest decision to make about relocating the leaf springs from my understanding is that you HAVE to relocate the gas tank.
(back) Subject: Re: Big Tires From: "pete" <yaselskyp@webtv.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:13:32 -0800 (PST) forgot to mention.....that whole list of combos was to flush the tires/rims with the wheelwells, not stick out from them..:)
(back) Subject: Re: Ralley II paint schemes... From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:18:59 -0800 Ouch! Sounds like a rough day >From: "John Wern" <jwern@gw.total-web.net> >Ahh shucks I didnt mean no harm. It was late and my brain was tired. = You >see I've only had about 500 people tell me it's the wrong color. Plus I >lost my job, my hamster got loose, the shower broke, the pipes froze, I >wallets missing, My GMC was stolen, my wife - well my wife, my pot pie >didnt cook all the way through, my neighbor shot himself, all the fish = died >this year in the lake across the street, my kite got stuck in the power >lines, I shot a button buck <--that really sucks, the battery in my = phone >went dead, my head hurts, my belts to tight and I cant do the boogie left >and right. So all I've got is that d*#n paint on that engine. Thanks >John. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Matching Numbers? From: <dfmcgr@cs.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 14:23:33 -0500 I'm considering buying what appears to be an original 69 400 conv. and I = am not fully aware of the procedure for checking the numbers. I am also = concerned because the owner indicated that not all of the plates are = legible. I am aware of the VIN # location on the dash and the firewall plate near = the master cylinder. What about the engine and transmission numbers? Also, = is the VIN located in more than one location? Lastly, if it turns out that the engine is not original, how much is the = price usually lowered? In this case, the car appears to be in excellent = condition in and out. Thanks
(back) Subject: 4 barrel intake swap From: "Steve Manktelow" <twocan@colba.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:10:45 -0500 I know that this has been covered in the past, but I can't remember all the small details. When changing from a stock 2 barrel setup, to a 4 barrel, what parts are need to be changed, and what donor years are ok. The car is a 68 350 automatic, and I have a freshly rebuilt Q jet. Thanks, Steve
(back) Subject: RE: Old Molding From: "John Clear" <jjclear@my-deja.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:32:05 -0800 Teresa My "other car" is also a TBird. Here's one place you can try. Turbo Coupes have the trim painted black and it looks pretty good = (although it doesn't hold up very well) http://www.tbirdranch.com/ >I have an 84 T-Bird besides my 68 Firebird and was wondering if you know >of a place where one can buy out of date molding - recently had the >T-Bird painted and still have the old deteriorated molding on it. Could >paint it black I guess, however, there are a few pieces that were >damaged in the accident. Thanks for your help. ------------------------------------------------------------ --=3D=3D Sent via Deja.com =3D=3D-- http://www.deja.com/
(back) Subject: Re: Big Tires From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:53:21 -0800 I bet taht will look very good Pete. Guess even Car Craft doesn't have 20" rims laying around the garage. The big jump in size once you get to a 17" rim is, I suppose at that point = the rim goes around the front ball joints, instead of outside. A gentler way to strech you inner wells is to load up the trunk, insert = a baseball bat between the fender and tire, andhave an assistant drive the = car back and forth while you guide the bat. I understand a slight tub job can = be done in a week end. Personaly, I think a 2" flare keeping the original = lines of the fenders would look very cool. With that much tire, you'll probably want a fuel cell to keep from = drying up on the corners! I was hping to find 16x8s eventualy, but if 17s fit = that much beter...Ill have to get a better job. Rowan *68 yaselskyp@webtv.net (pete) wrote: >OK straight from Car Crafts March 2000 issue. Article"Biggest Tires For >your Muscle car" >It states: >15-inch:15x8 with 4 1/2 BSing...mounting rear shocks inboard will afford >you some combos of 9 inch with 5 1/2 inch BSing. >16-inch: 16x8 with 4 1/2 inch BSg. all around rear shocks will have to >relocated inward. use 50 series or less, with section widths of 245 to >255. >17-inch: 17x with 5 1/2 BSing, front and rear. possible lower control >arm contact with some steering gears. Use tires with a ratio of 40 or >less and section widths of 245 to 255. >18-inch:18x9 with 5 1/2 inch BSing front and rear. ratio of 35 or less >with a section width of 245 to 255 for the front and 275 in the rear >Now in this article they actually fitted all these wheel tire combos on >the car. They do warn that these were Weld rims, and that all rims are a >little different so you should still measure for clearance if you use a >different brand. >My input on it....I took my car down to a local shop to have them >measure everything for me. I think I was lucky in the sense that they >were not busy or they liked the car. They put it on the rack and took >about 2 hrs out of their day to get thigs done to what I would consider >right. We test fit a few sets of tires and played with different tire >combos on the rims. All for free. This showed me that they care about >there customers or possible customers. So I will be going back once I >get ready to do the rims. >I will be able to fit 17x9's on the rear but I have to move the shock >inward of the leafspring. I alao have to grind away at the inner fender, >or take a BFH and readjust the inner wheelwell. This step is just for >tire clearance at full supension travel. >I was going to go with 17x's for the front also but decided to go with >17x8's. not much difference but I did notice that with a 5 1/2 inch >BSing it will not allow the whell to ompletely turn with out rubbing on >the frame. Their is plenty of clearance from the spindle forward for 5 >1/2 but from the spindle back yo will not get a complete turn without >hitting the frame right behind where the rubber brake line mounts. >This has only been my trials with it.Hope this has helped a little..I >will get back with the tire size I test fit that worked on the rears...I >will tell you this it wasnt close to 315's. >Oh one more thing, the hardest decision to make about relocating the >leaf springs from my understanding is that you HAVE to relocate the gas >tank. