First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List RE: Price's on motors by "Slobird" <marcts@ga.prestige.net> Tailpipe Extensions by "William Hewitt" <WH@choate.com> RE: A MOMENT OF SILENCE by "Provost, Marty" <MProvost@LiquidGolf.com> RE: Firebird-L Digest #1772 by "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Re: Windshield wiper position by "Jeff Davis" <Jeff_Davis19@excite.com> Re: Firebird Emblems by "Jeff Lane" <JeffLane32@hotmail.com> Re: Tailpipe Extensions by "Zak" <jzakhar@home.com> Re: Tailpipe Extensions by "Michael Howell" <fishgod@iglou.com> 69 quarter glass questions by <Metthem@aol.com> Re: 69 quarter glass questions by "ROY D LUMSDEN" <rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com> RE: Exhaust Questions by "Bryan & Mone' Young" <bryandmo@home.com> Re: 73 intake manifold by "Daniel" <poncho40@sga.quik.com> Re: A MOMENT OF SILENCE by "Daniel" <poncho40@sga.quik.com> Re: Price's on motors by "Joe Brown" <jb.pb@gte.net> Re: cam outcome? by "Joe Brown" <jb.pb@gte.net> RE: Exhaust Questions by <hugoba@apcom.com> Freon replacements- beware by <kmorrow@socket.net> RE: Exhaust Questions by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com>
(back) Subject: RE: Price's on motors From: "Slobird" <marcts@ga.prestige.net> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 07:48:30 -0500 73 455 from grand prix carb to pan starter to flywheel, 500$. Was running engine, but I rebuilt it anyway. Here's what everything cost me. tim 455 motor pan-carb junkyard 500 new 4x heads (due to crack) 75 total core 575 comp cams xe268h kit 380 flow kooler pump 90 rod bolts 72 rings 160.25 pistons KB222 328 main bearings 90.52 inserts 57.47 cam bearing 20.5 gasket set 76.7 2 way cam key 7.35 freeze plugs 7.5 new valve springs 81 bronze guides 165 Total Parts 1536.29 3 angle valve job 185 bore block 190 cut for seats 30 cut head and intake side 100 off on pinfit 110 size rods 160 polish & cham 35 drill bolt and rem plugs 30 2 hardened seats 40 square and deck block 110 file fit rings 45 clean & mag heads & block 163 other cleaning 75 Total Labor 1273 Grand Total New Motor 3384.29 Total head related stuff 711 Stuff I already Have on 350 Headers 150 Flowmaster exhaust 300 MSD 6AL 150 MSD Billet Distributor 250 Holley 750 230 coil 40 wires 40 total 1160
(back) Subject: Tailpipe Extensions From: "William Hewitt" <WH@choate.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:28:07 -0500 I have a dual exhaust system on my 68 convertible but the tailpipes do not = extend beyond the undercarriage. Can anyone recommend a tailpipe = extension that looks good (either through a parts catalog or a brand name = I could mention to the exhaust shop). Thanks in advance. Bill Hewitt 68 HO Convertible
(back) Subject: RE: A MOMENT OF SILENCE From: "Provost, Marty" <MProvost@LiquidGolf.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:12:12 -0500 Mace is right. I was recently (10/06) in a motorcycle accident which resulted in a head injury. Btw, my firebird is my motorcycle replacement. I was REALLY stupid and not wearing a helmet. I was traveling at no more than 20mph and received brain damage because my brain slammed into the = front of my skull. I am happy to say that I have recovered almost completely (I have lost all sense of smell though). I can only imagine the brain = becoming nothing more than mush in a 180mph collision. Nothing around the outside = of the skull is going to prevent the brain/skull collision inside the skull. -Marty -----Original Message----- From: Mace [mailto:macef@optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 8:14 PM To: First Generation Firebird-L Subject: RE: A MOMENT OF SILENCE First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... Just for the record, The HANS device may not have saved his life. The impact at 180 miles per hour is mind boggling. Even the paramedics don't think this would have saved him. Mandating that all speedways including drag strips, have softer impact bank walls would have probably saved him Mace I think Earnhardt's old man raced Pontiacs in the 60's... Is this correct? Possibly...anybody that was somebody did. Gary No doubt about it the sport will not be the same. I quit caring about it when Adam was killed then just started getting interested and this happens. Makes me sick to know that most of these guys deaths could have been prevented thru NASCAR mandating HANS. AMEN
