First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List Re: bad timing ? by <Studderin@aol.com> Re: First Gen Ballcap. by "Geoff Martin" <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org> Re: Parchment color by <Studderin@aol.com> Re: LEAN OR RICH (a bit off topic) by "R & P" <Ronsoy@bellsouth.net> RE: Rebuilt 400 on eBay for $1025 by "danny" <dannyboylll@qwest.net> Re: Thanks for helping these bird parts find a home by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Bad timing, follow up by "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> RE: Exhaust Questions by "Brian Sargent" <bjsbird1@yahoo.com> Can't find the Correct engine paint by "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Car pricing? by "matt schmid" <schmidmj@hotmail.com> Steering Wheel by "William Hewitt" <WH@choate.com> Can't find the correct engine paint by "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Re: LEAN OR RICH (a bit off topic) by "Lee" <pyre400@yahoo.com> Re: LEAN OR RICH (a bit off topic) by "ray russell" <fastolbird@hotmail.com> Factory Idle RPM on 4 speed 68 400? by "Lee" <pyre400@yahoo.com> Re: Car pricing? by "Steve" <poncho68sa@hotmail.com> Re: Parchment color by "Jeff Davis" <Jeff_Davis19@excite.com> RE: Can't find the correct engine paint by "Trimpe, Bob" <TrimpeB@rajones.com> RE: Parchment color by "Trimpe, Bob" <TrimpeB@rajones.com> Re: Factory Idle RPM on 4 speed 68 400? by "Michael Howell" <fishgod@iglou.com>
(back) Subject: Re: bad timing ? From: <Studderin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:03:05 EST In a message dated 2/22/2001 1:54:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net writes: << Question for you guy's. I know nothing about the internal's of my engine (bought the car used ). But I do have a good amount of knowledge about engines themselves. The question I have is this. I can advance the timing a great deal, without the engine pinging. If I advance it a lot, it then wound start. It lumps when trying to start. Does it sound like it's a tooth off on the timing? I can't believe I can't make it ping. It run's much stronger when I advance the timing. Even seem's smoother. It's a 71-72 455 engine. Just seem's odd to me that it want's a LOT of advance, but won't ping at all. Thanks. Chris That's was the vacuum advance does, at idle and lower RPM's,.It really helps smoth idleind,and improve gas mileage. Do you vacuum advance on your = distributor???? Remember to disconnect it and plug the line, when you set your initial = crank advance. If you hook up a timing light with it conneted the TDC mark = will be way down and around the 9 o'clock position and your motor will run = best, But when; it is disconnected the TDC mark would jump back up to 11 o'clock 12-14 BTC. Making you think something WAS wrong? Check this, it = shows if your vacum advace is working. But if it's hard to start and cranks over hard, this is a sign of too much advance. So pop the cap and make the weight are moving popery and not stuck open = all the time (at full advance, like when your cranking it over ). How much are = you really advancing??? What was your timing before, how did it run? Did you remove the = distributor sense that time? JohnCostello
(back) Subject: Re: First Gen Ballcap. From: "Geoff Martin" <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:15:36 -0500 Thanks John for the feedback. I am real happy how the caps are turning out and find myself wearing mine all the time. Geoff <Geoff@FirstGenFirebird.org> First Generation Firebird eStore - Support our information resource and show off your pride for our beloved Firebird. http://FirstGenFirebird.org/store >Just so everyone knows, I ordered a ball cap from the first gen. store. = It >fits very good. It is of very good quality. It's the kind of hat you = wont >mind wearing. Very soft too. Just thought I'd speak up for something = good. >John.