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: Big Tires From: "Landis Rogers" <rogers_landis@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:32:11 -0500 I have 255/50/16 on 16x8 with 4.25 backspace on the rear and 225/50/16 on 16x7 with 4.25 backspace. All fit fine, rear tires are inside the = quarters. Never rubs. New eaton mono leafs in the rear 67 400 Coupe _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Rims From: "Doug Nolte" <dnolte@mortgageselect.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:42:58 -0800 Can anyone tell me what the best backspacing is for 15x8 and 15x7 rims on = a 67 bird...I want to make sure they fit within the wells...Im probably = gonna get some Billet Centerlines and dont want to screw up... Any Help ??? Doug Nolte Mortgageselect, a publicly traded company (AHMH)NASDAQ Office: 800-860-4065 ext. 130 fax: 949-540-0421 efax: 603-297-1287
(back) Subject: RE: Old Molding From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:50:36 -0800 All of my local Pick-n-Pull yards usually have 4-8 of these cars at any given time. Stuff is pretty cheap there. Rowan >Teresa >My "other car" is also a TBird. Here's one place you can try. >Turbo Coupes have the trim painted black and it looks pretty good = (although >it doesn't hold up very well) > >http://www.tbirdranch.com/ > > >I have an 84 T-Bird besides my 68 Firebird and was wondering if you = know > >of a place where one can buy out of date molding - recently had the > >T-Bird painted and still have the old deteriorated molding on it. Could > >paint it black I guess, however, there are a few pieces that were > >damaged in the accident. Thanks for your help. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: RE: Big Tires From: "Mace" <macef@optonline.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:35:07 -0500 Did you get these 16's on the car without any modifications? And if so...what is the footprint (width) of the rear tires. Dosen't a 255 series tire have a huge sidewall? Macef 69 Firebird Droptop I have 255/50/16 on 16x8 with 4.25 backspace on the rear and 225/50/16 on 16x7 with 4.25 backspace. All fit fine, rear tires are inside the = quarters. Never rubs. New eaton mono leafs in the rear 67 400 Coupe
(back) Subject: Re: Engine Rebuild From: "K and J Arnold" <paintit@gate.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:48:07 -0500 Andy, As for price, I think you're right. It depends on where you are. But it shouldn't fluctuate too far, remember- parts is parts. A piston ordered from the same source shouldn't change prices crossing state lines on the UPS truck. Hourly rates may be different, but shouldn't be too far off. $4,500 sounds a little steep. You are providing everything (except the internals). Block,crank,heads,intake,carb,etc... Unless you plan on going all out on primo exspensive stuff, I think $3,500 would sound better. The idea of getting it in writing is a GOOD ONE! Also- how can someone give you a 'price', and then follow with 'not sure until we open it up' in the same sentence. Make sure you get a "not to exceed" statement, and a guarantee that the job will be completed if it does go over the stated amount. handle that part tactfully- you don't want the guy thinking you've pegged him for a liar or cheat. 95% of them are decent hardworking folks. Some other advice: Don't 'over bore', Ponchos run hot. Thin down the cylinder walls too much, and it's time for the oven mitts. Just enough to true everything up, but not over .30 Now's a GREAT time to rebuild that water pump. Make sure everything's ready for those higher RPM's and extra heat. (some people take it off,rebuild the engine, then stick it back on. Missing out on a good chance to fix it's ills.) OK- I did that once. While you're at home anxiously waiting for the engine to return, why not spend some quality time under the hood with some old tooth brushes and cleaner. Also a great time for new front end stuff like bushings,etc... The list goes on and on. I would try to keep the car at the house while the motor is at the shop (unless he can turn it around in a couple days). It's safer, and stuff can get done. It's worth the 2 trips on the roll back. That's why we have AAA. Oh- may want to do something about the oil and fuel pumps also. Don't skimp in this area. If you are planning on seriously showing the car, try to remain as stock as possible. If it's show and GO, I'd get the best out there for the application. Good luck, and let us know how it goes. Also- check with the list about breaking in the new motor. Several different theories are out there. May want to hear a couple before deciding on one. Keith 69 Convert
