First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List Re: Price's on motors by "John Wern" <jwern@charter.net> Re: 73 Intake Manifold by <geebjen@att.net> Re: cam outcome?Joe by <geebjen@att.net> bad timing ? by "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Rear seat by "Dereck Kowalski" <dakowals@mtu.edu> Re: bad timing ? by "AL ROJAS" <amr@appsig.com> Steering wheel emblem by "David Kiklis" <David_Kiklis@abtassoc.com> Re: bad timing ? by "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> Owner Show Pages Updated (2-22-2001) by "Geoff Martin" <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org> Parchment color by "Trimpe, Bob" <TrimpeB@rajones.com> Does anyone have any good shots of the rear seat of a 67 or 68 by "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> RE: bad timing by "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Rebuilt 400 on eBay for $1025 by "AL ROJAS" <amr@appsig.com> RE: Exhaust Questions by "Bryan & Mone' Young" <bryandmo@home.com> RE: Rebuilt 400 on eBay for $1025 by "Slobird" <marcts@ga.prestige.net> LEAN OR RICH (a bit off topic) by "danny" <dannyboylll@qwest.net> Re: Steering wheel emblem by "saltydog" <saltyd@home.com> Re: bad timing ? by <hugoba@apcom.com> Re: 73 intake manifold by <Birdm58293@aol.com> Re: Owner Show Pages Updated (2-22-2001) by <hugoba@apcom.com> Re: Rebuilt 400 on eBay for $1025 by <Studderin@aol.com>
(back) Subject: Re: Price's on motors From: "John Wern" <jwern@charter.net> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:11:10 -0500 Let me tell you guys a little about Tims 455. I went out to his place = last night - Fast great response - really great pick up - really good pull. = Snap your head back kind. And I'm not talking Boss 302 snap your head back I'm talking take a ride to the moon snap your head back. Even better though while going through his neighborhood it just cruized out. Great jobTim, great job. John.. -----Original Message----- From: Slobird <marcts@ga.prestige.net> To: 'First Generation Firebird-L' <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> Date: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 8:55 AM Subject: RE: Price's on motors >First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List >......................................................................... > >73 455 from grand prix carb to pan starter to flywheel, 500$. Was = running >engine, but I rebuilt it anyway. Here's what everything cost me. >tim > > >455 motor pan-carb junkyard 500 >new 4x heads (due to crack) 75 >total core 575 > >comp cams xe268h kit 380 >flow kooler pump 90 >rod bolts 72 >rings 160.25 >pistons KB222 328 >main bearings 90.52 >inserts 57.47 >cam bearing 20.5 >gasket set 76.7 >2 way cam key 7.35 >freeze plugs 7.5 >new valve springs 81 >bronze guides 165 >Total Parts 1536.29 > >3 angle valve job 185 >bore block 190 >cut for seats 30 >cut head and intake side 100 >off on pinfit 110 >size rods 160 >polish & cham 35 >drill bolt and rem plugs 30 >2 hardened seats 40 >square and deck block 110 >file fit rings 45 >clean & mag heads & block 163 >other cleaning 75 >Total Labor 1273 > >Grand Total New Motor 3384.29 > > >Total head related stuff 711 > >Stuff I already Have on 350 >Headers 150 >Flowmaster exhaust 300 >MSD 6AL 150 >MSD Billet Distributor 250 >Holley 750 230 >coil 40 >wires 40 >total 1160
(back) Subject: Re: 73 Intake Manifold From: <geebjen@att.net> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:55:57 +0000 The '73 Intake should mate up to all '68-'79 heads without a crossover problem. It is the '68-'71 intakes that will have this problem. For more info see Jim Hand's write-up at: http://www.classicfirebird.com/hand/jhand9.html Steve Lothridge > Subject: Re: 73 intake manifold > From: <Studderin@aol.com> > Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:19:34 EST > > In a message dated 2/19/2001 7:09:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, > Birdm58293@aol.com writes: > > << I have a 73 intake manifold DATE C013 (MAR 01 1973) > CASTING # 494282, My