(back) Subject: Re: Parchment color From: <Studderin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:17:04 EST Bob My FB has code 260 deluxe partment and black intir. It's all gutted know. = Do you know the year of the ford wimblemdom white? Sping is comming fast and still have alot to do. Thanks Bob I will diffenitly try it, And how big of a problem is the color = differnts in aftermarket parchment parts? If hear the Parcment This = doesn't always match a Parcment That? My car should have chrome A-pilars right? John Costello
(back) Subject: Re: LEAN OR RICH (a bit off topic) From: "R & P" <Ronsoy@bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:27:04 -0500 Sounds like your playing with the choke setting Danny, might want to set that on to notches toward lean (at least my experience in Florida). Back me up guys. Ron
(back) Subject: RE: Rebuilt 400 on eBay for $1025 From: "danny" <dannyboylll@qwest.net> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:31:17 -0700 i am with john don;t buy it until you see it. and think of what it is going to cost to ship the damn thing!!! take some time out and build your own motor then you KNOW that it is good .......................................................................... Al I would never buy a motor on e-bay. Think about it, that's a lot of money! You are rolling dice. A picture of a motor some words; no miles, = this and that bla,bla. you get "the deal." The thing gets shipped and opposite the side of the picture # 3 rod is sticking though the side of the block, and it is = stripped down to the short block!! It your word agist his that you didn't remove = the top end, Even if it is all complete and you pull the heads off to find that is a repainted 400 with 160,000 miles on it. 3 worn-out cam lobes with huge = ring steps in the .060 over bores. Even if you prove it in court it's still going to be a big pain in the ass!!! Think of the worst case simairroe. I know this sounds I'm over thinking but it happens ever day, There's some real dirt baggs out there. John Costello
(back) Subject: Re: Thanks for helping these bird parts find a home From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:22:10 -0800 I have finaly finished with my dissection of one sad old '67 coupe. Intermittent weather has slowed me down a bit. We got both hail and thundershowers, not bad for the land of no seasons. After days of = pounding and prying, I finaly hauled the hulk off to the scrap metal recycling at = the local landfill. It was a real moment watching the trackhoe/pincer lift = the car verticaly off the trailer, drive across the field, smash the car flat, = and throw it into a waiting hauler in less than 30 seconds. Anyway, now my truck is free of the curse of trailer, I will be going Postal tomorow! (Sorry I have been a little lax about my correspondence) Having removed almost everyting held to the car with a fastener, I am = amazed how nice a 'Bird is for having so few parts. Maybe now I won't have to = buy the service manual. Rowan Looking forward to working on a car where my tools won't fall through = the floor. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Bad timing, follow up From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:32:20 -0800 Sure enough, I looked closely at the vacuum advance. What did I see, a T where it went into the vacuum advance. One portion of the T came from the carb ( ported ), one portion went into the distributor, and the last portion went to.... NOWHERE ! I couldn't see it tucked under the wiring harness at the time. I'll bet the advance never has worked. Can't wait to drive it ! Thanks all . Chris
(back) Subject: RE: Exhaust Questions From: "Brian Sargent" <bjsbird1@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 05:43:16 -0800 (PST) Bryan, Check out www.summitracing.com Brian 69 conv. --- Bryan & Mone' Young <bryandmo@home.com> wrote: > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > .......................................................................... > Hugo, > > Thanks for the information. That is great. I bought > a set of the blackjack > headers that someone on the list talked about when > they were found cheap. > Finally gonna get them on now with this information. > My 17 year old son will > love it also cause he gets mad when he drives with > the exhaust leak I have > now. Thanks again. Does Summit have a web site? > > > Bryan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com > [mailto:Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com]On Behalf > Of hugoba@apcom.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 7:03 PM > To: Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com > Subject: RE: Exhaust Questions > > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > .......................................................................... > The kit that I bought is the "Force II". It's > $321.00 for the 69's which > include > the rear chrome tips (the 67-68 does not include > chrome tips and it's > $261.00). > These prices are through Summit. > > The kit includes 2 Series 40 Delta Flow mufflers, > pre-bent 2.5" pipes, H > pipe, > hangers, U bolts and all of the hardware needed. > These kits are designed to > bolt up to headers so if you are going to use the > stock manifolds you will > need > some adapters to attach them (I took mine to a > muffler shop to have the > pipes > coming out of the manifolds replaced and welded to > the system after I > installed > it. > You can do it in one day or less with simple tools > (as long as you don't > have > to deal with rusted screws where the hangers go). > > Summit's number is 1-800-230-3030. The part # for > the 67-68 is FLO-17129 and > for > the 69 is FLO-17139. > > Hugo > > > From Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Wed Feb 21 > 18:01:56 2001 > > From: "Bryan & Mone' Young" <bryandmo@home.com> > > To: "First Generation Firebird-L" > <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> > > Subject: RE: Exhaust Questions > > Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:21:51 -0800 > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE > V5.00.2919.6600 > > Importance: Normal > > > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > > > .......................................................................... > > Hugo, > > > > You say you bought the exhaust kit? What was in > the kit? Did it come with > > the exhaust pipes and all needed to do the job? > What was the cost? > > > > > > Bryan > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! = http://auctions.yahoo.com/
(back) Subject: Can't find the Correct engine paint From: "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 07:08:10 -0600 Hey guy's... remember that 455 I just got for my 67 vert. Well I'm ready = to paint it up like new... But I can't find the right Pontiac Blue Paint! All I find is Plastikote Pontiac Blue which is more of a solid Baby Blue. I want the Metallic Teal Blue like the older paint in the 60's. I was told that Duplicolor had a #227 that was the right stuff, but I can't find it! Can anyone help with any info and or if anyone can find some would they be willing to buy it and I'll send money for the cost and shipping? I have = been to 7 places so far and will hit some more over the week-end. I'm stumped! Thanks, Brett in Seattle - 67 Drop Top 455!
