First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List Adhesives/Caulking by "Steve Miller" <sjmiller@us.ibm.com> PCV question by "matt schmid" <schmidmj@hotmail.com> Updated Project by "Dereck Kowalski" <dakowals@mtu.edu> 68 Sprint Car by "jttrettel" <jttrettel@onemain.com> Testing by <PStonebrak@aol.com> ADMN: Big Server Crash by "Geoff Martin" <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org> 69 Firebird for sale by <TA4283x2@aol.com> Carb Identification Question by "Jason Rogers" <jason.rogers@york.com> Re: Firebird-L Digest #1844 by "Andrew & Kate Panek" <panek@inil.com> Re: Updated Project by "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> Re: Hot Rod Power Tour by <hugoba@apcom.com> EGR problem solved! by "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Is this for real? by "Eric Heinrich" <ericheinrich@hotmail.com> Re: front end rebuild advice and best way to drop 2 " check this out!! by "Bad Acid" <bad-acid@pacbell.net> A new list member! by "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Re: Hot Rod Power Tour by "Andrew & Kate Panek" <panek@inil.com> Re: Axle Codes and Ratios by "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Rearview Mirrors by <SteveBrady1@aol.com> Re: First Gen Rear Ends by "Landis Rogers" <rogers_landis@hotmail.com> Re: Rant... by "ROY D LUMSDEN" <rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com> Re: Axle Codes and Ratios by <Jimc2002@aol.com> RE: front end rebuild advice and best way to drop 2 " check this out!! by "Mace" <macef@optonline.net> off topic by "Craig" <coreman@uniserve.com> Re: Updated Project by "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Re: What fuel pressure should I run? by <hugoba@apcom.com> Re: Re Convertible Header Bars and Core support by <JGeigel@aol.com> Re: Is this for real? by "Jeff Lane" <JeffLane32@hotmail.com> Chicago area get together by "pete" <yaselskyp@webtv.net> Re: Re Convertible Header Bars and Core support by <Framair@aol.com>
(back) Subject: Adhesives/Caulking From: "Steve Miller" <sjmiller@us.ibm.com> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:11:28 -0700 Howdy, I've been lurking on the list for a month since Andy steered me towards a '68 Sprint convertible that I picked up for $2k. Been busy = since stripping the interior, cleaning up and using por on floorpans and the trunk, removing rust, making Ames and CI wealthier, etc. I've finally got a question for the list that I haven't seen discussed yet. There appear to be several different kinds of pliable caulks and/or sealants used in the interior. I am curious what others have used as replacements for these. A couple of examples: 1) The kick panel vent housing is sealed to the sheetmetal with a thick bead of a light grey pliable (after 30+years!) caulk the consistency of = old gum. 2) Interior seams (above floorpans, etc) have a coating of a tar-like black coating (semi-pliable) that looks brushed on originally. Looks = like this stuff also possibly acted as a sound deadener. 3) The floor pan drain plugs were originally sealed in with a white = fairly non-pliable caulk. 4) The seat tracks were mounted down with what appears to be a black = gummy adhesive. Could this be because the seats were originally mounted on top of the tar paper, or was a separate adhesive used there? Any suggestions for these areas are greatly appreciated! Regards, Steve "Breaking this seal implies that you have read this manual, and are therefore obligated to provide support to anyone who doesn't want to read this manual." - Illiad
(back) Subject: PCV question From: "matt schmid" <schmidmj@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 19:57:36 Ok, I've been busy with school lately and haven't had much time to put my engine together, but recently I figured out that the vacuum hose I was curious about has the PCV valve at the end of it. I have a '68 350 the = valve cover just has a breather, can anyone give me a really good description or = picture of where exactly the PCV valve is supposed to be hooked up? I've = got one end hooked up to the carb and the valve is just kinda hanging out in = my engine compartment. Thanks in advance. Matt '68 coupe _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Updated Project From: "Dereck Kowalski" <dakowals@mtu.edu> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 22:29:41 -0700 I finally got a chance to put some new photos up on the 67 restoration = site. Check it out and let me know what you think. Dereck http://stuweb.ee.mtu.edu/~dakowals/
