First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List Save the F body/a little off topic by "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Head Knowledge and... by "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Re: Songs by "Niklas Ridell" <vcc2.nridell@memo.volvo.se> More on save the F body by "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> RE: Safety mandated shoulder belts by "Brady Esch" <besch@cardeon.com> Re: Safety mandated items by "Lee Gilbreath" <firebirds42@hotmail.com> Blower Motor Wiring, etc by "Jeff Lane" <JeffLane32@hotmail.com> RE: Cocktail shakers by "Jeff Davis" <jeff763@email.com> 69 Hood Latch by "Jeff Lane" <JeffLane32@hotmail.com> Re: 69 Hood Latch by "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> RE: Cocktail shakers by "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> cocktail shakers by "lws" <lws@nextek.net> RE Brake Metering Valve by "Gary Patrick" <Gary@tcworks.net> Re: Blower Motor Wiring, etc by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> re uni-lug by "earl staley" <87gta@altavista.com> save the F body? Nah, let it go! by "Glenn Uettwiller" <birdman@gdi.net> Cocktail Shaker's? by "John Moore" <sirsaber@mcn.net> still looking... by "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@qwest.net> Fw: Single to multileaf conversion. by "Bad Acid" <bad-acid@pacbell.net> convertible headliner by "elrack" <elrack@email.msn.com> songs with the bird by "elrack" <elrack@email.msn.com>
(back) Subject: Save the F body/a little off topic From: "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:53:01 -0400 Yes, alot of boys (muchachos), dinero(spelling?), cash on the barrel head, = scratch, Franklins, whatever. The cars are awesome looking and from what = I have heard from you guys plus others, the cars can spit out some performance. I might wait for 2002, but then run the risk of not getting one. The dealership here in PA has 10 (yes count them) WS6 Ram Airs on = the lot! The best looking one is a burnt orange, awesome! Bob, you know of = the rough production numbers for the past couple of years? I mean, how rare = are these cars? I realize not to buy it for the investment, but for the love = of the car. I kinda thought since my first Gen is a 68 (second year of production) it would be kinda cool to own a 2001, the second to last year. = Just a thought. Also for anyone interested, the salesman told me he heard that Chebby will = make a 2002 SS Crammo with factory horse of 375, some sort of special edition very limited production. I personally have no interest in any Chebby, give me a Poncho. Bob and Hugo, thanks for the advice. Keith 68 H.O. Subject: Re: Save the F body/a little off topic From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:52:51 -0700 (PDT) A few years ago, when the call came out to save the F-body, .......................... The very demograpic they were both aimed at in the beginning. >roughly 30k for one of these cars....alot of muchachos. A lot of boys? Just how were you planning to pay for this car? ;^o _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Head Knowledge and... From: "Brett Luikkonen" <brett@cisdirect.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 06:39:01 -0500 Do the heads themselves not make that great a difference? Or is it only in conjunction with a different cam when it comes into play? Thanks for the input! - Lee Hi Lee, Hugo is right on the money. The mods he mentioned are the best place to start, with out spending too much money or time... As he said, from there, it gets more expensive and complex, but still do-able for the slightly experienced do-it-your-selfer. Heads can and do make a big difference. You can study up an that, but keep in mind that for the daily street use you want to keep the compression = down to a reasonable number. Like 9 to 1. I'm using a set of 6X heads on my 455 at the recommendation of others on the list. They = are later (78) heads that work well with today's flues and still flow = reasonably with larger valves etc... Then in conjunction with a "mild" cam, 1.65 rockers, you can get good idle/power/torque from idle all the way up with the right combo! So first figure out how far you want and can afford to go, and start with the bolt on's and then you can do more anytime. Or you can do it all at = once since you'll have it some what apart, if you can afford the down time and the expense. Just my .02 worth... Nice cars by the way, I still miss My sprint 6. Brett - 67 Drop Top 455!