(back) Subject: RE: Firebird-L Digest #1772 From: "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:20:43 -0600 Subject: Price's on motors brett@cisdirect.com writes: Tim, you hit close to home! Just picked up a fresh 73 YC code 455 with 6X heads yesterday! I have a 67 326 vert with 2.56 gears but in posi form. Flowmaster 2.5" with Hooker Comp headers, TH400 with a shift kit and cooler... I CAN'T WAIT to get it together and in and on the road! Thanks for the preview! Brett in Seattle! 67 Drop top 326... Ah, I mean 455! Could you guys say how much you paid for your 455's and the condition? Just to check current price's. I saw a complete 455 needed a rebuild w/ a turbo 400 for $800.00 dollars last spring (High). And I bought a 68 WS 400 with #16 d-port heads and a nojaler crank minus carb and intake for $150.00. I've seen D-port small valve heads go for $100-$200 dollars. Oh yeah and a great deal on some ported RA IV 's For the low price of $1,800.00 the guy must have been a crack head. These are all newspaper adds - JohnCostello John, My 455 was a low miles motor, so they polished the crank, new bearings and RV Cam and bearings, Assembled short block, fresh 6x heads with new valves, guides, lifters etc... pan front cover, dampener, crank pulley, gasket set, everything except intake/carb = for $700. I thought that was a good deal! I since have been told that it was a killer deal for a fresh uncut 455! So I would say from $500 - $1,000 depending on condition would be a good range with out paying too much. Keep a close watch on all the local ads and look for the cheap Pontiac "big" cars for a good motor too! - Good luck, Brett
(back) Subject: Re: Windshield wiper position From: "Jeff Davis" <Jeff_Davis19@excite.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:52:15 -0800 (PST) Don't have a description for you but would think that any slight downward angle would be OK. Here's a nice picture that shows good positioning. http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?f_CarID=3D90 or http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?f_CarID=3D75 Should look familiar. On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:07:37 -0800, First Generation Firebird-L wrote: > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > > I had my '68 Firebird at a shop who removed my windshield wipers > (don't ask why!). > > Anyway, I was getting ready to re-install them but cannot seem > to find a detailed description of what position they should be > in when at rest. > > I checked my manual but it only states the right wiper shoudl > just touch the shoudl trim. > > I windshild recall it actually touching the trim, but even if > so, where is the left wiper positioned? > > Thanks for any hlep!! > > Mark > > 1968 Firebird convertible _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
(back) Subject: Re: Firebird Emblems From: "Jeff Lane" <JeffLane32@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:54:36 -0500 Do you really have to remove the front fenders to get at the side fake = vents on a 69 and the Firebird emblems which also entails removing the hood, = etc? That's a lot of work to put on some new emblems. Right now mine are still = in their boxes :( Thanks, Jeff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamie Hutchinson" <jhutchi2@maine.rr.com> To: "First Generation Firebird-L" <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Firebird Emblems > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > -Now here's a thread that keeps coming back...... > > In my earlier days, when repro suppliers were scarce and you had to > travel to swap meets and auto fairs to find the simplest (yet rare) = part, > these home remedies seemed to be a viable alternative. I drove around = for > years with the firebird scripts carefully painted with white enamel = (mixed > flat with a little gloss from Testers bottles to get the right look). I did > the same with the fender bird emblems, using modelers paint. The paint faded > and peeled over time and had to be re-done occasionally. I then tried = the > plastic beads that hobby shops sell for those suncatcher kits. You had = to > bake them in the oven and let them flow into place. They still fell out > (think of the road vibrations) and were not the correct color or look. Then > I tried the polyester resin stuff that is used for encapsulating bugs = and > making those neat paperweights. You can get a dye kit that colors the resin > as well. I did this in two steps: First, I experimented with the red = dye, > counting the number of drops needed to match the original emblem color. = (I > used my glovebox emblem for a model, as it was still intact) I did the = red > areas and let it start to set up. Then I did the black in the same = manner. > As soon as the colored areas were set past the liquid stage. I covered = all > with clear, as the originals are. The result was not bad, but no matter how > you try, it's difficult to get the same appearance as the original. The > colors will bleed together slightly, too. I drove around with these for = a > year, but the problem I had was that the surface hazed a little and had = to > be waxed. They also started lifting and peeling out of the base metal. = The > base metal is "pot metal" that is