First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List Re: Sub frame bolt questions?? by <JGeigel@aol.com> Re: Ball Joints by <JGeigel@aol.com> Re: Camaro vs Firebird front wheel wells by <JGeigel@aol.com> Re: Assembly Books?? by <JGeigel@aol.com> Re: Sub frame connectors by "Joe Brown" <jb.pb@gte.net> Re: Camaro vs Firebird front wheel wells by "Doug" <dcharnley@mediaone.net> Re: Camaro vs Firebird front wheel wells by <JGeigel@aol.com> Re: Full Tank of Gas -- Pee-yew! by <F119flight@aol.com> Rubber Cushions by <geebjen@att.net> speed warning, how many have it ? by "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Re: Dash trim plate / Radio by "James Larson" <nordic@nycap.rr.com> Alternate Fuel Systems by "James Larson" <nordic@nycap.rr.com> Shifter Handle by "William Hewitt" <WH@choate.com> Re: Rotisserie by <BHA676@aol.com> Texas area members? by <Terry_Sare@Dell.com> Re: Matching Numbers? by "K and J Arnold" <paintit@gate.net> Re: Shifter Handle by "Geoff Martin" <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org> Re: Texas area members? by "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> Alternators by "Mark Wurtzel" <mwurtzel@flash.net> Re: Texas area members? by "Kevin Young" <kyoung@sagelink.net> Re: Coolant recovery tank by "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@EBay.Sun.COM> Re: Alternators by "R & P" <Ronsoy@bellsouth.net> Re: Coolant recovery tank by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Re: A/C and Green Wire and A/C muffler by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com>
(back) Subject: Re: Sub frame bolt questions?? From: <JGeigel@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:58:51 EST John, Under your seat pan, there should be another brace about 7 inches wide and = its length is the width of the seat pan you are referring to. Attached to = that brace is a cage that contains a nut that is about 2" by 1.5" (from memory). There is no way that nut should come loose. It does have some = play in it though to adjust the frame. I cut that brace and seat pan out to replace the floorboards not too long ago, so I know all about this. In = fact, one of the seat pedestals still needs to be welded in. If I were you, I would drill out the spot welds on the seat pedestal with a spot weld = cutter. It will take about 1 to 3 hours to do this depending on your skill and = how fast you spot all of the welds. Once the pedestal is removed, make your repairs and go. Let me know if you need more help. I can take pictures if necessary and email them to you within 2 days. You will need a welder to reverse the process Joe Geigel I will be replacing my body bushing shortly. And have a problem. They are very bad the pass. Side rear bushing is GONE ... upper and lower. And bolt = is loose the previous owner (pre Aug. 00) broke the factory nut loose. The = car is a 67 coupe the interior in removed so the seat plate thing is in the = way. I can drill the nut off (or the head form the bottom but than what?? I = can't weld in that little access slot in the seat plate gusset. I really need you guy's help on this one. John Costello
(back) Subject: Re: Ball Joints From: <JGeigel@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:09:24 EST Dean, Find a new control arm. These are relatively plentiful. Joe Geigel
(back) Subject: Re: Camaro vs Firebird front wheel wells From: <JGeigel@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:13:21 EST Roy, Thanks for the tip. Joe Geigel n a message dated 1/23/2001 4:15:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com writes: << Funny how some of these topics are so timely. I just finished modifying = a left side (driver's side) Firebird fenderwell to work on my 68 RS Camaro. The good news is that there is more material to work with on the Camaro fenderwells and you can easily trim them to look just like the Firebirds. = In fact, what I found was the Firebird fenderwells had all the required = dimples that marked where all the holes needed to be drilled to bolt all the RS stuff. Obviously, the just used one die to stamp both the Firebird and = the Camaro fenderwells and then modified them as needed. The difference is in the very front, in front of the radiator support. So, even if you didn't = do a perfect job it would be next to impossible to see. Hope this helps, Roy >>
(back) Subject: Re: Assembly Books?? From: <JGeigel@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:11:19 EST Last year I contacted the publisher of the reproduction Camaro and other = year Firebird assembly manuals. He claimed a complete manual was never used at = the plants. Jim Mattison, any truth to this??? Joe Geigel
(back) Subject: Re: Sub frame connectors From: "Joe Brown" <jb.pb@gte.net> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:18:39 -0800 John : Summit has them , I bought Lakewood bolt ons , bolted them on than got them welded in . Worked great Joe I also used polygraphite bushings , very stiff , noisy . But they make the car handle like a magnet .