(back) Subject: Re: Songs From: "Niklas Ridell" <vcc2.nridell@memo.volvo.se> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:47:41 +0200 Wow! Great choice, but wasn't the song called MEAN Machine? bad-acid@pacbell.net wrote: > > Another one of my favorites is > Black Sunshine by White Zombie (even though it's about a Mustang) > > or how about Green Machine by Sugar Ray? >
(back) Subject: More on save the F body From: "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:35:35 -0400 Bird... I tend to generally agree with you regarding the value/resale. That was = my original point...shelling out 30k for a car that might be worth 20 2 years = later. However, that is the root of the problem. There is not enough demand for new F bodies, thus the lower demand and thus price for the used = F bodies. The F body will dissapear because of this, and with that I also struggle. Boy, what a dilema. Keith 68 H.O. Subject: More on Save the F-body From: "bird@mail.javanet.com" <bird@mail.javanet.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 00:15:49 -0400 I believe my story is a microcosm of why the f-body is going the way of = the dodo bird. I love Firebirds. I love all four generations. I remember when the first generations arrived at the Pontiac dealership in early 1967 (I was six). = I got my license when the 2nd generation T/As had the shaker hood, screaming chicken, and that great evil-looking grille a la Smokey and the Bandit. I couldn't afford to buy one since I was just a kid. But the seeds were set. When things got more comfortable financially, I bought my first f-body, my = 67 convertible. I love it. But I can't use it as a daily driver (or I should = say I choose not to do so). A more modern f-body is more appropriate, so I = started looking for one to use as my summer driver. I could afford to buy a new 4th gen t/a. I choose not to. I just can't justify buying a brand new Firebird or T/A when you can buy a nice used one for so = much less. They have terrible resale value and are a great bargain used. Instead of buying a new Firebird or T/A, I bought a 1992 Firebird convertible in excellent condition. I paid under $5000 By the time I get done with some upgrades (my wife calls it "peeing on the hydrant") I'll have $7000 into = it. It's a great looking, riding and handling car that scores high on the grin meter, especially with the top down. It does for me exactly what I want. = And, I kept over $25000 in my pocket as compared to buying a brand new one! In = five years, I'll do it again and buy a 4th gen convertible. Look at the prices = now - you can get early 4th gen convertibles in nice condition in the low teens already. The market just isn't there and the prices reflect it. If GM can't convince me, an absolute F-body enthusiast with enough income = to buy an F-Body brand new, where is their market? Gone, I'm sorry to say. America wants SUVs. Just my observations _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: RE: Safety mandated shoulder belts From: "Brady Esch" <besch@cardeon.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:59:31 -0700 I have never owned a Firebird coupe, just a '67 and two '68 convertibles. Both '68s were built late 1967. However, my experience is supported by previous list comments: Shoulder belts are a fairly rare custom-order option for convertibles. I have never seen one with that setup in person, but have saved some pictures since I bought a full set of '68 custom belts with rear shoulders that I was thinking of putting on my car. One lister with this option correct for his car did not recommend it. Too many loose buckles. I got the belts out of a '68 coupe in a junkyard. $30.00 :) Brady Esch
(back) Subject: Re: Safety mandated items From: "Lee Gilbreath" <firebirds42@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:55:41 -0400 My convertible has no shoulder belts, nor a place for them. Lee 67 Signet Gold on Signet Gold 326 Coupe 68 Alpine Blue on Teal Sprint Convertible - in Restoration http://user.icx.net/~lee4uhere/68bird ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy <fbird68@ix.netcom.com> To: First Generation Firebird-L <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 2:46 AM Subject: Re: Safety mandated items > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Rowan, > > If I'm not mistaken, you can turn a '68 console into a '67 console just > by removing the burl overlays and replacing the door with a black one. > As for why your car doesn't have shoulder belts, it could be that GM > failed to meet the date, yours slipped by, your belts were later > removed, or...? > > Have you checked to see whether there is a second set of buckles > connected to the same mounting point as the lap belt buckle? These > sometimes are lurking on the floor between the seat and the console. > > Anyone else have a '68 built in '68 that has no evidence of shoulder > belts? What about all you folks with convertibles? Were '68 converts > exempt? > > Andy > > > > > > Subject: Re: List Server(oops): Re: Safety mandated items > > From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> > > Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 14:11:13 -0700 > > > > >My trim tag indicates first week of January '68, > > >and the car has no sign of shoulder harness, > > >but it is missing a lot of little stuff too. > > >would the '67 colsole maybe be original? > > >Rowan > > > > > > > > > >From: Andy <fbird68@ix.netcom.com> > > > >Paul, > > > > > > > >The 1968 Annual states that front-seat shoulder harnesses were = required > > > >starting January 1, 1968. Lap belts were required for all seats. My = '68 > > > >had front shoulder harnesses, but they proved to be so impractical = that > > > >I did not put them back up when I replaced the headliner years ago. = Is > > > >it possible the '68s you've seen were manufactured before January = 1? > > > >Mine was made in February. > > > > > > > >Andy
(back) Subject: Blower Motor Wiring, etc From: "Jeff Lane" <JeffLane32@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:12:42 -0400 Since I have the fenders off I am going to replace the blower motor on my = 69 with no AC. Old one didn't work probably because the wire coming from the motor had been cut and was just dangling there! Question is where do I = hook up the wiring to the new motor? It will probably be obvious when I take a closer look, but just thought I'd ask. Songs again. Well, it depends on my mood. Here's a couple: When I want to get away I like: Bob Seger "Travelin Man" live. (feelin the breeze, passin the cars) Super Tramp "Take the Long Way Home" Slow ride mode after glaucoma treatment: War "Low Rider" Sugar Loaf "Green Eyed Lady" Yes "Your's Is No Disgrace" Aerosmith "Uncle Salty" When I feel like driving: Rush "Red Barchetta" (of course!) Boston - doesn't matter Ozzy Stone Temple Pilots (the old stuff - not the new crap) Actually I better get a radio in my Bird first! Thanks, Jeff.