(back) Subject: Car pricing? From: "matt schmid" <schmidmj@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:41:01 If anyone out there is interested, I've received two pictures of the 67 = 326 vert that I'm looking into buying. Since I'm new to the game of restoring classics I'm not really sure if the car is worth what the fellow is = asking. I'm going to go see it in person next weekend, but for now if some of you don't mind could you email me and I'll send you the pictures off the list and the information he's given me and I'd like to hear what you guys = think, because I've been following the emails and reading them and everyone = really seems to know their cars very well, which I hope to some day. Thanks. Matt Schmid _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Steering Wheel From: "William Hewitt" <WH@choate.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:45:39 -0500 Does anyone have an extra steering wheel for a 68 that is compatible with = a tilt column that they would be willing to sell? Please e-mail me if so. Thanks! Bill Hewitt 68 HO Convertible
(back) Subject: Can't find the correct engine paint From: "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:14:22 -0600 Well after much searching, I found an engine restoration Co. on the East Coast Bill Hirsch Automotive that specializes in these products. They have it in pints or aerosol cans. They have tons of other restoration products, but I was hot to get the correct engine paint, so I just got that and some 1,800 degree exhaust paint for the headers. So I answered my own question! But here is the link just in case anyone else is looking for this type of product in the future or for reference in the Q & A section! This is just one place to find it, I'm sure there are more, but I jumped at the first one! http://www.hirschauto.com/ Thanks, Brett In Seattle
(back) Subject: Re: LEAN OR RICH (a bit off topic) From: "Lee" <pyre400@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:36:02 -0800 (PST) The basics, as I understand on this, Dan, and someone should check me on this: You are right on the plug, a black soot indicates a rich condition. You first make sure your idle set screws are seated and then out 2 turns. This way your even steven. (these are the screws on the side of the carb, there may only be one) Any adjustments should be made in 1/8turn-1/4turn increments, and applied evenly on each screw. If you start the car and it does not want to run turn the screw out as to richen it up. (out is richer, in is leaner) When the car is up to optimum temp (165 deg/middle of the gauge.) you can start the tuning process. Make sure your vac lines are labeled before you pull them off, and make sure your car is in good time. Clog the line with a small screw or fine treaded bolt as to seal it off (from the break booster, and what have you). Then proceed to turn each screw 1/4 of the way in on even increments. Listen to the engine. If the engine responds with an increase in RPM you know that you are rich. If it starts to stumble or dies you are too lean, let the screws out to richen it up. A quick test before you do any adjustment would be to just unplug a vacuum line. If the engine increases in RPM, you are too rich. The smell will give it away too. (make sure the choke is off, and not restricting air flow) Also, you can use 1/8 turns to do more fine tuning onece you are in the ball park. Forgive me if I have left anything out. I would suggest getting a vacuum gauge, as it will be more accurate, and a little easier to do,but it can be done without. If you do use a gauge never increase the rpm over idle, you could destroy the gauge, maybe even your engine. The range you will be looking for is (16-20 inches of Hg) This is different on most cars but 18-20 should be good for a stock Joe. Good luck Lee __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! = http://auctions.yahoo.com/
(back) Subject: Re: LEAN OR RICH (a bit off topic) From: "ray russell" <fastolbird@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:41:11 -0600 Dannywrites................. > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > i have been tinkering on my girlfriends carbureator in her (Gasp!!!!) 65 > mustang. I am thinking that the motor is running rich but i am not = really > sure how to tell. it gets poor gas mileage for a car of its weight. it has > a 302 cu in v8 in it that has been recently rebuilt. the carbureator seems > stock but i can't seem to find a brand on the damn thing. there is a lot of > black soot coming out of the exhaust and that along with the poor gas > mileage makes me lean toward the rich condition. the mixture ajustment = is a > black plastic knob on the side about 1.5 inches across with the words "lean" > and an arrow. there are some small notches in the metal casing by the knob. > ||||||| there is 7 of them evenly spaces (kindof like timing marks). > Imarked the knob where it was first positioned and turned it 6 notches = in > the lean direction. it didn't seem to make a lot of difference. i was > wndering of someone was familiar with a carb like this one. its a 2bbl = by > the way. i checked the plugs also,the electrodes were clean but there = was > large black flakes of carbon on the rest of the plug. if i remember this is > a good indication of a rich condition along with the black soot at the > exhaust. thanks a lot 68400 new mexico danny- > Danny, you are adjusting the automatic choke on that ford carb!! look on the front or sides for mixtuer adjustment screw. ray 67 coupe modifide www.hotrodder.com/fastolbird
(back) Subject: Factory Idle RPM on 4 speed 68 400? From: "Lee" <pyre400@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:52:26 -0800 (PST) This should be an easy one... I have a 68 400, and I was wondering what the stock idle speed was for a 4 speed manual. I had read something around 1050 RPM, but I don't believe it. I just want to make sure, I think it should be around 700 RPM, but maybe Pontiac is a different beast? It sounds pretty smooth at 700, but I don't know if its cam lope, or too slow an idle that I hear. More than likely its cam lope, but I figured you folks would set me straight. Tanksallot Lee __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! = http://auctions.yahoo.com/