question is what are the three plugs, for a lack = of > better words, on the bottom of the manifold? What are they used for? Is = this > a good manifold and will it work with my 69 YS code GTO motor that i = will > build for my 68 Bird. Thanks TOM > >> > TOM, > # 494282 is the standard Q-jet 73 manifold. Not a SD. > > Pro's-this manifold has been proven better (faster) than the PB4 and = normal > performer alum. Manifolds. even though It weighs more. Probably cheaper = $$ > too. > > Con's-it is a EGR manifold, you must put a cover plate over the opening = to > stop the e > exhaust or block it at the manifold gasket. You may have to do this = anyway > depending on your heads (most earlier head don't mach up or seal good to = > manifolds exhaust crossover openings. And you can't put a sqarebore > (holley,or cater style) carb on without an adapter plate. > A preformer RPM is still the best manifold for a street pontiac > > JohnCostello
(back) Subject: Re: cam outcome?Joe From: <geebjen@att.net> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 15:13:02 +0000 Joe, What were your 60ft times? 89 MPH is a good indicator that you should be running right around 15.0 or even high 14's with a good launch and 2.2-ish 60 ft times. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess your 60 ft times are more like 2.6-2.7 seconds. You either have tire spin, or more likely just suffering from having 2.73 gears and stock converter. For what it's worth, my wife's '69 350 runs 2.1's for 60 ft times with 3.23 rear and 2400 stall converter. The 2400 converter made a HUGE difference on launches, but it was done before we made it to a track so I can't give you offical 60 ft numbers for the improvement. Steve Lothridge > Subject: Re: cam outcome?Joe > From: "Just Rod" <pjozif@hotmail.com> > Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 05:38:49 -0000 > > Something is not right there! Joe > are your secondaries even opening? > My 76' low compression 350, 2bbl, with true dual cat-less exhaust (2 = 1/4), a > k+n, well tuned on 93octane and slicks with 3.08 ran 16.0ish all day > (4passes)--pretty much stock. > your combo should shove you low into the 15's to high 14's! > Rod > > > . Stock 350 bored .030 over , #47 heads ported and polished , Edlebrock > >intake , HEI , Headers , Holley 650 , Summit cam 2800 . Little lope to > >idle, sounded good , 2 1-2" exhaust , stock stall and 2:73 . Ran 16.10 = sec > >@ 89 > > > > > > Joe
(back) Subject: bad timing ? From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:55:36 -0800 Question for you guy's. I know nothing about the internal's of my engine ( bought the car used ). But I do have a good amount of knowledge about engines themselves. The question I have is this. I can advance the timing a great deal, without the engine pinging. If I advance it a lot, it then wound start. It lumps when trying to start. Does it sound like it's a tooth off on the timing ? I can't believe I can't make it ping. It run's much stronger when I advance the timing. Even seem's smoother. It's a 71-72 455 engine. Just seem's odd to me that it want's a LOT of advance, but won't ping at all. Thanks. Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top
(back) Subject: Rear seat From: "Dereck Kowalski" <dakowals@mtu.edu> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:06:53 -0800 Does anyone have any good shots of the rear seat of a 67 or 68 convertible. Specifically ones showing how the rear seat comes into contact with the side panels. My car is in pieces and the interior is downstate from where I am right now. I am in the process of widening the inner fender wells 3". I need some help visualizing how the seat and side panels need to be modified. If anyone has any pictures showing this area... it would be greatly appreciated. Dereck Kowalski http://stuweb.ee.mtu.edu/~dakowals/
(back) Subject: Re: bad timing ? From: "AL ROJAS" <amr@appsig.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:22:53 -0800 Chris, I had this happen. I figured out my vaccum advance wasn't working.
