First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List Re: List Server: Re: Todays progress again by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Re: Ram Air 101 by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Re: front end rebuild advice and best way to drop 2 " check this out!! by "Mace" <macef@optonline.net> Fuel Addative by "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Rant by "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Re: Hot Rod Power Tour by <N9JCQ@aol.com> Water Pump Plates by "Jason Rogers" <jason.rogers@york.com> Off Topic by "Steve Manktelow" <twocan@colba.net> Re: Make Azteks into hearses, only way I ll be in one by <NoPinkTutu@aol.com> Re: front end rebuild advice and best way to drop 2 " check this out!! by "Mace" <macef@optonline.net> What fuel pressure should I run? by "Walterdy@cox-internet.com" <walterdy@cox-internet.com> RE: front end rebuild advice and best way to drop 2 " check this out!! by "Jeff Frey" <FREYJ@mascorp.com> Re: Ram Air 101 by "Shawn Jeppson" <sfjeppson@earthlink.net> Re: Rant... by "Shawn Jeppson" <sfjeppson@earthlink.net> Re: Re Convertible Header Bars and Core support by <Framair@aol.com> Axle Codes and Ratios by <Jimc2002@aol.com> Carb identification question by "Erich Wagner" <ewagner@advancepac.com> RE: Firebird-L Digest #1844 by "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Convertible Header Bars by "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Re: First Gen Rear Ends by "Joe Brown" <jb.pb@gte.net>
(back) Subject: Re: List Server: Re: Todays progress again From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 23:43:38 -0700 Man...That list server catches me every time! > >Sweet, my bird looks a lot like that today >I am amazed that as of today, I have as much time into locating a = workable > >exhaust for my TPI as it took to wire it! >What brand/manifolds do yo Chebby powered guys have? >And thanks Ken, I neded a pic of the AC box...Does anyone hae an extra >one,or maybe know If the second gen one will work? I know the non AC >blower >motor boxes are the same. >L8R >Rowan *68 open wheel > > >From: GTOken <GTOken@ipa.net> > >I hope Im not boring anyone but Im so excited about acutally working on > >my car I just want to show my progress. Heres todays ........... > >http://home.att.net/~gtoken/fbwork6.html > > > >Hope to try to set the 455/200r4 in tomorrow. Then the new 3.73 > >12-bolt. After that all the details, hoses, wires, accessories, you > >know. > > > >Ken F. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: Ram Air 101 From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 23:50:31 -0700 Bikes...Great idea! I have new browsing enhancement as we got DSL service(after a year of bitter battling)today. Only problem is DSL seems = to disconnect if the phone is used or called. Sticking my hand out the window at 60, it feels like it would at least compensate for restrictive/bent ducting highway 17 is a 'special enforcement zone' Maybe midnight drags at Dolan road or 4Mile beach. "saltydog" <saltyd@home.com> wrote: Just out of curiosity on what others have to say, I believe we have discussed this before and actually you can get more air from the back of = the hood near the windshield because of a low pressure in this area and that right out on the front of the hood is a high pressure area. Does anyone remember something about that? I definately wouldn't argue with the statement that it looks better out there on the front. hehehe. .. That is why the Ram Air setup on the Trans Ams is much better than the ram air hood on the SS. On the SS the air has to turn around and come = back toward the front of the car to enter the maf, whereas on the TA it gets rammed right up the snout (argueably looks better also). Yes...Mine will be a nose breather from behind the grille. If I get = a 400 hood, the ram air ports will handily blow cool ir across the TPI runners(isnt that cool) Although it is called Ram Air, the factor is cold air induction. Under = hood air is hotter than outside of the hood. Pete This too will be in my favor And thanks Jason for the description /results of your TA. A friend of mine who has raced a few TPI 'Vettes tells me the mod that = made the biggest differene for him was the 'airfoil' between the bores of the throttle body. I guess smooth flow is the key. Rowan >From: David_S_Smith@amat.com >Rowan, > >Lots of the latest sport bikes use the "ram air" to force more air = through >the >carburator. From what I have read, the effect is minimal until the >motorcycle >gets up well over 100mph. > >The way they prevent 'upsetting the carb' is by venting the carb to the >intake >track so that the float boal sees the same pressure as the intake track. = >If the >float boal is not vented to the same pressure as the intake track, then >the >fuel would be pressurized out of the float boal. > >They also jet the carb richer on the high end so that it can use the = extra >air. >Unfortunately, the engine runs rich at full throttle when at lower road >speeds. > >I remember reading about ram air in one of my issues of Roadracing World >(motorcycle related), so maybe you can find something in their archives. >http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/index.html > >Even if you don't find anything in the Roadracing World site, I would = still >look >through other motorcycle sites because the ram air is so common on modern = >sport >bikes. > > >So, just how fast do you plan on taking that Hwy 17 pass? > >Dave > >From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> > >Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:34:28 -0800 > > > > In installing my EFI motor, I have a great deal of freedom of = design > >for the air intake system. > >The only rule is it must come from the front. > >I know my engine will respond best to cold forced air. > >A 5lb. supercharger can be installed with nothing but a fuel pump = change. > >From this, I assume the ECM will deal with any changes I make, but if = not >I > >do have a bro who can reprogram my chip. > > > > > >It seems to me that a carb might be upset by too much pressure added, > >especialy as it would be relatively minor on the street, but a lot at = say > >100mph. > > > >My system has a MAF sensor that measures the actual amount of air that > >enters the engine, and fuel is adjusted based on that. > > What I am looking for is information on sizing my ram air snorkel. > >Do I just go as big as I can (the entire grille opening becomes a giant > >scoop while the radiator is fed by the chin breathing kit from the = donor > >car), or is there some practial limitation? > >any input, links, or formulae would be welcome. > >Thanks, > > Rowan *68 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: front end rebuild advice and best way to drop 2 " check this out!! From: "Mace" <macef@optonline.net> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 08:26:43 -0400 Dear Brad, I have done alot of research on the "2"Drop Kit". The fact is that if you drop the front of the car using the "Spring" method, you change the entire geometry of the front end. The alignment is alot trickier because = the front end shop uses the numbers provided by the Tech Manual. That means = that they won't be able to get perfect 0 degree settings. You should always set the caster at 2 degrees positive using this method. One the other hand, using the spindle method, the front end geometry dosen't change. The = wheels are brought 2" higher on the spindle. This actually lowers the whole car, not just the control arms. Aligning is easier but keep in mind that some drop spindles require you to use a bigger rim to clear the lower tie rod ends. The is a company called Classic Performance in California, that = makes this kit with the brakes, spindles, calipers and lines for under 600.00. This kit works with 14" wheels. Do not buy it from Stainless Steel Brakes. The kit is from a nova and has really small rotors and 15" rims hit the = tie rod ends. The web site for classic is Http://www.classicperf.com and just look under 69 Camaro. I am going to purchase this kit as my last 4 months = of investigating the "Drop Thing" has proven that this is the way to drop the nose. If you have to wait and save the money to do the spindle drop. You will be happier you did... Mace 69 355 Drop-Top
