First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List Re: Dash trim plate / Radio by <BradyEsch@aol.com> Re: Alternate Fuel Systems by <BradyEsch@aol.com> Re: Alternate Fuel Systems by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Re: Full Tank of Gas -- Pee-yew! by "scott" <saltyd@home.com> RE: Alternate Fuel Systems by "Tim Marcinek" <marcts@ga.prestige.net> Re: Coolant recovery tank by "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Corkya Re: i rebuilt the carb and now it leaks..[2] by "Pete D" <pjd805@yahoo.com> RE: speed warning, how many have it ? by "Bryan & Mone' Young" <bryandmo@home.com> Re: speed warning, how many have it ? by "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Freddy Re: Sub frame bolt questions?? by "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Studde Re: Sub frame bolt questions?? by "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Studde Re: Sub frame connectors by "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Studde Re: Sub frame bushing by "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Studde Re: Assembly Books?? by "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Studde Re: Ball Joints by "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Studde Re: Firebird-L Digest #1714 by "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Studde Re: Texas area members? by "Ferguson Christopher" <cscottfergus@earthlink.net> Re: Rubber Cushions by "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Paddy6 Re: speed warning, how many have it ? by "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Paddy6
(back) Subject: Re: Dash trim plate / Radio From: <BradyEsch@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:43:37 EST Speaking of in-dash radios, I thought I'd share my past experience with = what this can do to attract mischief: Back in 1990, when I lived in San Diego, I had a red '67 326 convertible = and a red '68 400 convertible. Both had stock radios. I had the 326 for = about 3 years, and the 400 for about 1.5 years, at the time. My roommate = really liked the cars and wanted a 400 convertible also. I found him a = nice red '67 400 convertible, which he bought. The previous owner of my roommate's car had put in a factory radio delete = plate, and hung a removable CD player under the dash in a pod that was = visible. My roommate always pulled that radio out of the car when it was = parked. In the first six months he owned the car, his car was broken into twice = (razor blade into the top, put on new top, gets cut again). My cars were = 30 feet away both times and were untouched, and have never been broken = into (including my current '68 400 convertible also with stock radio). = <sound of knocking on wood> My recommendation is to do everything possible to retain the stocker in = the dash if you have it. Brady Esch
(back) Subject: Re: Alternate Fuel Systems From: <BradyEsch@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:58:17 EST I have only heard second-hand information about the Holley Pro-Jection = Fogger, and it was not complimentary. I was considering exactly the same = swap, as it sounds like a great way to get fuel injection with a stock = look. I have noticed what seems to be a conspicuous lack of interest in = these units. I assume that if they were the greatest thing going then we = would hear a lot about them, seeing them on cars in Hot Rod and Car Craft. = It doesn't seem that they have knocked carbs off the hill. I'm curious what the other list members may have to say. It seems like it = would be a great way to go, but only if it works real well. Brady Esch
(back) Subject: Re: Alternate Fuel Systems From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:11:29 -0500 DOh! had a mini power outage while attempting to respond, but my system seems to have survived. Now lets see, where was I? Also required for EFI conversion, Th efuel tank should be adjusted to use a sealing gas cap, and evaporative controls, also a fuel return line wil be required. Id use the original fuel line as the return, and make a new larger line for the suply side. As far as performance per dollar, Im not so sure. I haven't seen anything about the "Pro-Jection" that would make it superior to the Rochester TBI system used by GM. A good TBI motor, or even a running car with TBI can be had for $700 these days(even an occasional TPI) You could swap the injection components to your motor, and sell the long block to offset your cost. If you found an oft maligned '84 or '85 crossfire injection setup (f-body and corvette), thats a TBI using two 2bbl throttle bodys, and mounted it to a tunnel ram intake, I bet that would look pretty slick. My personal take on the matter is the best ways to go are either buy a 305-350 injected firebird(or GMC or camaro) motor with the overdrive trans, and install the whole package. $1400-1750 at GM sports salvage, and they even pull the stuff and load it on your truck if you wait around 3 or 4 hours. They sell a TBI complete for $500. Or even better, take an aproach more like Jason Maynard, fitting TPI to your Poncho motor. TPI inherently outperforms throttle body systems in every way. A sequential system should preform better than the original Chevy TPI which fires 4 injectors at a time, left bank, right bank, left.... My Brother swapped an injected motor into his Triumph, and it is a blast to drive, and starts every time. *lucas turns over in his grave* You can see pics and his write up here http://www.cruzers.com/~rfm/car/index.html Ive participated in a few GM injected into older GM vehicle swaps, and it is realy not much harder than changing the motor in the injected donor vehicle. Results have all been good, these are daily driven cars, not drag racers. Putting the 350 block under the 305 injection and heads was less than spectacular, but still runs fairly well if you don't tow too much (a model A over the grapevine was too much). Choose carefuly, and talk to one or more people running the setup, Its a big expense, and significant downtime. Rowan*68 'Take my advice, Im not using it' > > Alrighty, found this in the Holley catalog. Looks like I can get >a >"Pro-Jection" system. Bolts on to stock and aftermarket carb >intakes. >Comes with a pump and all the control circuits/computer that ?