(back) Subject: Steering wheel emblem From: "David Kiklis" <David_Kiklis@abtassoc.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:10:43 -0500 Folks, I have several steering wheels for my 69 ragtop, but on all of them the little Pontiac arrowhead is gone from the horn cover. Anyone know where you can get one? or does anyone have a trashed wheel that they could salvage the emblem from? I look in all the junkyards - but no luck yet David David Kiklis Director of Computer Services Abt Associates Inc. 55 Wheeler St. Cambridge MA 02138 617-520-3661 p 617-520-3640 f
(back) Subject: Re: bad timing ? From: "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:59:24 -0600 Check your mechanical advance to make sure its not locked up. >>> fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net 02/22/01 10:55AM >>> First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... Question for you guy's. I know nothing about the internal's of my engine ( bought the car used ). But I do have a good amount of knowledge about engines themselves. The question I have is this. I can advance the timing a great deal, without the engine pinging. If I advance it a lot, it then wound start. It lumps when trying to start. Does it sound like it's a tooth off on the timing ? I can't believe I can't make it ping. It run's much stronger when I advance the timing. Even seem's smoother. It's a 71-72 455 engine. Just seem's odd to me that it want's a LOT of advance, but won't ping at all. Thanks. Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top
(back) Subject: Owner Show Pages Updated (2-22-2001) From: "Geoff Martin" <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:30:01 -0500 Subject: Owner Show Pages Updated (2-22-2001) Added some more owners today to the First Generation Firebird Owners' Show Pages: Eric Angell 1968 Prowler Yellow Firebird 350 H.O. Coupe (http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=3D130) Brett Liukkonen 1967 Blue Firebird 326 Convertible (http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=3D129) ------------------- Enjoy - Geoff '68 Mayfair Maize Firebird 350 Convertible (http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=3D46) (Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org) More information about adding your car or link to the owner pages: (http://FirstGenFirebird.org/firebird/owners/info.html) (Make sure to drop the "(" and ")" when using the URLs)
(back) Subject: Parchment color From: "Trimpe, Bob" <TrimpeB@rajones.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 15:33:25 -0500 A friend of mine owns a 67 GTO with parchment interior. He told me that = Ford Wimbledon white is a dead ringer for parchment color, if anyone is having trouble matching that up. Regards, Bob Trimpe
(back) Subject: Does anyone have any good shots of the rear seat of a 67 or 68 From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:42:18 -0800 Derek, did you get any yet ? I have some, but not very close up. Kind of an angle, showing more of the front than the rear. But you can see some of the rear. Let me know if these will help and I'll sent them directly to you. Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top
(back) Subject: RE: bad timing From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:46:16 -0800 Thanks for the tip on the vacuum advance, I'll try that 1st. Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top
(back) Subject: Rebuilt 400 on eBay for $1025 From: "AL ROJAS" <amr@appsig.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:42:53 -0800 I just watched a rebuilt 400 long block sell for $1025. It included intake, water pump, fuel pump, starter, HEI w wires, and headers. I didn't bid on it because it seemed too good to be true. I'm wondering what you guys would do if saw "a deal" like this. Take a look. Item # 559899656 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D559899= 656&r=3D0&t=3D0 Al
(back) Subject: RE: Exhaust Questions From: "Bryan & Mone' Young" <bryandmo@home.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:23:10 -0800 Hugo, Thanks for the information. That is great. I bought a set of the blackjack headers that someone on the list talked about when they were found cheap. Finally gonna get them on now with this information. My 17 year old son = will love it also cause he gets mad when he drives with the exhaust leak I have now. Thanks again. Does Summit have a web site? Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com [mailto:Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com]On Behalf Of hugoba@apcom.com Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 7:03 PM To: Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Subject: RE: Exhaust Questions First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... The kit that I bought is the "Force II". It's $321.00 for the 69's which include the rear chrome tips (the 67-68 does not include chrome tips and it's $261.00). These prices are through Summit. The kit includes 2 Series 40 Delta Flow mufflers, pre-bent 2.5" pipes, H pipe, hangers, U bolts and all of the hardware needed. These kits are designed = to bolt up to headers so if you are going to use the stock manifolds you will need some adapters to attach them (I took mine to a muffler shop to have the pipes coming out of the manifolds replaced and welded to the system after I installed it. You can do it in one day or less with simple tools (as long as you don't have to deal with rusted screws where the hangers go). Summit's number is 1-800-230-3030. The part # for the 67-68 is FLO-17129 = and for the 69 is FLO-17139. Hugo > From Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Wed Feb 21 18:01:56 2001 > From: "Bryan & Mone' Young" <bryandmo@home.com> > To: "First Generation Firebird-L" <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> > Subject: RE: Exhaust Questions > Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:21:51 -0800 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 > Importance: Normal > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Hugo, > > You say you bought the exhaust kit? What was in the kit? Did it come = with > the exhaust pipes and all needed to do the job? What was the cost? > > > Bryan
(back) Subject: RE: Rebuilt 400 on eBay for $1025 From: "Slobird" <marcts@ga.prestige.net> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:44:38 -0500 I think it is way too risky because there is no way to tell what is = inside. Around 500 may be worth the risk, but I would not wager 1000$.