(back) Subject: 68 Sprint Car From: "jttrettel" <jttrettel@onemain.com> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 23:21:02 -0400 Hey everyone, there's a very nice looking '68 Sprint, Manual trans. car on Ebay right now. Very cool looking car, wish I was in the market as I would buy it to match up to my brother's sprint convertible car. Here's the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D5771185= 40 Justin
(back) Subject: Testing From: <PStonebrak@aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:28:28 EDT Is the list still alive, I haven't had an email for a day or so. Pete
(back) Subject: ADMN: Big Server Crash From: "Geoff Martin" <Geoff@firstgenfirebird.org> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 15:08:50 -0400 Had the worst problem on the server then we have ever had. Actually had to recover from a back up from the previous night. For awhile thought the old computer had finally runs its course but only was a major corruption of data. Thank the car gods for automated backups. Took a day longer than I wanted since I wanted to keep an eye on it for awhile and could not do that during the week. Hope I did not cause to much havoc in your daily schedule. Still amazes me how all this has turned out from my little obsession and now is yours too. Thanks for the support - Geoff <Geoff@FirstGenFirebird.org>
(back) Subject: 69 Firebird for sale From: <TA4283x2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 15:09:33 EDT 69 firebird for sale. Off frame resto started. new lower quarters,trunk = lid and rear bumper. All chrome window trim and emblems polished and = re-enameled. This car is complete less motor,trans and hood.The car is disassembled and = has recently been put back on the frame with all new bushings.The car is about 20% complete and needs work.Pics available. $1300 firm. Gary
(back) Subject: Carb Identification Question From: "Jason Rogers" <jason.rogers@york.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 16:22:08 -0400 Erich, I think the carb you need is 7037062.
(back) Subject: Re: Firebird-L Digest #1844 From: "Andrew & Kate Panek" <panek@inil.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 15:20:10 -0500 BRETT THE EXHAUST CROSSOVER NEEDS TO BE COVERED BY A METAL PLATE. I HAVE HEARD = OF ALUMINUM USED BUT STAINLESS IS RECCOMMENDED. I BELIEVE PONTIAC STREET PERFORMANCE WEBSITE SHOWS HOW THIS DONE. ANDREW
(back) Subject: Re: Updated Project From: "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 15:24:58 -0500 Great job.... I wish I had that much energy.... You might as well get = some or fabricate some sub frame connectors. >>> dakowals@mtu.edu 04/06/01 12:29AM >>> First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... I finally got a chance to put some new photos up on the 67 restoration = site. Check it out and let me know what you think. Dereck http://stuweb.ee.mtu.edu/~dakowals/ -----
(back) Subject: Re: Hot Rod Power Tour From: <hugoba@apcom.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 13:29:16 -0700 (PDT) (not being from Chicago myself) I think it would be a great idea since the = tour will come to Joliet (just outside of Chicago) on May 4th. It would be = great to meet up with the local folks. Hugo > From Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Fri Apr 6 12:22:07 2001 > Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 10:28:04 EDT > From: N9JCQ@aol.com > Subject: Re: Hot Rod Power Tour > To: <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Andrew and all.. It might be a good time for a Chicago area First Gen = get-together???? What ya guys think??? > Joe Rotman > 68 350 Convertible > >
(back) Subject: EGR problem solved! From: "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 13:46:04 -0500 I figured out the ERG problem, the "extra port" is non functional and with the right gasket, the manifold seals correctly and that port isn't used... or missed. Just dead space. So I'm dropping the 455 in this week-end! About time! Thanks - Brett 67 vert 455!