(back) Subject: Re: Car pricing? From: "Steve" <poncho68sa@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:53:44 -0500 if possible you should put these pics on the web. It makes things alot easier ----- Original Message ----- From: matt schmid <schmidmj@hotmail.com> To: <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 3:41 PM Subject: Car pricing? > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > If anyone out there is interested, I've received two pictures of the 67 326 > vert that I'm looking into buying. Since I'm new to the game of = restoring > classics I'm not really sure if the car is worth what the fellow is asking. > I'm going to go see it in person next weekend, but for now if some of = you > don't mind could you email me and I'll send you the pictures off the = list > and the information he's given me and I'd like to hear what you guys think, > because I've been following the emails and reading them and everyone really > seems to know their cars very well, which I hope to some day. Thanks. > Matt Schmid > >
(back) Subject: Re: Parchment color From: "Jeff Davis" <Jeff_Davis19@excite.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:02:56 -0800 (PST) John & Bob, Please include me with any off-list emails regarding suppliers. I am also going to get teh parchment interior. Same desire to have it done soon as spring IS here, though not officially. So John we're kinda in this together. Your help and input would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff Davis '68 350 convertible On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:17:04 EST, First Generation Firebird-L wrote: > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Bob > > My FB has code 260 deluxe partment and black intir. It's all gutted = know. Do > you know the year of the ford wimblemdom white? > Sping is comming fast and still have alot to do. > > Thanks Bob I will diffenitly try it, And how big of a problem is the color > differnts in aftermarket parchment parts? If hear the Parcment This doesn't > always match a Parcment That? My car should have chrome A-pilars right? > > John Costello > > _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
(back) Subject: RE: Can't find the correct engine paint From: "Trimpe, Bob" <TrimpeB@rajones.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:43:38 -0500 Brett, I can buy it at several local auto parts stores here in the midwest. I = hope to post pics soon of my engine rebuild -- complete with Pontiac #227 metallic blue. (Man it looks nice...) Let me know if I can help. Bob Trimpe -----Original Message----- From: Brett Luikkonen [mailto:brett@cisdirect.com] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 11:14 AM To: Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Subject: Can't find the correct engine paint First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... Well after much searching, I found an engine restoration Co. on the East Coast Bill Hirsch Automotive that specializes in these products. They have it in pints or aerosol cans. They have tons of other restoration products, but I was hot to get the correct engine paint, so I just got that and some 1,800 degree exhaust paint for the headers. So I answered my own question! But here is the link just in case anyone else is looking for this type of product in the future or for reference in the Q & A section! This is just one place to find it, I'm sure there are more, but I jumped at the first one! http://www.hirschauto.com/ Thanks, Brett In Seattle
(back) Subject: RE: Parchment color From: "Trimpe, Bob" <TrimpeB@rajones.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:46:09 -0500 John, The Wimbledon white is irrespective of year -- it's just the name of a color Ford used. So I think as long as you ask your paint dealer for that color by name, you'll get the right thing. I can't say about the quality of the aftermarket parts' parchment color; my car's interior is red! It's my buddy's GTO that's parchment. But I'll ask him and let you know if I get any good info. Chrome A pillars were used on 67 birds (help me out, listers, if I'm wrong on that) Regards, Bob Trimpe -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Davis [mailto:Jeff_Davis19@excite.com] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 2:03 PM To: First Generation Firebird-L Subject: Re: Parchment color First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... John & Bob, Please include me with any off-list emails regarding suppliers. I am also going to get teh parchment interior. Same desire to have it done soon as spring IS here, though not officially. So John we're kinda in this together. Your help and input would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff Davis '68 350 convertible On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:17:04 EST, First Generation Firebird-L wrote: > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Bob > > My FB has code 260 deluxe partment and black intir. It's all gutted = know. Do > you know the year of the ford wimblemdom white? > Sping is comming fast and still have alot to do. > > Thanks Bob I will diffenitly try it, And how big of a problem is the color > differnts in aftermarket parchment parts? If hear the Parcment This doesn't > always match a Parcment That? My car should have chrome A-pilars right? > > John Costello > >
(back) Subject: Re: Factory Idle RPM on 4 speed 68 400? From: "Michael Howell" <fishgod@iglou.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:08:00 -0500 Lee- According to the 68 shop manual: For a 400 4bbl w/ manual, idle should be 850 with the solenoid active and = 650 with it inactive. Fast idle RPM is 2500. With ram air the figures = are 1000/650 and 2800 fast idle. Mike '68 350 Coupe http://fishgod.home.dhs.org/firebird/firebird.html >I have a 68 400, and I was wondering what the stock >idle speed was for a 4 speed manual.