(back) Subject: Re: Camaro vs Firebird front wheel wells From: "Doug" <dcharnley@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:40:02 -0500 Almost every resto-house sells these fender wells. They are not hard to = find. I'm getting my pair from Ames. Going to pick them up myself since = shipping is $100 for the pair. Doug R & P wrote: > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > I thought Classic industries sells the fender wells in GM and Repro? > > Ron >
(back) Subject: Re: Camaro vs Firebird front wheel wells From: <JGeigel@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:22:01 EST Ron, To the best of my knowledge, these are Camaro wheel wells that need = trimming to fit a firebird. Joe Geigel First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... I thought Classic industries sells the fender wells in GM and Repro? Ron
(back) Subject: Re: Full Tank of Gas -- Pee-yew! From: <F119flight@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:45:29 EST In a message dated 1/23/01 6:05:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, = saltyd@home.com writes: << Jeff I would start with the rubber connector between the fill opening = and the opening of the tank. >> I would go with Scott on this one. Presumably you have crawled under and looked for visible leaks (with a flash light NOT a plug in light). I have = the same condition in my 68 convertible and have a new tank to put in along = with the new rubber fill pipe coupling (can see the cracks in it). Are the = fumes strong in the trunk when you open it after filling the tank?
(back) Subject: Rubber Cushions From: <geebjen@att.net> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:40:00 -0500 I'm trying to find out more about the rubber cusions that go between the outer headlight bezels and the fenders on '69 birds. It looks to me like there orignally were 3 pieces here. One on each size behind the outer headlight bezels, and a middle one that goes behind the fiberglass piece behind the bumper. I called Ames today and they said that the two outer ones are being reproduced and should be available for approx $75 each in 1-2 months. However, they didn't seem to know anything about the center strip one, and I can't find it in any catalogs. Does anyone know of a place to buy this piece? And am I nuts? They DID come with a piece ther right? Steve Lothridge
(back) Subject: speed warning, how many have it ? From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:53:52 -0800 I know a lot of you out there have PHS doc's on your car's. How many were actually equipped with speed warning from the factory ? I was told they were common on the bigger car's, even though I've never seen one. I also have never looked that close for them as well. Anyway, I was curious how many Bird's came with that option. I'm guessing not many, but that's why I'm asking. Thanks all. Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top
(back) Subject: Re: Dash trim plate / Radio From: "James Larson" <nordic@nycap.rr.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:59:15 -0500 on 1/23/01 12:08 AM, SteveBrady1@aol.com at SteveBrady1@aol.com wrote: > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > How much butchering do you have to do to the dash to fit a DIN radio in? > > > Steve Brady > 68 400 Convertible > SteveBrady1@aol.com > My Firebird Site: > http://members.nbci.com/srb/ Yeah man, this sucks I did it... it was only after that when I saw a 68 camaro with a neat looking mounting kit that leveled out the radio = obviously with some modification to the dash still but the trim plate looked good = and all. I made brackets out of aluminum angle iron, still trying to get it = all looking good. -- James Larson, ETN2 USN Saratoga Springs, NY 1968 White Firebird 400 Coupe
(back) Subject: Alternate Fuel Systems From: "James Larson" <nordic@nycap.rr.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:29:55 -0500 Alrighty, found this in the Holley catalog. Looks like I can get a "Pro-Jection" system. Bolts on to stock and aftermarket carb intakes. Comes with a pump and all the control circuits/computer that it needs. Sounds like a great system for those of us looking for better reliability = in our daily drivers. At about $700 it seems worth it to me... Anyone hear anything else about it? I'm lookin at getting the 900cfm 4 barrel rated = for motors producing 350-500 HP... -- James Larson, ETN2 USN Saratoga Springs, NY 1968 White Firebird 400 Coupe
(back) Subject: Shifter Handle From: "William Hewitt" <WH@choate.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:32:36 -0500 I have an automatic transmission with the shift on the floor. I recently = purchased a shifter handle (both the metal lower piece and the plastic top = piece) since when I purchased my car it had none. The plastic top doesn't = sit too well since the shifter pole has an indent where the lower metal = piece of the handle screws in. I am also not real happy with the look of = the plastic. My question is whether anyone with the automatic transmission floor shift = uses a shifter handle assembly that is different from what I described = above? I am interested in something that looks good and gets away from = that cheap-looking plastic piece. Any thoughts (and especially pictures) = would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot. Bill Hewitt 68 350 HO Convertible
(back) Subject: Re: Rotisserie From: <BHA676@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:50:46 EST could i get a copy also brad 67 400 convert