(back) Subject: Is this for real? From: "Eric Heinrich" <ericheinrich@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 21:22:22 Hey all, I've been away from the list for a few days so I don't know if this has = been noticed or discussed or not, but is this for real? The price is crazy, = even considering how rare the car is/may be. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D5746105= 56 Eric in Boston _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: front end rebuild advice and best way to drop 2 " check this out!! From: "Bad Acid" <bad-acid@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 14:21:18 -0700 Mace, Thanks for the info! This is the route I would like to go too! I had not seen it available for this low of price in my searches though. Lance 67 400 Coupe The is a company called Classic Performance in California, that makes > this kit with the brakes, spindles, calipers and lines for under 600.00. > This kit works with 14" wheels. Do not buy it from Stainless Steel = Brakes. > The kit is from a nova and has really small rotors and 15" rims hit the tie > rod ends. The web site for classic is Http://www.classicperf.com and = just > look under 69 Camaro. >
(back) Subject: A new list member! From: "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:26:09 -0500 Hey guys, I just wanted to let you know that our fellow list member up here in the Great North Wet, Chris Porter and his wife had their baby this week! Chase was a bit early (wanted to see dads firebird no doubt) so he won't be home for a little while, but it sounds like everyone is ok, even Chris! So if you get a chance, show Chris some support! I know some of what he's going through, we have our first on the way too! Brett in Seattle, 67-vert-455!
(back) Subject: Re: Hot Rod Power Tour From: "Andrew & Kate Panek" <panek@inil.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 16:31:38 -0500 JOE CONSIDER ME THERE... MY CAR IS STILL GARAGE BOUND BUT MIRACLES CAN = HAPPEN. ANYONE ELSE IN THE AREA?? ANDREW
(back) Subject: Re: Axle Codes and Ratios From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Jim writes: >I have long assumed that my '68 400 HO convert >with air cond. and safety-track always had the standard 2.78 ratio posi = axle. >hat assumption came from looking at the Pontiac Service Manual Fig 4A-4C >cross ref chart. I believed that ratio was the only one that fit the >parameters of my car. Today, for the first time in the 32 years I've = owned >the car, looked for and found a "ZB" code on the axle. What confuses me = is >that it appears that the ZB code is a 2.56 ratio for 6's and 350s w/o = air >conditioning. There is some contradiction between the Service Manual, and the Sales Album, <http://FirstGenFirebird.org/firebird/1968/sales_manual/O-chart1.html> which indicates that the 2.56 ratio was in fact standard for a 400 HO equipped with air and a Hydromatic transmission. It isn't unusual for errors to occur in Pontiac publications, when changes to standard equipment came too late to include before the printing deadline. You seem to have a good case for the Sales Album to be correct, given your long history with the car. You should check your PHS documentation to verify the original axle code for this car. You do have this, don't you? It is always possible that whatever the standard ratio or axle type might be, the car was ordered with something different, but didn't make it to the window sticker. This is where the billing history or build sheet comes in handy. >I guess I'll know for sure if I open the differential >and count teeth? But, is there a way to tell short of that? Not really. The method of chalking the tire and drive shaft and then counting rotations will only give you an approximation. Given that you are trying to tell a 2.56 from a 2.78, this won't get you close enough. Since I'll bet you've never changed the lube in the 32 years of ownership, isn't now a good time to drain the tire old oil out of tha axle, assuming there is any left, and adding fresh lube? Then you can verify the ratio and diff. type. It really isn't that hard. A little messy perhaps. But you can get it done faster than an engine oil change. -BoB San Jose, CA 1968 convertible bob.cisneros@Sun.COM
(back) Subject: Rearview Mirrors From: <SteveBrady1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 18:09:45 EDT Anyone have a pic of their interior rear view mirror? I need to see what = one looks like in good condition. Steve Brady 68 400 Convertible http://members.nbci.com/srb/