chrome plated. The chrome makes it > difficult for anything to adhere for any length of time. I think the problem > is also aggrevated by temp cycles (shrinking/expanding) and UV from the sun. > I looked back at all the HOURS I spent in searching for products, > experimenting to get the process right, painstakingly appling the stuff with > toothpicks, letting them cure, re-doing them if they didn't come out right, > finally settling for what I thought was a compromised result and then having > them fall apart again. I figured that if I was working for MINIMUM WAGE = I > was still dealing with some expensive emblems. It was fun at first, but > after a few failures I saw the light. My time is worth more than that. This > is a special process that is hard to duplicate in the home. $30 is not = all > that much money if you figure how much is wasted elsewhere. Think of all the > times you spent that much on something that was appreciated for only > minutes. Its easier to make the $30 than to go through all > that......really.If you get the nice professionally made emblems, you'll > appreciate them every time you look at them. Probably for many years, = too. > Suppliers like Ames exist only because people patronize their business = and > allow them to expand, improve and even keep parts more affordable and > AVAILABLE. I say, do it the old fashioned way: SAVE until you can afford it, > buy QUALITY and DEEPLY appreciate it so that it gets the care it = deserves. > > My $0.02 > > Jamie > > > > Earlier this week there was a thread about painting emblems. > > I did a little research and found that the process used to make the > Firebird emblems is called Cloisonn=E9. This is the term that Ames uses in > their > catalogue also. > > I decided to look into repairing them after I saw the prices for emblems > in Ames! > > (snip) > > Some references call them enameled emblems. Enameling requires a = powdered > colorant that is baked on. > > > Any observations or suggestions? > > > > > >
(back) Subject: Re: Tailpipe Extensions From: "Zak" <jzakhar@home.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:07:31 -0500 Bill, Try http://www.amesperf.com/index.html or page 65 of catalog for = exhaust splitters. I think they look great! But expensive!! Zak William Hewitt wrote: > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > I have a dual exhaust system on my 68 convertible but the tailpipes do = not extend beyond the undercarriage. Can anyone recommend a tailpipe = extension that looks good (either through a parts catalog or a brand name = I could mention to the exhaust shop). > > Thanks in advance. > > Bill Hewitt > 68 HO Convertible >
(back) Subject: Re: Tailpipe Extensions From: "Michael Howell" <fishgod@iglou.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:21:37 -0500 And you should pay good money for them, as long as you get good quality = for that money. Buy good ones and get them welded on. Cheap ones will rust the first time they get wet. Classic Industries has the original style dual splitters as well - $209 a = pair. Bill, > Try http://www.amesperf.com/index.html or page 65 of catalog for > exhaust splitters. I think they look great! But expensive!! > >Zak > >William Hewitt wrote: > > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > > = ......................................................................... > > I have a dual exhaust system on my 68 convertible but the tailpipes do = > not extend beyond the undercarriage. Can anyone recommend a tailpipe > extension that looks good (either through a parts catalog or a brand = name > I could mention to the exhaust shop). > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Bill Hewitt > > 68 HO Convertible > >
(back) Subject: 69 quarter glass questions From: <Metthem@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:41:21 EST My rear glass has not rolled down since I bought the car, it was nice out yesterday, decided to take a look. I couldn't get them to move at first, then I took out the regulator and it appeared fine. I could slide the = window up and down by hand, but after reinstalling the regulator I could only get = it up and down using both hands; one on the crank and one on the window maneuvering it up, down, in, and out. Any ideas with "walk me through instructions"? Also, the chrome and rubber seal on the front of the glass; the rubber = is rotten. Is this replaceable, is it a rubber piece and a separate chrome piece, or a single rubber and chrome piece? Instructions? Thanks, Gary