(back) Subject: Fuel Addative From: "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 09:49:07 -0400 Dan, Thanks. Keith 68 H.O. Subject: Re: Fuel Addative From: "Dan Lawrence" <danl@fdn.com> Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 14:51:30 -0400 Keith, It is like night and day. Actually, I have been pricing the Tolulene at different places and I found some at $7.20/gal at a paint supply store. = That gets the price down to an affordable solution for me. I haven't tried putting the Xylene in yet. The web page said it wasn't necessary. I'm undecided on trying it. I'm trying my second tank full today and I'm going to get the ratio up to 10% this time. I'll let you know. Dan 68/coupe/428 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Rant From: "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 09:57:12 -0400 Jason.....I really had a hard time trying to determine if you really like the Aztek.....not. But in all seriousness, I totally agree with you. = Ever since I saw one of those hideous Azteks on the road, I couldnt believe = that Pontiac could allow such a vehicle go into production. I have not heard about the Firebird being discontinued, they better not. I too was = thinking about buying one, those Ram Air birds still look awesome coming down the road! Dude, I'm totally in agreement with you. Hmmmmm 2001 Ram Air Firebird or Aztek......boy what a tough decision. Keith 68 H.O. Keith 68 H.O. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: Hot Rod Power Tour From: <N9JCQ@aol.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 10:28:04 EDT Andrew and all.. It might be a good time for a Chicago area First Gen = get-together???? What ya guys think??? Joe Rotman 68 350 Convertible
(back) Subject: Water Pump Plates From: "Jason Rogers" <jason.rogers@york.com> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 11:11:39 -0400 Andy, You have the early pump and it is correct as you describe. There is = nothing hold the plates, they sit one inside the other then both sit inside the housing. The gasket then goes on (sealer on both surfaces) and the outer plate has a flat part on the passenger side that gets covered a little by the gasket and gasket sealer. You will see when you put it together. Subject: Re: Water Pump Plates From: "Andy" <fbird68@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 23:30:31 -0700 So, based on Bob's note, my setup is OK. Mine has eight bolt holes, one gasket between the pump and timing cover and two plates that fit loosely behind the pump. No tubes, no grommets. I don't remember there being large enough mating surfaces between the two plates to hold them together with sealant, but I haven't had the pump off = in four years. The '68 service manual doesn't even mention the plates, so = it's of no help (unless I missed it). There was nothing holding the plates together or to the timing cover the first time I opened it up. Should = there be? Andy
(back) Subject: Off Topic From: "Steve Manktelow" <twocan@colba.net> Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 03:09:08 -0400 I have an off topic question about motor replacement in a late model ford. If there is anyone who has background in the 5 liter ho engine could you please e-mail me off list at twocan@colba.net I need the info A.S.A.P. Thanks Steve
(back) Subject: Re: Make Azteks into hearses, only way I ll be in one From: <NoPinkTutu@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:50:09 EDT In a message dated 4/3/2001 9:58:35 PM Central Daylight Time, Gary@tcworks.net writes: << PS I think the AH SH*T (aztek)stinks too. >> I agree Gary.....That's one fugly vehicle!! Makes me wonder who is = designing these things, and WHO'S buying them. = Wayne
(back) Subject: Re: front end rebuild advice and best way to drop 2 " check this out!! From: "Mace" <macef@optonline.net> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:50:49 -0400 Dear Brad, I have done alot of research on the "2"Drop Kit". The fact is that if you drop the front of the car using the "Spring" method, you change the entire geometry of the front end. The alignment is alot trickier because = the front end shop uses the numbers provided by the Tech Manual. That means = that they won't be able to get perfect 0 degree settings. You should always set the caster at 2 degrees positive using this method. One the other hand, using the spindle method, the front end geometry dosen't change. The = wheels are brought 2" higher on the spindle. This actually lowers the whole car, not just the control arms. Aligning is easier but keep in mind that some drop spindles require you to use a bigger rim to clear the lower tie rod ends. The is a company called Classic Performance in California, that = makes this kit with the brakes, spindles, calipers and lines for under 600.00. This kit works with 14" wheels. Do not buy it from Stainless Steel Brakes. The kit is from a nova and has really small rotors and 15" rims hit the = tie rod ends. The web site for classic is Http://www.classicperf.com and just look under 69 Camaro. I am going to purchase this kit as my last 4 months = of investigating the "Drop Thing" has proven that this is the way to drop the nose. If you have to wait and save the money to do the spindle drop. You will be happier you did... Mace 69 355 Drop-Top