(back) Subject: RE: Cocktail shakers From: "Jeff Davis" <jeff763@email.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:15:59 -0400 (EDT) I know that Chris has been looking for one shaker for quite a while and it sounds like he's about to luck-up on it. HOWEVER, I too need a set for the rear. So if you guys end up with a set for the rear of a '68, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I need both. THANKS!! Jeff '68 350 convertible ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com
(back) Subject: 69 Hood Latch From: "Jeff Lane" <JeffLane32@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:27:39 -0400 Anyone know where I can get a 69 hood latch in good condition? (don't want my new hood to fly open). Of course I was outbid on Ebay (God I hate resorting to that place). No matter what you bid you always get beat and = the prices are crazy. Let's see. Place an item out there for sale. Then have a couple of your friends with ever changing e-mail addresses out bid and = drive the price up for who ever bids on something. If the friends win the auction - who cares they just put it up for auction again a few months later. Venting because I really need this part! Tried Classical Pontiac Classified and Frank's Pontiac Parts. No luck. Thanks, Jeff.
(back) Subject: Re: 69 Hood Latch From: "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:12:16 -0500 Goodwin sells them new for 69 dollars. >>> JeffLane32@hotmail.com 04/20/01 01:27PM >>> First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... Anyone know where I can get a 69 hood latch in good condition? (don't want my new hood to fly open). Of course I was outbid on Ebay (God I hate resorting to that place). No matter what you bid you always get beat and = the prices are crazy. Let's see. Place an item out there for sale. Then have a couple of your friends with ever changing e-mail addresses out bid and = drive the price up for who ever bids on something. If the friends win the auction - who cares they just put it up for auction again a few months later. Venting because I really need this part! Tried Classical Pontiac Classified and Frank's Pontiac Parts. No luck. Thanks, Jeff. --
(back) Subject: RE: Cocktail shakers From: "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:16:10 -0500 You can always just put in new body mounts and just leave them off. Those = things were tuned for factory tires, spring and shocks. Frank >>> jeff763@email.com 04/20/01 12:15PM >>> First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... I know that Chris has been looking for one shaker for quite a while and it sounds like he's about to luck-up on it. HOWEVER, I too need a set for the rear. So if you guys end up with a set for the rear of a '68, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I need both. THANKS!! Jeff '68 350 convertible
(back) Subject: cocktail shakers From: "lws" <lws@nextek.net> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:23:22 -0400 I need a front set for 68.any more around?Thanks,Larry
(back) Subject: RE Brake Metering Valve From: "Gary Patrick" <Gary@tcworks.net> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:39:45 -0400 Subject: Brake Metering Valve From: "Patrick W. Thompson" <patrickt@compucominc.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:45:48 -0700 Does anyone know where I can find either a rebuild kit or a new/rebuilt metering valve for my 69 400 w/ AC? It's that "round thing" between the master cylinder and the proportioning valve and mine has started leaking. Thanks, Patrick 69 400 Convertible Pat, check the achieves for that. I rebuilt mine some years back with a little modification to shelf parts. Gary
(back) Subject: Re: Blower Motor Wiring, etc From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:51:41 -0700 http://www.locl.net/homes/sapple/69wir2.html I have a non AC setup complete except for flex ducts and eyeball vents, as well as need for the fiberglass siutcase for the AC. I might even be able to buy it off you. Or if somone knows a good source for those, let = me know Rowan 68 (almost AC, I'm almost ready to give up and put my car together without it) >From: "Jeff Lane" <JeffLane32@hotmail.com> >Since I have the fenders off I am going to replace the blower motor on my = >69 >with no AC. Old one didn't work probably because the wire coming from the >motor had been cut and was just dangling there! Question is where