(back) Subject: Re: 69 quarter glass questions From: "ROY D LUMSDEN" <rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:47:47 -0500 Gary, If the rear windows weren't used much, chances are the grease got too = hard. On my 69, I used a combination of Liquid Wrench and lithium grease to get them moving again. I took the jamb vent out and sprayed the tracks and regulator drive gear and kept working the window up and don until it moved smoothly. Then, I lubricated the tracks and the regulator with white = lithium grease. Both the Liquid Wrench and white lithium were in aerosol cans. The rubber weather seal in the quarter window is replaceable but the chrome = edge is not. Keep looking at the swap meets or try and buy some out of Arizona = or So Calif. Good Luck, Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: <Metthem@aol.com> To: <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 6:41 PM Subject: 69 quarter glass questions > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > My rear glass has not rolled down since I bought the car, it was nice = out > yesterday, decided to take a look. I couldn't get them to move at = first, > then I took out the regulator and it appeared fine. I could slide the window > up and down by hand, but after reinstalling the regulator I could only = get it > up and down using both hands; one on the crank and one on the window > maneuvering it up, down, in, and out. Any ideas with "walk me through > instructions"? > Also, the chrome and rubber seal on the front of the glass; the rubber is > rotten. Is this replaceable, is it a rubber piece and a separate chrome > piece, or a single rubber and chrome piece? Instructions? > Thanks, > Gary > > >
(back) Subject: RE: Exhaust Questions From: "Bryan & Mone' Young" <bryandmo@home.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:21:51 -0800 Hugo, You say you bought the exhaust kit? What was in the kit? Did it come with the exhaust pipes and all needed to do the job? What was the cost? Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com [mailto:Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com]On Behalf Of hugoba@apcom.com Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 6:52 PM To: Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Subject: RE: Exhaust Questions First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... I bought the Flowmaster kit from Summit and I like it. My convertible does not have the X reinforcement plate underneath so I did not have any clearance problems so if yours has it there may be an issue = there. The quality of the kit is great and it includes all the parts (bolts, hangers, etc.). It's a bit loud and in fact it sounds louder with the top up but with the top down it sounds great (mixed with the sound of the wind zooming by). Hugo
(back) Subject: Re: 73 intake manifold From: "Daniel" <poncho40@sga.quik.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:11:18 -0500 you might want to check that manifold VERY carefully they 455 superduty motor had intake manifolds with 3 plugs under them you might have one of these intakes if I am not bad wrong Daniel Ray
(back) Subject: Re: A MOMENT OF SILENCE From: "Daniel" <poncho40@sga.quik.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:18:14 -0500 you know the risks when you get behind the wheel of a race car but I truly hate to see someone be cut down doing what they love . He will be missed by more fans than can be imagined and remembered for lifetimes. Sincerely Daniel Ray
(back) Subject: Re: Price's on motors From: "Joe Brown" <jb.pb@gte.net> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:23:38 -0800 Tim , That is right on the money , now just don't let the wife know . Joe
(back) Subject: Re: cam outcome? From: "Joe Brown" <jb.pb@gte.net> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:30:40 -0800 O.K . Stock 350 bored .030 over , #47 heads ported and polished , = Edlebrock intake , HEI , Headers , Holley 650 , Summit cam 2800 . Little lope to = idle , sounded good , 2 1-2" exhaust , stock stall and 2:73 . Ran 16.10 sec @ = 89 mph . Shift Kit too . Joe
(back) Subject: RE: Exhaust Questions From: <hugoba@apcom.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:03:22 -0800 (PST) The kit that I bought is the "Force II". It's $321.00 for the 69's which = include the rear chrome tips (the 67-68 does not include chrome tips and it's = $261.00). These prices are through Summit. The kit includes 2 Series 40 Delta Flow mufflers, pre-bent 2.5" pipes, H = pipe, hangers, U bolts and all of the hardware needed. These kits are designed = to bolt up to headers so if you are going to use the stock manifolds you will = need some adapters to attach them (I took mine to a muffler shop to have the = pipes coming out of the manifolds replaced and welded to the system after I = installed it. You can do it in one day or less with simple tools (as long as you don't = have to deal with rusted screws where the hangers go). Summit's number is 1-800-230-3030. The part # for the 67-68 is FLO-17129 = and for the 69 is FLO-17139. Hugo > From Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Wed Feb 21 18:01:56 2001 > From: "Bryan & Mone' Young" <bryandmo@home.com> > To: "First Generation Firebird-L" <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> > Subject: RE: Exhaust Questions > Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:21:51 -0800 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 > Importance: Normal > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Hugo, > > You say you bought the exhaust kit? What was in the kit? Did it come = with > the exhaust pipes and all needed to do the job? What was the cost? > > > Bryan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com > [mailto:Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com]On Behalf Of hugoba@apcom.