(back) Subject: Re: First Gen Rear Ends From: "Landis Rogers" <rogers_landis@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 18:33:16 -0400 Not sure why you say not to install it yourself. It isn't that hard, just = takes patience, a press and some measureing instruments. Mine has been it = for a couple of thousand hard miles and it look fine when I change the = oil. The gears show a very good pattern. I have very little noise, not more = than expected with richmond gears. Overall I was very happy and the whole job cost less than $400 complete with gear and an install kit including all = the bearings and gasket. Landis 67 400 coupe w 3.55 gear in a posi rear end _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: Rant... From: "ROY D LUMSDEN" <rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 18:46:06 -0400 The axing of the Firebird and Camaro from big brother GM would really be = no surprise to me. GM is a "bottom line" company and has lost what it means = to have a "vision". They proved that to me when the decided to cut the Fiero. Scoff if you will but the car was something special that all Pontiac fans should be proud of. This car was the ONLY mid engine car EVER produced in the US and it has the Pontaic badge. Yes, it used some parts from other = cars but so did our beloved Firebird (say Camaro). When sales started to sag, instead of improving on the car and building on it's image, GM axed it = using the excuse that they were loosing money and that it was a good experiment but not cost effective to produce. Then, they got on the Saturn hype wagon and pushed that little car until I was sick of hearing about it. It just so happens that all the tooling and technology used in the manufacturing process (e.g., space frame chassis, composit body panels) of the Fiero was now being used to make that little four seater car.... but the same technology. HELLO... It was more cost effective because they figured the Saturn would appeal to a larger market share (i.e., more profit). Vision??... Don't we have enough little 4-door, 4-bangers??? Still, Toyota managed to successfully market and sell the MR2 for years. Now, they bought it back even better and they are competeing with the = Boxer and the Corvette. You don't think that's what the Corvette division was afraid of in 1988, do you? So, no, it won't surprise me. Vision? That medal now belongs to Chrisler. Whew, Roy
(back) Subject: Re: Axle Codes and Ratios From: <Jimc2002@aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 20:02:49 EDT Bob, Thanks for the answers. I never ordered the build sheet because I had the = original window sticker and I'm cheap. Guess I should now. But, looking = at the sales info they do conflict. Thanks. It makes sense now. I've been = so glad that I have all car/engine/trans numbers matching after 173k miles = and 33 years I was getting afraid the diff was not by some wierd circumstance. Part of that work I was referring to was to open the diff and replace the lube. I do think it was done once before when I had a "noise" checked out = years ago. It turned out to be an axle bearring cutting into the axle = shaft. Regardless I'm going to change it . Thanks again, Jim
(back) Subject: RE: front end rebuild advice and best way to drop 2 " check this out!! From: "Mace" <macef@optonline.net> Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 20:15:01 -0400 Lance, No problem!!! Glad the info helped. I too am going to do this next winter...Just had the car out Wednesday..55 degrees and the top down. What = a great cruise I had and the feeling of every head I passed turning makes me want to just enjoy what I have worked so hard to achieve...Till next winter..... Mace 69 355 Drop Top Mace, Thanks for the info! This is the route I would like to go too! I had not seen it available for this low of price in my searches though. Lance 67 400 Coupe The is a company called Classic Performance in California, that makes > this kit with the brakes, spindles, calipers and lines for under 600.00. > This kit works with 14" wheels. Do not buy it from Stainless Steel = Brakes. > The kit is from a nova and has really small rotors and 15" rims hit the tie > rod ends. The web site for classic is Http://www.classicperf.com and = just > look under 69 Camaro. >
(back) Subject: off topic From: "Craig" <coreman@uniserve.com> Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 17:18:08 -0700 Go to this site and try searching for Ford 302 Long Blocks. I thinks the site is working properly. Some tech glitches today but it gives lots of casting #'s. http://www.vancore.ca Craig
(back) Subject: Re: Updated Project From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 17:25:36 -0700 (PDT) Derek Kowalski writes: >I finally got a chance to put some new photos up on the 67 restoration = site. >Check it out and let me know what you think. >http://stuweb.ee.mtu.edu/~dakowals/ Derek, You are doing an admirable job on that car. Your fabrication abilities look quite good. I was suprised to notice that the car seems to be sitting on cinder blocks. And in some of the photos, the blocks are on their sides, the weakest axis for an already weak support. Do yourself a favor, and buy some good jackstands. This way you'll be more likely to live to finish the car and not be a tragic obit. in the local paper. We'd all rather see you finish this project and get that car on the road. Please don't take this as a personal attack. But I've seen cars fall from precarious perches, and I'd hate to see anyone make a fatal or tragic mistake. When working on a car, things can go from okey dokey to very bad in the blink of an eye. -BoB San Jose, CA 1968 convertible bob.cisneros@Sun.COM
