First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List
Re: Transmission
by "Attila Szabo" <Attila_Sz@excite.com>
Re: Firebird-L Digest #1700
by "David Kiklis" <David_Kiklis@abtassoc.com>
Correct oil filter for 67 Firebird 400?
by <kmorrow@socket.net>
67 Deluxe interior Sail panel lights or not?
by <kmorrow@socket.net>
Interior paint.
by "John Wern" <jwern@gw.total-web.net>
'67-69 Bird Radiator
by <geebjen@att.net>
Re: Interior Paint
by "John Wern" <jwern@gw.total-web.net>
Ignition lock.
by "John Wern" <jwern@gw.total-web.net>
455 engine pieces recommendations
by "Provost, Marty" <MProvost@LiquidGolf.com>
Re: Rear View Mirror resto??? {Firebird-L Digest #1700}
by "Jeff Davis" <Jeff_Davis19@excite.com>
68 Firebird Fan Shroud
by "Malcolm Zack" <mjzack@yahoo.com>
Re: Ignition lock.
by "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@EBay.Sun.COM>
Re: Brake proportioning valve
by <David_S_Smith@amat.com>
RE: Will a 455 fit
by "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@EBay.Sun.COM>
Re: Wanting non-original seats
by "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@EBay.Sun.COM>
Re: 455 engine pieces recommendations
by <KSOS1@aol.com>
Re: Ignition lock.
by "Tom McLaughlin" <thomas.mclaughlin@wmich.edu>
Re: Interior paint.
by "Geoff Martin" <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>
Re: Interior Paint
by "Geoff Martin" <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>
Wiring Harness
by "John Wern" <jwern@gw.total-web.net>
(no subject)
by "Jason Rogers" <jason.rogers@york.com>
Re: 68 Firebird Fan Shroud
by "AL ROJAS" <amr@appsig.com>
Oil filter bypass question
by "larry diede" <ldiede@bangkok.com>
Re: Your Message Sent on Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:31:02 -0500
by "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@EBay.Sun.COM>
Re: 455 engine pieces recommendations
by "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com>
intake #s
by "lws" <lws@nextek.net>
Engine ID
by "Dereck Kowalski" <dakowals@mtu.edu>
(back)
Subject: Re: Transmission
From: "Attila Szabo" <Attila_Sz@excite.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 05:47:34 -0800 (PST)
I have three tranny's in the garage.. (2 spd, th350, th400) bought them =
off
a GTO guy along with a 389 engine... all need a rebuild, they have been
sitting there for 20-30 years. I have to find a tranny place that would
take a trade for a good (built) one. I'm keeping the one from the car in
case i ever want to convert it back to stock. Have to check with Jim
Butler's place in Jersey, and the pontiac place in MASS. (Indian =
Adventures
& Ponti-Action Racing).
Hope i can do a trade..
thanks for the info
Attila
68 350 coupe
> BTW, Why not just trade in the tranny you have now for one that
> has been built already? Same result without the wait. The one you =
have
isn't original in the car anyway right? It doesn't matter what year the
tranny is as long as it's out of a Buick, Pontiac, or Olds. Why wait for
the one you have to be rebuilt? Just my . 02
>
_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
(back)
Subject: Re: Firebird-L Digest #1700
From: "David Kiklis" <David_Kiklis@abtassoc.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 08:55:54 -0500
Jeff,
On looking at the mirror, the day/night thing seems to be
simply a spring clip behind the mirror to change the
position of the glass relative to the drivers eyes. Has
anyone tried to take their's apart and repair it? Finding a
repro mirror is not difficult, just thought it might be
cheaper to repair the glass.
Subject: Re: Rear View Mirror resto???
From: "Jeff Davis" <Jeff_Davis19@excite.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:55:51 -0800 (PST)
Yes, mine is "fading", too. Replacing the glass with
standard mirrored
glass might be OK, but you should consider that the
day/night effect would
be lost in doing that. You may want to find a day/night
mirror to replace
yours or have the original mirror re-silvered. That's the
option I might
choose if I can't find a a good quality repro at a
reasonable price.
Jeff Davis
'68 350 convertible
David Kiklis
Director of Computer Services
Abt Associates Inc.