(back) Subject: Texas area members? From: <Terry_Sare@Dell.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:22:50 -0600 Out of idle curiosity, how many members are from Austin, TX and = surrounding areas? terry -----Original Message----- From: Frank Zeller [mailto:fzeller@tri-austin.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 2:03 PM To: Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Subject: Re: 69 firebird for sale (not running) To bad you not in Texas Frank
(back) Subject: Re: Matching Numbers? From: "K and J Arnold" <paintit@gate.net> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:58:51 -0500 FramAir- Lets assume that not everyone out there is handy with a set of chisels and a number stamp set. Or crooked enough to use them. A car is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. I'm willing to pay more for an original car. Some will pay more for a 428 or 455 powered car because that's what they want. It's not original, but they're happy. And that's why we do this in the first place. I looked at Judges, Judge clones, GTOs and LeMans GTO clones, before getting my Bird. Some of the owners claimed they were clones, some didn't. The ones that admitted to a cloning were much more real as people than their cars. The ones who continued to lie (even when asked several deal breaking questions) were just scumbags who don't deserve to be in this hobby. If #s matching doesn't make a difference in car price, why do people go to great lengths to prove it is #s matching, and why do crooked people go to great illegal lengths to fake them? As for faking Firebirds- When the #s matching original is worth 16k, and a clean non-numbers correct is worth 9k. Whos going to jail over 7k nowadays? Isn't worth it. Now I know there are more pricey models of our birds out there that are limited production, etc... (I think of NOAA Joes RA2 convert) that bring higher dollar amounts, but lets face it, these are birds. Not big block Vettes from the 60s, or Shelbys, etc... The overall car line of 1st Gen Birds doesn't bring in the same dough. Yet- Hence the importance of #s matching, the jewel in the rough. When these cars do come of age price wise (and they will), wouldn't you like to be holding a #s matching car in the garage? Or better yet- driving one! We've covered a lot of this ground in the past, so no need to go on. There's a lot of subjectivity in the car hobby, the key is to look at the overall picture and get a feel for where you are on the evolutionary scale. Birds fit in the scale somewhere, and I feel they're about to claw past the Cramos and get closer to their big brother Goats in value. Remember the 65 Mustang? 10 years ago everybody had to have one. Now I think they're planting flowers in the trunks. The Bird is a muscle car whos time has come- Keith 69 Convert. Original fuel pumped car ;)
(back) Subject: Re: Shifter Handle From: "Geoff Martin" <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:53:51 -0500 Sounds like what I have on my '68 automatic. I finally glued the plastic part onto the shifter pole since it never wanted to stay. Geoff '68 Mayfair Maize Firebird 350 Convertible <http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=3D46> <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org> William Hewitt >a shifter handle (both the metal lower piece and the plastic top piece) >since when I purchased my car it had none. The plastic top doesn't sit >too well since the shifter pole has an indent where the lower metal piece = >of the handle screws in. I am also not real happy with the look of the >plastic.
(back) Subject: Re: Texas area members? From: "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:57:05 -0600 7 on my list. 3 Austin (including me) and one that works at Dell to. 1 San Antonio 1 Dallas 1 Spring 1 Killeen We all need to meet someday. So we can corrupt each other :0) Frank >>> Terry_Sare@Dell.com 01/24/01 10:22AM >>> First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... Out of idle curiosity, how many members are from Austin, TX and = surrounding areas? terry -----Original Message----- From: Frank Zeller [mailto:fzeller@tri-austin.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 2:03 PM To: Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Subject: Re: 69 firebird for sale (not running) To bad you not in Texas Frank
(back) Subject: Alternators From: "Mark Wurtzel" <mwurtzel@flash.net> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:06:59 -0800 I'm interested in hearing about any experiences people have had with alternators. I installed a single wire one with my new motor and it lasted all of about 10 miles! I am absolutely certain that it is hooked up correctly. It was charging when it was first installed (I checked with a multimeter), but = the "GEN" light came on after only a few minutes of driving (+ a good 30 = minutes of stationary running). Visually it appears fine, but has zero output. The alternator was a $20 Kragen (west coast discount auto parts chain) rebuilt special. While it has a lifetime guarantee, I do not what to make = a habit out of swapping alternators! In the past I've used this same sort = of alternator in various cars/trucks/etc with no problems so I did not = hesitate to put it on the Firebird. I'm curious if I have been incredibly lucky in the past (alternators on other cars) or just incredibly unlucky with this one! So what have people found that works and/or doesn't? Thanks, Mark 1968 455 convert.