(back) Subject: Re: What fuel pressure should I run? From: <hugoba@apcom.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 18:10:03 -0700 (PDT) I believe that 5 to 6 is nominal and 7 might be on the high side but if = you're not blasting through your float valves you might be ok. The thing to do is to get an adjustable pressure valve with a guage (which = you might have) and run it at about 7 at the track and 5ish in town. Hugo > From Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com Fri Apr 6 12:42:08 2001 > Subject: What fuel pressure should I run? > Date: Wed, 4 Apr 01 18:12:42 -0500 > x-sender: Walterdy.cox-internet.com@mail.tyler.net > From: "Walterdy@cox-internet.com" <walterdy@cox-internet.com> > To: "First Generation Firebird-L" <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Greetings All, > > I have a 69 FB with a 428 w/750 Barry Grant carb. I currently have 7psi > going into the carb, is this too much? > > I replaced the old pump since it was only putting out 3.5 - 4 and I was > worried it was going to quit at the track this weekend. > > Thanks, > Walt
(back) Subject: Re: Re Convertible Header Bars and Core support From: <JGeigel@aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 21:17:28 EDT John, How did you refresh the spokes? I've got to do mine. Thanks Joe Geigel In a message dated 4/6/2001 12:50:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Framair@aol.com writes: On a similar note, I've refreshed many Custom Sport Steering Wheels that had some ugly looking spokes (rust). Once finished, you could not tell the difference. John FRamair@aol.com Semper Fi Ephesians 4:32
(back) Subject: Re: Is this for real? From: "Jeff Lane" <JeffLane32@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 21:48:17 -0400 Considering it's from Milford, Ct - the price is most definately real. I moved up to Maine from that area and it's not just cars that are = expensive! Check out http://www.napolimotors.com/wsavage63_mainpage_735951.html . = This is a fun place to go on a Saturday because you can actually sit in and "touch" the cars for sale - but the prices... ----- > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Hey all, > I've been away from the list for a few days so I don't know if this has been > noticed or discussed or not, but is this for real? The price is crazy, even > considering how rare the car is/may be. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D5746105= 56 > > Eric in Boston > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > >
(back) Subject: Chicago area get together From: "pete" <yaselskyp@webtv.net> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 19:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Hey gang, Pete from Reno, NV here. Im going to be making a trip to Chicago-ish area on April 26 to May 1. Would love to see about meeting with some of the members. Im going to be flying into Chicago on the 26th and headed to Lowell, IN. A little town in northern Indiana. The trip is mostly business, but I am planning on doing some part searching while Im there. I always try to fit in "bird time". So if anyone is open I would love to take a look at some of these birds..:) Hugo, are you planning on stopping by on your way for to the "tour"? Would love to see your bird. Oh, and you could possibly pick up the disk brake set-up, and last time you mentioned the seats, if you want them they are yours.:), of course you would have to get me a replacement rear seat. Im going with a set of Honda seats that I picked up out of a 97 civic.
(back) Subject: Re: Re Convertible Header Bars and Core support From: <Framair@aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 22:50:59 EDT From: JGeigel@aol.com >John, >How did you refresh the spokes? I've got to do mine. ....Joe, It's been awhile since I've done the Wood Wheel Spokes. I do recall experimenting with different paints until I found the right combination. Also remember using one color for the base and using a touch of another for that final finish. Depending on how bad the pits are, there will need to be some sanding and possibly filling. End results depend upon attention to detail. I tend to be quite picky but it pays off. I remember selling one refinished '68 Wood Wheel at a swap meet along side an NOS one I had. No one could tell the difference except for slight wear on some of the wood grain. John FRamair@aol.com Semper Fi Ephesians 4:32