55 Wheeler St. Cambridge MA 02138
617-520-3661 p
617-520-3640 f
(back)
Subject: Correct oil filter for 67 Firebird 400?
From: <kmorrow@socket.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:18:10 GMT
Wanted to know if anyone knew anything about PF23 AC oil filters. I ran =
across
a NOS one that is white with blue stripes and red AC logo on it. On the =
box the
only application listed is 1967 Pontiac V-8. I am sure it was superceded =
by the
PF24. The 67 Firebird parts manual supplement that is dated effective =
February
1967 lists only the PF24, the 72 Pontiac master parts catalog lists all =
PF24,
no PF23 for anything. What would be correct for a 67 bird built third week =
in
May if it just rolled off the assembly
line????
(back)
Subject: 67 Deluxe interior Sail panel lights or not?
From: <kmorrow@socket.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:26:59 GMT
Anyone out there have a 67 Bird coupe with deluxe interior? I need to know =
if
the birds actually had sail panel lights with the deluxe interior. I know =
the
Camaro deluxe interior did as I have seen them on unmolested cars. My 67
Firebird 400 has deluxe interior with the underdash brackets and bulbs =
like all
the convertibles but no sail panel lights. Someone has replaced the =
healiner
and sail panels at one time though as the material is incorrect( visors =
still
have the correct material. The restoration parts catalogs show them( =
doesn't
mean they are correct though, they are in the business of selling parts). =
If
you look in a Pontiac parts illustration manual they show them???? Where =
they
actually put on
birds???
(back)
Subject: Interior paint.
From: "John Wern" <jwern@gw.total-web.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:51:08 -0500
I'm pulling my glove box door and sainding my dash to be painted) does
anyone have experience with the exact color black that was in the '68 =
birds?
(back)
Subject: '67-69 Bird Radiator
From: <geebjen@att.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:43:12 +0000
I have a 67-69 Firebird Radiator for Automatics
in the car which is about 2 years old. It was
bought new from Classic Industries as PN 10870ANH,
which is the 3 core unit. I thinking of upgrading
to the 4 core radiator and will do that if I can
find a buyer for the old one for $100. It is in
excellent shape as the car only has about 5k miles
in good weather since I put it in.
If you are interested, e-mail me at geebjen@att.net
Oh, and the car is in winter storage so it would be
around April before I could get it out and ship it.
Steve Lothridge
(back)
Subject: Re: Interior Paint
From: "John Wern" <jwern@gw.total-web.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:06:06 -0500
Sorry you guys - I found it in the archives... Thanks anyway. John
Earlier Question - I'm pulling my glove box door and sainding my dash to =
be
painted) does
anyone have experience with the exact color black that was in the '68 =
birds?
(back)
Subject: Ignition lock.
From: "John Wern" <jwern@gw.total-web.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:17:57 -0500
Wanna hear a stupid move? I was readingg in m hadny dandy maintenance
manual about how to remove the ignition switch if you dont have a key. I
now this was discussed a year or so ago but I didnt keep any of it because =
-
well never mind that was another stupid move So I took a bit and I =
drilled.
I still couldnt pull it out. I drillled a liitle more - still no luck. =
So
I pulled out the reserves and called apon the DREMEL. To much - I got it
out but doing so I screwed up the small piece that you punch with a paper
clip in order to remove or replace the switch. I can insert the switch =
but
I cant turn clockwise 20 degrees. Anyone have any ideas?
(back)
Subject: 455 engine pieces recommendations
From: "Provost, Marty" <MProvost@LiquidGolf.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:07:01 -0500
Bob, thanks you so much for the information. I really appreciate it.
While we're on the subject, I would like recommendations for cam, head,
carb, and intake manifold for a 455 .30 over w/cast flat top pistons? I'm
looking for the most performance I can get without sacrificing the ability
to drive it often.
Thanks,
Marty
(back)
Subject: Re: Rear View Mirror resto??? {Firebird-L Digest #1700}
From: "Jeff Davis" <Jeff_Davis19@excite.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 09:57:13 -0800 (PST)
The effect that I was thinking of is from the glass itself -- I'M =
GUESSING.
If you look VERY CAREFULLY into the mirror's inside edges (sort of from =
the
side), you'll see multiple edges, like an image reflecting again and again
into infinity.