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 6:52 PM > To: Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com > Subject: RE: Exhaust Questions > > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > I bought the Flowmaster kit from Summit and I like it. > My convertible does not have the X reinforcement plate underneath so I = did > not > have any clearance problems so if yours has it there may be an issue = there. > The quality of the kit is great and it includes all the parts (bolts, > hangers, > etc.). > It's a bit loud and in fact it sounds louder with the top up but with = the > top > down it sounds great (mixed with the sound of the wind zooming by). > > Hugo >
(back) Subject: Freon replacements- beware From: <kmorrow@socket.net> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 02:55:28 GMT As an ASE certified auto technician I would like to warn people of the = r-12 replacements being sold under various names. THERE IS NO drop in = replacement for an R-12 system that is safe or approved. Most of the replacements are hydrocarbon derivatives consisting of things such as propane. They are = very explosive and a you turn your car into a rolling bomb. Many shops have refrigerant identifying machines because people put that crap in and don't = label the car as required by law. If you hook your recycler up to a contaminated system you ruin all of your reclaimed refrigerant and create = a potentially dangerous fire hazard. The only safe approved replacement is = r- 134A. A proper conversion consists of changing several things. Hoses for = r-134a are barrier type(have a plastic lining), the molecules of 134 are smaller = and seep through a standard a/c hose. The refrigerant oil is different( PAG = oil), the older stuff is not compatible or picked up and transported through the = system for lubrication by 134. The condenser on a 134 system has more fins = and surface area due to the fact r134 is not as efficient at heat transfer. If = you buy the $20 conversion kit at walmart it will slowly leak out through the hoses, your compressor will be starved of oil, and it won't cool as good because of the smaller condenser. R-12 is recyclable, the last 30lb = cylinder I bought of virgin r-12 was $550. Will go up each year due the production = ban of it. Hoard some real stuff away for your classics before it is all gone!!! = The whole ban is a crock anyway, dupont's 20 year patent rights ran out on 12 = and it got dirt cheap, then all of a sudden it is killing the enviroment and = guess who holds the patent rights on 134.. R12 is denser than air, sinks to the ground when it leaks, that is why when using leak detectors you run the = sensor tip along the bottom of the lines!!! Kane kmorrow@socket.net
(back) Subject: RE: Exhaust Questions From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:15:09 -0800 I have not tried any DynoMax products, But I will say that Flowmaster = makes a durable, quality Product. I've mever had another muffler that could = take the full weight of the car on speedbumps and driveway transitions without leaking afterwards. This can be a factor if your car is low. When I had 14" wheels with 50 series tires on the front, Mine hit the ground a lot, = and handled it well. As far as the sound... it's all a matter of taste. Rowan >From: "Bryan & Mone' Young" Hugo, > >You say you bought the exhaust kit? What was in the kit? Did it come with = >the exhaust pipes and all needed to do the job? What was the cost? > > >Bryan > >-----Original Message----- From: Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com >......................................................................... = I >bought the Flowmaster kit from Summit and I like it. My convertible does >not have the X reinforcement plate underneath so I did not have any >clearance problems so if yours has it there may be an issue there. The >quality of the kit is great and it includes all the parts (bolts, = hangers, >etc.). It's a bit loud and in fact it sounds louder with the top up but >with the top down it sounds great (mixed with the sound of the wind = zooming >by). > >Hugo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com