>it needs. >Sounds like a great system for those of us looking for >better = reliability >in our daily drivers. At about $700 it seems worth >it to me... Anyone >hear anything else about it? I'm lookin at >getting the 900cfm 4 barrel >rated >for > > motors producing 350-500 HP... > > -- > > James Larson, ETN2 USN > > Saratoga Springs, NY > > 1968 White Firebird 400 Coupe _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: Full Tank of Gas -- Pee-yew! From: "scott" <saltyd@home.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:17:42 -0500 Please remember to use a brass punch to tap it loose, you don't want to make any sparks around a gas tank full of fumes. > Looks like you probably found your leak. There is a rubber sending unit > gasket at the top of the tank as you described. You'll probably need a = new > one and a new locking ring by the time you persuade it to come off (tap = it > counter clockwise). Replacements are available from Classic Industries = for
(back) Subject: RE: Alternate Fuel Systems From: "Tim Marcinek" <marcts@ga.prestige.net> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:46:20 -0500 I have not heard of this system, but I have read about pretty much custom systems for pontiacs and they are in the multiple thousands of $. There are quite a few people who seem to say they want fuel injection for reliabiliy, but it is not dificult to have a very reliable system with a carb. So I really don't know what they are talking about. Effiecency, yes, but reliability? I don't agree tim
(back) Subject: Re: Coolant recovery tank From: "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Corkyandjane@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:28:56 -0500 Bob; I found the build sheet when I was cleaning the interior. It was under the padding on the front passenger seat. I am not a historian by any means. This does sound like an interesting quest. Give me some time. The bird is in its winter sleep right now. There is a chance I'm totally off base here, but the installation is just too perfect to suggest other than original. How about other 68 owners out there that have the return gas line and extra emission modifications? Anyone have all the extras without the recovery tank? Does anyone have an unexplained hole on the front side of the drivers inner front fender? I do not take offense to any doubt. This is the only medium to relay learn the facts. Cork 68 - 350 - Plain Jane
(back) Subject: Re: i rebuilt the carb and now it leaks..[2] From: "Pete D" <pjd805@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:22:24 -0500 Jeff, No, I was referring to vacuum checked at the manifold. I don't have the TVS installed, but have considered putting it back on for originality. I just run ported vacuum to my distributor. I've recently removed [all of] the choke mechanism because it doesn't work well with the cross-over in the manifold blocked. I can produce more power with a cooler manifold, but it is harder to start. I'll have to design a manual choke or just drive on warm days... Cheers, PeteJD [69 400/400] Subject: Re: i rebuilt the carb and now it leaks.. From: "Jeff Davis" <Jeff_Davis19@excite.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:15:59 -0800 (PST) Pete, The vacuum that you speak of -- is that affected by the TVS that has been discussed recently? The one (ported vac. switch) on mine is missing and I wonder if that's the biggest casue of my problems. Thanks for the advice you gave. I'll take it into consideration when I get around to working on that problem. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/
(back) Subject: RE: speed warning, how many have it ? From: "Bryan & Mone' Young" <bryandmo@home.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:22:52 -0500 Our car has one. Bryan 68 Firebird droptop -----Original Message----- From: Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com [mailto:Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com]On Behalf Of Chris Porter Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 8:54 PM To: First Generation Firebird-L Subject: speed warning, how many have it ? First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... I know a lot of you out there have PHS doc's on your car's. How many were actually equipped with speed warning from the factory ? I was told they were common on the bigger car's, even though I've never seen one. I also have never looked that close for them as well. Anyway, I was curious how many Bird's came with that option. I'm guessing not many, but that's why I'm asking. Thanks all. Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top
(back) Subject: Re: speed warning, how many have it ? From: "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Freddy3spd@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:04:03 -0500 Count me having one. 67 cammer sprint 4bbl 3.8L