I dont't know if that's the type of glass used for the mirror to give it's
shaded night reflection when the lever is turned or if there is a clear
piece of glass in front of the mirror itself.
It makes me think that if plain mirror is used and you turn the lever for
night use, you're not going to get a rear view image, just a reflection of
the back seat.
This is a hypothesis. Anyone have a theory?
Jeff Davis
On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 08:55:54 -0500, First Generation Firebird-L wrote:
> First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List
> =
.........................................................................
>
>
>
> Jeff,
>
> On looking at the mirror, the day/night thing seems to be
> simply a spring clip behind the mirror to change the
> position of the glass relative to the drivers eyes. Has
> anyone tried to take their's apart and repair it? Finding a
> repro mirror is not difficult, just thought it might be
> cheaper to repair the glass.
>
>
> Subject: Re: Rear View Mirror resto???
> From: "Jeff Davis" <Jeff_Davis19@excite.com>
> Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:55:51 -0800 (PST)
>
> Yes, mine is "fading", too. Replacing the glass with
> standard mirrored
> glass might be OK, but you should consider that the
> day/night effect would
> be lost in doing that. You may want to find a day/night
> mirror to replace
> yours or have the original mirror re-silvered. That's the
> option I might
> choose if I can't find a a good quality repro at a
> reasonable price.
>
> Jeff Davis
> '68 350 convertible
_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
(back)
Subject: 68 Firebird Fan Shroud
From: "Malcolm Zack" <mjzack@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:22:50 -0800 (PST)
Hi all,
I am looking for a fan shroud for my 68 (new or
used). If anybody has a spare one I'd be interested
in buying it.
Thanks,
Malcolm
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Malcolm J Zack
ALIAS:*******
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
(back)
Subject: Re: Ignition lock.
From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@EBay.Sun.COM>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:29:18 -0800 (PST)
John Wern writes:
>I was readingg in m hadny dandy maintenance
>manual about how to remove the ignition switch if you dont have a key. I
>now this was discussed a year or so ago but I didnt keep any of it =
because -
>well never mind that was another stupid move So I took a bit and I =
drilled.
>I still couldnt pull it out. I drillled a liitle more - still no luck. =
So
>I pulled out the reserves and called apon the DREMEL. To much - I got =
it
>out but doing so I screwed up the small piece that you punch with a paper
>clip in order to remove or replace the switch. I can insert the switch =
but
>I cant turn clockwise 20 degrees. Anyone have any ideas?
Been there and done that. I used my Dremel to then cut off the ring
that hold the switch in place since I had a new switch and ring
to replace them. I had to cut the ring in 2 places to get it off
the switch body.
-Bob Cisneros San Jose, CA
1968 Convertible
bob.cisneros@Ebay.Sun.COM
(back)
Subject: Re: Brake proportioning valve
From: <David_S_Smith@amat.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:22:23 -0600
Didn't the 68 Firebirds have a unique proportioning valve that was not on =
other
year cars?
Does Geoff need to find the correct year proportioning valve for his car, =
or can
one from a different year work?
I just bought a disk brake system off of a 68 GTO and it looks like the =
same
proportioning valve to me, so Geoff's options might include other 68 =
Pontiacs.
Would there be other brands (chevy) that would work for him?
Meeting in California...
I am going to be in Santa Clara at the same time as Geoff and would like =
to meet
up with the bay area guys also. I remember that there was a meeting when
someone came in from Europe and that everyone met at the El Torito in =
Santa
Clara. Unfortunately, my flight was pushed out and I missed the meet-up.
If you plan on meeting up between Jan 22 and Feb 2, count me in also.
Dave
(back)
Subject: Re: Brake proportioning valve
From: "AL ROJAS" <amr@appsig.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:03:22 -0800
An early welcome to CA Geoff!
I don't know how a Ram Air car would be different from a stock '68 =
Firebird
with disk brakes.
Try Steve's Camaros. He's in San Bruno near the SF airport and about as =
close
to SF you're going to get. 1197 San Mateo Ave. 650-873-1890
If you're going to be further south, you can call GM Sports Salvage in San
Jose. 1964 Oakland Rd, San Jose. 408-432-8498. www.gmsportssalvage.com
The other guys in the area may have some ideas. We should try to meet up =
with
you. Send us your schedule.