(back) Subject: Re: Big Tires From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@EBay.Sun.COM> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:54:13 -0800 (PST) Rowan writes: > A gentler way to strech you inner wells is to load up the trunk, = insert a >baseball bat between the fender and tire, andhave an assistant drive the = car >back and forth while you guide the bat. I understand a slight tub job = can >be done in a week end. Personaly, I think a 2" flare keeping the = original >lines of the fenders would look very cool. I've used this method to pursuade the outside lip of the wheel opening of later model cars, with thinner sheetmetal. I think that the thicker material of our older cars may offer a great deal more resistance, and might be more difficult. And if your car has descent paint, or has even been recently painted as has my car, you may want to really think twice before doing this. There is considerable risk of at least causing the paint to crack or peal off, or even creasing the metal. I can't really visualize how one could use this method for the inner wheel house. -Bob Cisneros San Jose, CA 1968 Convertible bob.cisneros@Ebay.Sun.COM
(back) Subject: Poncholet From: "Gary Patrick" <Gary@tcworks.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 19:03:09 -0500 Chris says> >Subject: 1/4 mile truck/Pontiac >From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> >Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:39:52 -0800 > I also know of a 455 in a `69/`70 Chev p/u. It ran a low >13 in the quarter.....WOW, lot of truck to get moving that >quickly. Chris ,that wouldnt happent to be an orange 70 that was around = Jacksonville was it? Gary
(back) Subject: Re: Engine & Trans removal From: "K and J Arnold" <paintit@gate.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 19:09:16 -0500 Dale A few years ago, a local body shop did a "frame off" on a 68 Bird. I saw the front rails, block,tranny, and even front tires sitting there independantly from the rest off the car. So it can obviously be done. As for how.... Your idea sounds good so far. Moving the car and not the front end makes sense. A couple BIG rolling jacks would work. (Bigger is better when trying to break bones). I wouldn't use the type that come in the box w/ the two 'Free' jack stands. Remember,also, that when things come apart, the center of gravity changes. I would double up on the stands, wood blocks, etc. You are dealing with a lot of awkward weight. Good luck- and let me know how it goes. I'm planning the same thing. Keith 69 Convert.
(back) Subject: Re: Big Tires From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@EBay.Sun.COM> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:31:07 -0800 (PST) Pete writes: >OK straight from Car Crafts March 2000 issue. Article"Biggest Tires For >your Muscle car" >It states: >15-inch:15x8 with 4 1/2 BSing...mounting rear shocks inboard will afford >you some combos of 9 inch with 5 1/2 inch BSing. >16-inch: 16x8 with 4 1/2 inch BSg. all around rear shocks will have to >relocated inward. use 50 series or less, with section widths of 245 to >255. >17-inch: 17x with 5 1/2 BSing, front and rear. possible lower control >arm contact with some steering gears. Use tires with a ratio of 40 or >less and section widths of 245 to 255. >18-inch:18x9 with 5 1/2 inch BSing front and rear. ratio of 35 or less >with a section width of 245 to 255 for the front and 275 in the rear >Now in this article they actually fitted all these wheel tire combos on >the car. They do warn that these were Weld rims, and that all rims are a >little different so you should still measure for clearance if you use a >different brand. Great response! An advisory... Before buying any wheels and tires based on any feedback you read on this topic, remember that some factors influencing what fits your specific car are things like how low the car sits, whether or not your springs are tired, and what shape the suspension parts are in. Measure your car carefully before acting. It'll save you money and aggravation. I'd like to add to this my own experience. With 15" wheels, pulling in the backspacing much more than 4.5" risks having the wheel hit the lower shock mount, at least this was the case on my '68 with staggered shocks and multileaf springs. '67s with monoleaf might me somewhat different. I special ordered 15x8 wheels for the rear with 4.75 inch backspacing, and risked having less room for side to side movement of my rear suspension. But the springs, shackles, bushings, and u bolts were all new and I assumed less play. No problems yet. But it would be smart to allow enough clearance between the tire or wheel and any part of the body or suspension. 1 inch or even a bit more could mean the difference between a cool ride and bottoming out blues. That rear axle moves around more than you might think. It looked like possibly 16 and definitely 17" wheels would clear the shock mount. As Pete mentioned, wheel brands differ and it's wise to measure carefully. Tire size affects how much clearance you really get, and it's possible to have more or less room with different sized tires. Lastly, there's the look. Most of are trying to achieve a certain look. For some, it's a wheel and tire that's tucked into the wheel well, allowing full suspension travel without rubbing or having the wheel wells cut rubberbands out of the tire sidewalls. For others, the look is defined by the biggest, fattest tire. Should it stick out, so what. That was the look back in the '70s. Airshocks, arched springs, and most common, long shackles were used to get there. Whatever the look, it will define what you mean by what fits and what doesn't. -Bob Cisneros San Jose, CA 1968 Convertible bob.cisneros@Ebay.Sun.COM
(back) Subject: Re: Ralley II paint schemes... From: "K and J Arnold" <paintit@gate.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 19:32:20 -0500 John- That's the second time you've made me laugh. Thanx. Who said car talk is ALL serious? The "pot pie didn't cook all the way through". AHhh, I'm dying. Keith 69 Convert.