(back) Subject: Re: Sub frame bolt questions?? From: "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Studderin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:14:34 -0500 <<<<<<< In one of the autumn 2000 issues of HPP they described this operation. They cut a hole just above the nut in the cross member to access the nut. Then welded back the cup that holds the nut. If you then want to weld the patch back to hide the nut is up to you, I mean the carpet and seat will cover this area. The car they did this to was a second gen. but I suppose our cars are similar in design. If needed I can see if I can find that magazine and fax you a copy (no scanner).>>>>>>> /Niklas I also have that article it's on a Sen. gen. car. On my 67 coupe there's a brace with long slots in it that the seats bolt to. It's welded in looks to be a very stuctual part of the body, the rear subframe bolt (caged nut) is under one of the slots only 3/4 inch. wide so you do any welding thought the slot in the brace. The pass. side firewall bolt is also loose (the cage is spread). I put the car on jack stands it took the weight it.... There a large trapezoid shaped opening it the firewall to fix it. The scaring thing is the previous owner was driving it like this!!!!! So nobody has any (tricks) without cutting the brace out?? Speaking of HPP when is the next one coming out If been checking it mail for weeks hoping to get it? :( I'm not ready to fit the cage nuts yet, still have to get bushing, subframe connector, new lines, scrape the under side etc. ect. I called Currier ( a rearend shop ) got a estimate for a ford 9' w/locker diff. $$$1,900$$$. speed cost money, I'm starting to see this. Thank for everones help. John Costello
(back) Subject: Re: Sub frame bolt questions?? From: "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Studderin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:21:21 -0500 In a message dated 1/24/01 3:55:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, JGeigel@aol.com writes: << John, Under your seat pan, there should be another brace about 7 inches wide and its length is the width of the seat pan you are referring to. Attached to that brace is a cage that contains a nut that is about 2" by 1.5" (from memory). There is no way that nut should come loose. It does have some play in it though to adjust the frame. I cut that brace and seat pan out to replace the floorboards not too long ago, so I know all about this. In fact, one of the seat pedestals still needs to be welded in. If I were you, I would drill out the spot welds on the seat pedestal with a spot weld cutter. It will take about 1 to 3 hours to do this depending on your skill and how fast you spot all of the welds. Once the pedestal is removed, make your repairs and go. Let me know if you need more help. I can take pictures if necessary and email them to you within 2 days. You will need a welder to reverse the process Joe Geigel >> Thanks joe I kind off was seeing this but was hopeing there was a easyer way. My floor is good so I may just cut a hole out ( of the brace between the slots ) and not the whole brace. I'll have to look at it more. thanks John Costello
(back) Subject: Re: Sub frame connectors From: "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Studderin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:36:19 -0500 In a message dated 1/24/01 4:17:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, jb.pb@gte.net writes: << John : Summit has them , I bought Lakewood bolt ons , bolted them on than got them welded in . Worked great Joe I also used polygraphite bushings , very stiff , noisy . But they make the car handle like a magnet . >> Joe I've seen other cars that weld in the bolt on ones and they are strait boxed tubing they don't conture the the floor so they hang down relly low to clear the rear footwell bumps. This is what I am trying to avoid. The U-shaped chanal one's conture to the floor nice and tight and the floor of the car is actally the top of the open chanal after you weld them in, like the rear framerails are. These one's by SSM need to more the leave spings in and I don't have to, That alot of custom work. I was just thinking?? Wouldn't you melt the bushing welding to the end of the subframe???? Thanks everone John Costello
(back) Subject: Re: Sub frame bushing From: "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Studderin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:46:38 -0500 In a message dated 1/23/01 9:05:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, fzeller@tri-austin.com writes: << I like them. Tighten the car up but they transfer a lot of road noise. Frank >> Frank by road noise the they squeak? Have you ever had yours squeek/sqwack, and how long have you had them in ? This is the main complaint I've heard squeaking. I want the make the car more ridged and they supposedly last longer then rubber but I don't know anyone that has had them over 3 yrs. so it could be hype? thanks\ John Costello
(back) Subject: Re: Assembly Books?? From: "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Studderin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:04:29 -0500 In a message dated 1/23/01 11:06:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, kadonny@hotmail.com writes: << John: Those "books" are called the Factory Assembly Manuals. There has been threads on this in the past, and here is what I believe is the current situation on these. Copies of the 1967 and 1968 Assembly manuals have been "rumored" to be around, although many of us on the list have been looking for them for a couple of years and so far copies have not turned up. 1969 Assembly manuals are readily available in major catalogs like YO, Ames etc. Maybe this is a good time to recheck the list, but I would not be optomistic about finding one. The other major reference manual for assembling is the shop manual. This is not nearly the detail that the Assembly manual is, but it helps a ton. The thing I did was purchase a Camaro (I know.....taboo but the only option) Assembly manual. It is not exact especially with interior, trim, etc. but it gives you good info on suspension, major body panels and so on. If anyone has dug up any of the 67 or 68 assembly manuals, please..please let us know. Hope this helps. Keith 68 H.O. >> Keith my friend has one a Bootlegged for his 69 chevlle, it's a Xerox copied block about 2 inch. Thick just loose Xerox'd pages is semi order for $20 It's priceless. I have one of the many Camro Reastion handbooks 67-81 with a red 6? and a blue 71-74 on the cover it's O.K. Paraghafe on fenders, one on front seats couple of pics on ever few pages. Isn't the shop manual pretty much just service and maitiance?? The over priced Year one catlog is good for pics and parts to look up. So a Guess this as close as it gets for firebirds. John Costello