Al
(back)
Subject: RE: Will a 455 fit
From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@EBay.Sun.COM>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:43:44 -0800 (PST)
Tim writes:
>Good info Bob, but why do you say that a 455 is heavier than a 326? If =
the
>block has the same external dimensions, the larger bore would actually =
mean
>more iron removed from the block, making it lighter than a 326. The =
crank
>is larger, so i guess it is a little heaver. I have both block and have
>carried them around. My 400 block seemed heaver than the 455, but I did
>not weigh them. Both cranks seem about the same.
Good point. In my message, I said that it was logical to
presume that the 455 weighs more than a 326, _perhaps_. The
truth is, we don't know for certain. The 455 block is a very
thinwall casting, while at least the 326 is the older thicker
casting, as is the 389, 421, and older blocks. But at least
some of the early 455s have thicker webing internally.
Since either could be heavier, it would make sense to be
at least prepared for a potentially heavier engine going
back into the car.
Ideally, it would be useful to weigh each engine (326, 350,
389, 400, 428, and 455) in the same level of dress. If you
weigh one as a long block, then weigh all the others in the
same state. But as best as we know, no one has done this.
So we are left to guessing.
-Bob Cisneros San Jose, CA
1968 Convertible
bob.cisneros@Ebay.Sun.COM
(back)
Subject: Re: Wanting non-original seats
From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@EBay.Sun.COM>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:55:12 -0800 (PST)
Chuck writes:
>>I am very interested in getting some front seats for the bird that are
>>comfy, safe and highback or have headrests. Has anyone done this or have =
a
>>brand or internet site that has seats that fit or can be made to fit?
And I wrote:
>I have Flofit seats in my car, and they are much more
>supportive and comfortable than the stockers. I found
>them via an ad in a local paper. I had to fabricate
>my own brackets, using the supplied sliders since the
>seats were purchased for a Honda Civic.
>
>It turns out that NPD (National Parts Depot) sells these
>same seats with the correct brackets for first Gen
>cars.If I'd known, I could have saved myself a lot of
>effort. But I also feel kind of satisfied at having
>fabbed my own stuff. I don't know if I could have
>bought just the brackets.
NPD wants $399.95 each for cloth covered Flofit seats,
$529.99 for vinyl, and $$899.99 for leather. There are
some additional options you can order such as lumbar
support, heating unit, and an arm rest. They will also
sell matching cover for the rear seat, $369.99 for
cloth or vinyl, $519.95 for leather. This can get to
be rather costly, but remember that Recaros start at
about $800-900 each for a perspective.
They can be reached at (805)-654-0468 for their
Ventura, California store. They also have stores in
Florida, Michigan, and North Carolina.
-Bob Cisneros San Jose, CA
1968 Convertible
bob.cisneros@Ebay.Sun.COM
(back)
Subject: Re: 455 engine pieces recommendations
From: <KSOS1@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:24:18 EST
For heads I would use edelbrock performer 87cc heads, intake either =
edelbrock
performer or performer rpm, carb is a holley or edelbrock 750( the =
edelbrock
is easier to tune in my opinion), and for a cam crane has just come out =
with
roller cams for pontiacs that have the proper distributor gear on them so =
you
can use a regular distributor. Cam size- I wouldnt go over 230 degrees
duration at .050 for the street with an automatic without the proper stall =
convertor. This setup should get u darn near 500 horse and about 550 =
ft/lbs
of torque.
(back)
Subject: Re: Ignition lock.
From: "Tom McLaughlin" <thomas.mclaughlin@wmich.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:44:31 -0500
John Wern wrote:
Hey John, My
> Wanna hear a stupid move? I was readingg in m hadny dandy maintenance
> manual about how to remove the ignition switch if you dont have a key. =
I
> now this was discussed a year or so ago but I didnt keep any of it =
because -
> well never mind that was another stupid move So I took a bit and I =
drilled.
> I still couldnt pull it out. I drillled a liitle more - still no luck. =
So
> I pulled out the reserves and called apon the DREMEL. To much - I got =
it
> out but doing so I screwed up the small piece that you punch with a =
paper
> clip in order to remove or replace the switch. I can insert the switch =
but
> I cant turn clockwise 20 degrees. Anyone have any ideas?
I have some advice John.........sell the Dremel!