(back) Subject: What fuel pressure should I run? From: "Walterdy@cox-internet.com" <walterdy@cox-internet.com> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 01 18:12:42 -0500 Greetings All, I have a 69 FB with a 428 w/750 Barry Grant carb. I currently have 7psi going into the carb, is this too much? I replaced the old pump since it was only putting out 3.5 - 4 and I was worried it was going to quit at the track this weekend. Thanks, Walt
(back) Subject: RE: front end rebuild advice and best way to drop 2 " check this out!! From: "Jeff Frey" <FREYJ@mascorp.com> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:34:43 -0700 >> From Brad: My front springs are original and need to be replaced. I would like to get a 2" drop spring kit. Anyone have any experience using this? I considered drop spindles but they seem expensive. What are the pro and = cons of both methods. Cost is a factor. I want to be as informed as possible before attempting this project so i dont run into many unforseen difficulties. << This month, Either Musclecar or Hot Rod magazine had an excellent article = on dropping your car, this last month. I will look in my stack of mags when = I get back home. For cheap you can lower your car 1-2" both front and back by trimming the springs and adding lowering blocks in the rear. You can buy new shorter sport springs if you want to keep the spring load exact. Drop spindles = are for larger drops in most cases, but can be used. There are lots of good details in the article. I would just cut my springs, if I wanted a drop = of 2" or less. It's free. If I didn't like the spring load, then I would start spending $ to do something different. I redid my front end a couple of years ago with the PST poly-u bushing = kit, new shocks, and new springs (no drop). I have not had any squeaking problems at all, but did not have any problems with the stock ones either. - - Jeff
(back) Subject: Re: Ram Air 101 From: "Shawn Jeppson" <sfjeppson@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 20:17:00 -0700 I agree it looks better but the ram air is actually less efficient. The a relitivly small amont of air traveling up the hood is directed into the = small hood scoops without generating alot of pressure and whats left has only a = small distance to move to get around it, but when it reaches the windshield a = large amount of air has to change directions to go over the windshield and = colides with other air and builds pressure. This pressureized area is where the = cowl induction scoop draws its air from. Shawn saltydog wrote: > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Just out of curiosity on what others have to say, I believe we have > discussed this before and actually you can get more air from the back of = the > hood near the windshield because of a low pressure in this area and that > right out on the front of the hood is a high pressure area. Does anyone > remember something about that? I definately wouldn't argue with the > statement that it looks better out there on the front. hehehe. > > . That is why the Ram Air setup on the Trans Ams is much better than = the > ram air hood on the SS. On the SS the air has to turn around and come = back > toward the front of the car to enter the maf, whereas on the TA it gets > rammed right up the snout (argueably looks better also).
(back) Subject: Re: Rant... From: "Shawn Jeppson" <sfjeppson@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 20:21:06 -0700 I have heard this also from the same GM engineer but it was hinted that = the replacement will be designed in Europe. That is a scary thought. No = offense to the Europeans on the list but I've never seen anything comperable to a muscle car come from that side of the ocean. Shawn Eddie Pettit wrote: > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > IMO, the Camaro/Firebird will make a return after a few years... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason Rogers" <jason.rogers@york.com> > > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > > = ......................................................................... > > Ok, now I am really P.O'ed. For years now there has been discussion = on > > whether to eliminate the Firebird and Camaro.