(back) Subject: Re: Texas area members? From: "Kevin Young" <kyoung@sagelink.net> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:06:23 -0600 Killeen Tx about 1hour north of Frank and 1 1/2 south of Pete. and about = 3 hours north of Wayne. (driving times will vary depending upon which vehicle I am in) haahaahaa Thanks Kevin kyoung@sagelink.net http://www.n-link.com/~kyoung Never go to a doctor whose office plants have died. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Terry_Sare@Dell.com> To: <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:22 AM Subject: Texas area members? > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Out of idle curiosity, how many members are from Austin, TX and surrounding > areas? > > terry > -----Original Message----- > From: Frank Zeller [mailto:fzeller@tri-austin.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 2:03 PM > To: Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com > Subject: Re: 69 firebird for sale (not running) > > > To bad you not in Texas > > Frank
(back) Subject: Re: Coolant recovery tank From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@EBay.Sun.COM> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:01:25 -0800 (PST) Cork writes: >Al; > Thanks for the response. I'm really not talking about a CA built = car, >but a CA delivered car. I have documentation that shows mine was sold in = CA >upon assembly. Many cars were built at the two plants, but only a few = were >delivered to CA. I'm not trying to say I'm not wrong, but as far as I can = >determine, my car is totally originally. I'm the third owner. I know = the >second owner's widow. I do not know the first owner. If a modification = was >accomplished, it sure looks damn professional and I do not have a paper = trail >(as I do with everything else that has happened to the car) to suggest a >modification. In the world of proving the originality of a car or its parts, it actually works the other way. Being able to document what is (or should be) there. In the case of your coolant recovery tank, it would take a part number, factory photo or drawing (as in an assembly, service, or chassis manual), or manufacturer's promotional literature. Modifications aren't always documented, and can happen to even the most original looking car. Almost any reason would have motivated someone to add this to keep the radiator overflow from dumping on the ground. The earliest reference to a coolant recovery tank in my parts books is for the 1973 model year, though there is also a reference to a coolant recovery system package (?) for the 1971-73 model years. This makes finding documentation harder to prove. What would it take to be sure that your car rolled off the assembly line with that tank? A part number on the item itself, or a notation in the PHS billing docs that indicate some special engine cooling feature (as in Cal. mandated). The build sheet, if found, would also be proof. Could it be dealer added? Certainly possible. But to prove that, you'd need a notation in the bill of sale or other documentation that was handed to the buyer indicating that this was done. Personally, I'd like to see this proven to be a rare but actual factory feature. It would be most cool to know that someone among us has found this on on his car. But it would require proof to make it so. Al Rojas' car is, if I'm not mistaken, a California built and delivered car. It is one of the best preserved original cars I've ever seen, and loaded with lots of options. He's even got the original window sticker! -Bob Cisneros San Jose, CA 1968 Convertible bob.cisneros@Ebay.Sun.COM
(back) Subject: Re: Alternators From: "R & P" <Ronsoy@bellsouth.net> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:42:00 -0500 Of course we would tell you to use a BRAND NEW unit Mark but if you don't need to you don't need to, If you have a problem you said it your self its one wire just change it, the unit probably passed the testes they put on = it and just failed after being put into commission....20 bucks huh...Doesn't sound like they pay their employees very much to take there time...Hey = worst case you might do it twice, just make sure its not to tight on the belt. Ron
(back) Subject: Re: Coolant recovery tank From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:46:54 -0800 I don't have one, the nipple from the radiator top is missing, and I know = it will be a challenge to solder a new one in without inadvertantly = unsoldering the filler from the radiator. I have been consitering JB Weld, since duct = tape sounds wrong here. Anyway, Ive noticed post 71 Nova cars, have a form fitin tank on the front of the fenderwell. For a hideaway install, F@rds of a similar = vintage used a black bag on a hangar that could easily dissapear under the fender. Rowan *68 >From: Glenn Uettwiller <birdman@gdi.net> >Mark, coolant tanks weren't used until 1971 on GM cars. Anything you see >before then IS a generic cheap-looking barfcan. It is a good idea, but >if you cannot adapt a more factory looking part from another GM car of >early 70's vintage, then maybe you can hide it somewhere. > >Glenn aka birdman > > > > Hello all: > > > > I've looked through my manual but cannot seem to find any reference to = a > > coolant recovery tank being used on a '68 Firebird. Did they come = with >one, > > or were offered as an option? > > > > I've just finished installing a new radiator in my '68 and want to use = >one > > with it. I figured if there was a stock or optional item that would = be >the > > easiest, and nicest looking, way to go. > > > > If not, has anyone on the list added one and can you provide me with = any > > details of the project? I'd prefer to use something a bit nicer than >the > > typical generic discount auto store ones I've seen offered. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Mark > > 1968 convertible _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: A/C and Green Wire and A/C muffler From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:56:56 -0800 Yes, the green wire that to the "hot" side of the compressor clutch is a long running GM tradition. Some newer systems have a 2 pin conector to a pressure switch near the evaporator as well. As for the muffler doohickey, I think some Caddys with the v6 = (long)type compressor have one. If you switch to the newer rotary(more alternator shaped) pump which weighs maybe 1/3 as much, those run quieter, but would need a mount fabbed. I have seen the newer pumps working on old A/C systems, but am not sure how the fittings work out. I can find out in a = day or two If somone wants specifics. >John, > >I have a green wire that is the "hot" side of the compressor clutch. >Hope that helps. > >Bob Trimpe > > >John Wern wrote: > > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List >...................................................................... > > Could someone with A/C please look at their car and tell me what the >green > > wire coming from the A/C harness goes to? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com