Tom McLaughlin
1967 Firebird 400 Ragtop
(back)
Subject: Re: Interior paint.
From: "Geoff Martin" <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:12:01 -0500
>From the Dealer Technical Bulletins:
http://FirstGenFirebird.org/dtb/docs/68-I-12.pdf
Most good paint jobs can mix to the original codes.
Hope this helps - Geoff
'68 Mayfair Maize Firebird 350 Convertible
<http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=3D46>
<Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>
John Wern
>I'm pulling my glove box door and sainding my dash to be painted) does
>anyone have experience with the exact color black that was in the '68 =
birds?
(back)
Subject: Re: Interior Paint
From: "Geoff Martin" <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:12:39 -0500
Never know if someone has new information so no apologies needed.
Geoff
'68 Mayfair Maize Firebird 350 Convertible
<http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=3D46>
<Geoff@FirstGenFirebird.org>
John Wern
>Sorry you guys - I found it in the archives...
(back)
Subject: Wiring Harness
From: "John Wern" <jwern@gw.total-web.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:44:09 -0500
I got my engine harness w/HEI Modification and forward lamp harness
w/internal regulator hook up from M&H Electric Fabricators today. They
look very good and and fit even better. Wow what a difference it makes.
Only downfall total w/shipping $254.82 Just thought I'd let you know.
John.
(back)
Subject:
From: "Jason Rogers" <jason.rogers@york.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:31:02 -0500
Anyone on the list know where I can get a kit to change from a column =
shift
automatic to a floor shift? Specifically, my neutral safety/reverse =
lights
do not work. I need a kit that transplants the switch from the column by
the floor, into the shifter. Thanks in advance,
Jason
(back)
Subject: Re: 68 Firebird Fan Shroud
From: "AL ROJAS" <amr@appsig.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:44:45 -0800
I just bought a brand new one direct from Pontiac. It cost me about $60. =
The
stock them in Reno parts facility.
Al
(back)
Subject: Oil filter bypass question
From: "larry diede" <ldiede@bangkok.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:42:59 -0700
List members,
I have read several articals on engine buildups where plugging the oil =
filter bypass is mentioned.
My first question: Is this is a good idea for a daily driver?
Second question: If it is a good idea, how is the plugging best =
accomplished?
Thanks in advance.
Larry
-----------------------------------------------
Thailand's BEST Free Email at Bangkok.com - http://mail.bangkok.com
(back)
Subject: Re: Your Message Sent on Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:31:02 -0500
From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@EBay.Sun.COM>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:25:10 -0800 (PST)
Jason Rogers writes:
>Anyone on the list know where I can get a kit to change from a column =
shift
>automatic to a floor shift? Specifically, my neutral safety/reverse =
lights
>do not work. I need a kit that transplants the switch from the column by
>the floor, into the shifter.
I know of no such kit. You'll have to extend the wires from
the steering column area to the shifter. It shouldn't be
very difficult. Just use at least the same guage wire, and
if possible, solder the joints and terminals.
If you are using a stock shifter, you can look at the repair
manual for both the location and wiring diagram for the
switches.
-Bob Cisneros San Jose, CA
1968 Convertible
bob.cisneros@Ebay.Sun.COM
(back)
Subject: Re: 455 engine pieces recommendations
From: "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:27:54 -0600
Find some 6x heads (150 to 200 dollars) get a 67 to 71 Pontiac q-jet =
intake (35 to 50 dollars) Have the heads set up for the new Comp Cam XE274 =
get the Comp Cams 995 springs Ferrea or SI valves. Get a 67 to 71 Q jet =
750 CFM send it off for a performance add a better oil pump. Email me off =
line if you want the part numbers. You would then have enough power to =
destroy your rear end and tranny.
Frank
(back)
Subject: intake #s
From: "lws" <lws@nextek.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:40:11 -0500
any clues to tracking down stock 4 barrel intake #s,I have two,one is #
494282,dated d123,2nd is 525366??any of the 5s could be 6s,can't =
tell.dated
c187.thanks,Larry
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/free_video/
(back)
Subject: Engine ID
From: "Dereck Kowalski" <dakowals@mtu.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:55:33 -0800
What is the sure fire way to identify the difference between a 350 and a
400 WA code engine just by looking at it, or some other simple way.
Thanks,
Dereck