(back) Subject: Re: Re Convertible Header Bars and Core support From: <Framair@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 20:36:36 EDT I checked the NOS set of Conv. Header Moldings I have... They are entirely painted gray. Underneath is the chrome. There seems to be some confusion on what process was used on production '68/'69 Firebird moldings. Some say the dull area was bead blasted. Others say a special baked on paint process. Actually saw a set that someone had 'media blasted' to get that dull effect. Looked pretty original to me. So, I suppose it depends on one's technique and paint used. On a similar note, I've refreshed many Custom Sport Steering Wheels that had some ugly looking spokes (rust). Once finished, you could not tell the difference. John FRamair@aol.com Semper Fi Ephesians 4:32
(back) Subject: Axle Codes and Ratios From: <Jimc2002@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 22:58:43 EDT I was doing some research prior to some axle work on my '68 and wanted to = ask the group about gear ratios. I have long assumed that my '68 400 HO = convert with air cond. and safety-track always had the standard 2.78 ratio posi = axle. That assumption came from looking at the Pontiac Service Manual Fig 4A-4C = cross ref chart. I believed that ratio was the only one that fit the parameters of my car. Today, for the first time in the 32 years I've = owned the car, looked for and found a "ZB" code on the axle. What confuses me is = that it appears that the ZB code is a 2.56 ratio for 6's and 350s w/o air = conditioning. I know that the axle casing (carrier and tubes) are original and that only = diff/axle parts replaced are the two axle bearings and one axle shaft over = the life of the car. I guess I'll know for sure if I open the = differential and count teeth? But, is there a way to tell short of that? I have the original window sticker and it just showed the Saf-T-Track option code 361 = ($42.13). Guess I won't do well in the quarter but save fuel. Jim
(back) Subject: Carb identification question From: "Erich Wagner" <ewagner@advancepac.com> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 09:05:37 -0400 I need to replace the carburetor on my '67 326 A/T convertible. The 2 barrel Q Jet carb currently on the car has two markings: The first one is die stamped on the right side in a circular pattern- 7034794. From various sources I determine this to be: 70 =3DRochester 34 =3DA.I.R.? 7 =3D? 9 =3D? 4 =3DAutomatic The second set of markings- 7028062 are on a red stamped tag attached by a screw on the top left of the main body: 70 =3DRochester 28 =3D1968 0 =3D? 6 =3DPontiac 2 =3D Automatic If I read all the decoding info for Rochester correctly I should have: 70 =3DRochester 27 =3D1967 2 =3D 49 state application Quadrajet 6 or 7 =3DPontiac Even number =3D Automatic The 1967 Pontiac Service Manual calls for: 7027062. Which is obviously only one digit (the year) off the one on the red tag. (The 1967 Firebird supplement only discusses 400s) Lastly, my car does not have A.I.R. Can anyone help me to determine what the original carb number should be and what I should go with. I am not trying to be exact to the original, I just want a carb that will work properly on the original intake. At some point I may consider upgrading to a 4 barrel but I don't want to get into replacing the intake etc. right now. Any recommendations on where to go for this carb. I can probably get one at a local parts store but if anyone has a better source..... Any other suggestions or hints would be helpful. Erich Wagner '67 Firebird 326 Convertible e-mail: ewagner@advancepac.com or honus@fuse.net
(back) Subject: RE: Firebird-L Digest #1844 From: "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 06:08:16 -0500 I just ran into a problem with my 455 build up. I have a Edelbrock performer manifold from the doner 326 but my new 6x heads are EGR heads with the larger EGR port in the center that the manifold obviously doesn't cover... Is there a restrictor plate/gasket made for this, or am I looking at a new manifold as my only option? Thanks for any help or ideas on this! Brett 67 455 Vert!
(back) Subject: Convertible Header Bars From: "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 07:22:57 -0500 Convertible Header Bars and Core support From: "Ed Pittman" <epittman@pvcc.cc.va.us> 1. 1968 header bars on the windshield were dull finish on the inside. I have just had mine replated by Tri-City and they did a great job. = However, they are now bright chrome all over. This may have been discussed before but I missed it and I need to know how is the best way to return the back side to a dull finish. Some have said that it is painted on but mine did not appear to be painted before I sent them to the platers. Ed, I haven't looked that close at mine yet, but if it was a "painted" finish I would get a "Satin" clear and mask everything off well, and try that. It can be un-done if necessary. Or you could use a fins steel wool or scuff pad and actually buff the chrome (in effect dulling the finish) to get the proper look with out damaging the chrome much. That's what I would try to get the right look. Just an idea... Brett 67' 455 vert!
(back) Subject: Re: First Gen Rear Ends From: "Joe Brown" <jb.pb@gte.net> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:03:58 -0400 I would find a 68 or 69 rear to bolt in with the gear ratio you want , = most likely the the posi unit will be toast . P.O.B 8.2 rear is good unit , = they have clipless axles and the axles are very strong . I would recommend keeping the rear end in your car and buying new posi carrier and = ring&pinion with an installation kit . There should be somebody in your area to = install it , do not attempt to do it yourself . Joe