(back) Subject: LEAN OR RICH (a bit off topic) From: "danny" <dannyboylll@qwest.net> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:30:52 -0700 i have been tinkering on my girlfriends carbureator in her (Gasp!!!!) 65 mustang. I am thinking that the motor is running rich but i am not really sure how to tell. it gets poor gas mileage for a car of its weight. it = has a 302 cu in v8 in it that has been recently rebuilt. the carbureator = seems stock but i can't seem to find a brand on the damn thing. there is a lot = of black soot coming out of the exhaust and that along with the poor gas mileage makes me lean toward the rich condition. the mixture ajustment is = a black plastic knob on the side about 1.5 inches across with the words = "lean" and an arrow. there are some small notches in the metal casing by the = knob. ||||||| there is 7 of them evenly spaces (kindof like timing marks). Imarked the knob where it was first positioned and turned it 6 notches in the lean direction. it didn't seem to make a lot of difference. i was wndering of someone was familiar with a carb like this one. its a 2bbl by the way. i checked the plugs also,the electrodes were clean but there was large black flakes of carbon on the rest of the plug. if i remember this = is a good indication of a rich condition along with the black soot at the exhaust. thanks a lot 68400 new mexico danny-
(back) Subject: Re: Steering wheel emblem From: "saltydog" <saltyd@home.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:47:10 -0600 what color are you looking for? I have a 69 wheel it was originally green but was poorly died black. let me know. saltyd@home.com > Anyone know where you can get one? or does anyone have a > trashed wheel that they could salvage the emblem from? I look
(back) Subject: Re: bad timing ? From: <hugoba@apcom.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:25:52 -0800 (PST) Agreed. You should get a timing light with the advance knob on it to see what's = actually going on. You first check your idle advance (with the vacuum line off) and then rev = it up to see what your mechanical advance is giving you. I set mine at 14 or so = at idle and that should give you ~28ish or so of mechanical (maybe a bit = more). With vacuum you will go up to 34ish and if you go beyond most engines will start to ping. That's my experience anyway. Hugo > From Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Thu Feb 22 14:04:01 2001 > Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:59:24 -0600 > From: "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> > To: <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> > Subject: Re: bad timing ? > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by = mx2.daemonmail.net > id f1MJxPS63418 > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Check your mechanical advance to make sure its not locked up. > > >>> fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net 02/22/01 10:55AM >>> > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Question for you guy's. I know nothing about the internal's > of my engine ( bought the car used ). But I do have a good > amount of knowledge about engines themselves. The question I > have is this. I can advance the timing a great deal, without > the engine pinging. If I advance it a lot, it then wound > start. It lumps when trying to start. Does it sound like > it's a tooth off on the timing ? I can't believe I can't > make it ping. It run's much stronger when I advance the > timing. Even seem's smoother. It's a 71-72 455 engine. Just > seem's odd to me that it want's a LOT of advance, but won't > ping at all. Thanks. > > > Chris > `68 350 H.O. Drop-top > > >
(back) Subject: Re: 73 intake manifold From: <Birdm58293@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:23:53 EST Thank you all for the reply. This truely is the best place for infomation = on our beloved Birds. TOM
(back) Subject: Re: Owner Show Pages Updated (2-22-2001) From: <hugoba@apcom.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:35:22 -0800 (PST) Schweeeet! Hugo > From Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Thu Feb 22 14:05:06 2001 > Subject: Owner Show Pages Updated (2-22-2001) > Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:30:01 -0500 > From: Geoff Martin <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org> > To: "Firebird-L" <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Subject: Owner Show Pages Updated (2-22-2001) > > Added some more owners today to the First Generation Firebird Owners' > Show Pages: > > Eric Angell > 1968 Prowler Yellow Firebird 350 H.O. Coupe > (http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=3D130) > > Brett Liukkonen > 1967 Blue Firebird 326 Convertible > (http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=3D129) > > ------------------- > Enjoy - Geoff > '68 Mayfair Maize Firebird 350 Convertible > (http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=3D46) > (Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org) > > More information about adding your car or link to the owner pages: > (http://FirstGenFirebird.org/firebird/owners/info.html) > (Make sure to drop the "(" and ")" when using the URLs) >
(back) Subject: Re: Rebuilt 400 on eBay for $1025 From: <Studderin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:05:40 EST Al I would never buy a motor on e-bay. Think about it, that's a lot of money! You are rolling dice. A picture of a motor some words; no miles, = this and that bla,bla. you get "the deal." The thing gets shipped and opposite the side of the picture # 3 rod is sticking though the side of the block, and it is = stripped down to the short block!! It your word agist his that you didn't remove = the top end, Even if it is all complete and you pull the heads off to find that is a repainted 400 with 160,000 miles on it. 3 worn-out cam lobes with huge = ring steps in the .060 over bores. Even if you prove it in court it's still going to be a big pain in the ass!!! Think of the worst case simairroe. I know this sounds I'm over thinking but it happens ever day, There's some real dirt baggs out there. John Costello