(back) Subject: Re: Ball Joints From: "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Studderin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:11:31 -0500 In a message dated 1/23/01 4:55:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, DLarson@IDENTIFIX.com writes: << All, I started the process of changing the lower ball-joints and noticed that on one side the ball-joint was welded to the control arm. I can't imagine what would have to happen so the weld was required (probably don't want to know). So the question becomes, do I weld the new one in, or find a new lower control arm? Does anyone have one? Thanks in advance, ~Dean Larson '69 Coupe >> Dean are you sure it's a not factory ball joint, they were riveted on. Than you just drill the heads off or chisel heads off. This is just what came to mind. John Costello
(back) Subject: Re: Firebird-L Digest #1714 From: "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Studderin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:33:12 -0500 In a message dated 1/25/01 1:01:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, brett@cisdirect.com writes: << I checked ebay and found a few reproductions of Fisher Body Manuals. They cover a lot of the materials that the Assembly manuals have, altough I don't think they would be as complete, they are better than noting. At about $20 on ebay... Here is the description from one of the auctions. I just searched for "Firebird Manual" and found at least four of these! Hope this helps! - Brett - firstgenbirdman ___________________________________________________________________________= _ ____ 1967 Firebird Fisher Body Service Manual This manual covers the GM product line except Corvette. It measures 8x10 has about 400 pages including a set of wiring diagrams for each different car make and is divided into 13 sections. They include underbody, convertible top, windshield wiper system, front end, doors, rear quarters, rear end, roof, seats, electrical with diagrams, exterior mouldings and restraint systems. This is the other half of GMs car manuals that completes the full coverage set of books for GM cars. This is a high quality reprint printed with GMs permission and is identical to the original. $19.95. High Bidder is required to add $5.95 for shiping and handling. >> <<<<<<<<< Thanks, Brett I have a 78 pontiac fisher book and remember me and dad useing it for his 75 TA and it was quite helpfull. I'll need to got a 67 know That I remenber about it. Thanks One a side note I REALLY WISH THAT IF SOME INDIVIDAL THAT HAD A PUPLE RESTORED 67 Ram Air firebird AND KNEW OF THE ASSABLY MANNUALS WOULD SHARE IT ........... PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! John Costello
(back) Subject: Re: Texas area members? From: "Ferguson Christopher" <cscottfergus@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 00:10:55 -0500 Houston TX 1967 400 Conv. 1989 Formula 350 Scott
(back) Subject: Re: Rubber Cushions From: "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Paddy68@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:01:42 -0500 I'm trying to find out more about the rubber cusions that go between the outer headlight bezels and the fenders on '69 birds. It looks to me like there originally were 3 pieces here. One on each size behind the outer headlight bezels, and a middle one that goes behind the fiberglass piece behind the bumper. I called Ames today and they said that the two outer ones are being reproduced and should be available for approx $75 each in 1-2 months. However, they didn't seem to know anything about the center strip one, and I can't find it in any catalogs. Does anyone know of a place to buy this piece? And am I nuts? They DID come with a piece ther right? Steve Lothridge Steve, It sounds like you're talking about the "Chevron" that goes in between the two headlight bezels. When I worked for Bills Birds he was buying repro pieces. That was seven years ago so I'm not sure if they are still available but give him a call. (631) 667-3853. I know they are hard to come by used. They were very brittle and would crack whenever the front bumper took a little hit. Good luck. Pat A
(back) Subject: Re: speed warning, how many have it ? From: "by way of Geoff Martin, <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org>" <Paddy68@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:07:50 -0500 I know a lot of you out there have PHS doc's on your car's. How many were actually equipped with speed warning from the factory ? I was told they were common on the bigger car's, even though I've never seen one. I also have never looked that close for them as well. Anyway, I was curious how many Bird's came with that option. I'm guessing not many, but that's why I'm asking. Thanks all. Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top I ripped apart 100-150 parts car birds in my 10 years at Bills Birds and I think I only came across 5 or 6 of them in that time. Sort of rare or just on all the non parts cars out there. LOL Some other rare options were power front driver seat, 67-8 tilt wheel, power trunk, 69 step gauges (went where the clock is), power steering cooler, and the speed indicator.