do I = hook >up the wiring to the new motor? It will probably be obvious when I take a >closer look, but just thought I'd ask. > >Songs again. Well, it depends on my mood. Here's a couple: > >When I want to get away I like: > Bob Seger "Travelin Man" live. (feelin the breeze, passin the cars) > >Super Tramp "Take the Long Way Home" > >Slow ride mode after glaucoma treatment: >War "Low Rider" > >Sugar Loaf "Green Eyed Lady" > >Yes "Your's Is No Disgrace" > >Aerosmith "Uncle Salty" > >When I feel like driving: >Rush "Red Barchetta" (of course!) > >Boston - doesn't matter > >Ozzy > >Stone Temple Pilots (the old stuff - not the new crap) > >Actually I better get a radio in my Bird first! > >Thanks, Jeff. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: re uni-lug From: "earl staley" <87gta@altavista.com> Date: 20 Apr 2001 19:07:36 -0700 I use to have a set of kestone clasics that had the uni lug patern you use = to be able to go to any tire and rim shop that carried the kestne rims and = could get them . Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com
(back) Subject: save the F body? Nah, let it go! From: "Glenn Uettwiller" <birdman@gdi.net> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 22:43:28 -0400 Dan, I loved your comments regarding dollars saved, and actually your whole post was well articulated. Keith, to agree with you I can relate that when I committed to the book-of-the-month club for a 1995 Firehawk (purple, loud, and outrageous), the sticker was a few bucks shy of $32,000, non-negotiable. I traded a 94 Sonoma with equity, put several thousand dollars down, and financed for 66 months (5-1/2 years!) at $550 a month. Insurance was another $60 a month with a clean license. Tires at $300 bucks apiece were needed at 25,000 miles. When it became apparent that I wasn't making the kind of money early in a new career to justify this expense, I couldn't even dispose of the car for $17,000 at the one-year mark. Moral of the story: the financial attitude I had at the time that led me into these kind of decisions, and the problem of disposing of this car and a couple others, have finished off my finincial ruin. That explains the 5-year gap in my participating in the car hobby, such as trips to POCI and Trans Am Nationals and aquiring needed parts to finish cars. The best automotive investment I ever made was while I had the Firehawk, I bought this 1987 Pontiac Safari wagon for $1,000 as a family car to save wear and tear on the 'hawk. I've spent very little on it, and it's now got 208,000 miles, a real energizer bunny. It's a better SUV than most SUV's, it's been a better truck than the S-10 pickups and Blazers I've owned, and even better in many ways than the 3/4 ton Chevy pickup I had. It also carries 8 (eight!) full-sized humans out to dinner, and back even after we've eaten. It even takes corners and sweepers better than that Sunbird convertible I recently bought, and rides like a luxury car. It carries kids and furniture and Firebird parts - lots of them at once. It's as ugly as sin, and I can lend it to anybody without fear, and leave it unlocked about anywhere. That's freedom. My apologies for rambling to anybody who got here to the end. Glenn aka birdman Keith Donmoyer wrote: > > First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List > = ......................................................................... > Bird... > I tend to generally agree with you regarding the value/resale. That was = my > original point...shelling out 30k for a car that might be worth 20 2 = years > later. However, that is the root of the problem. There is not enough > demand for new F bodies, thus the lower demand and thus price for the = used F > bodies. The F body will dissapear because of this, and with that I also > struggle. Boy, what a dilema. > > Keith > 68 H.O.
(back) Subject: Cocktail Shaker's? From: "John Moore" <sirsaber@mcn.net> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 23:08:04 -0600 Okay, I give....what are these darn cocktail shakers?
(back) Subject: still looking... From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@qwest.net> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 23:39:08 -0700 ANYBODY have the correct screws/bolts for the top of the grill's on a `68 Bird ? I don't even know what they are supposed to look like. Are they hex, or philip's ? Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top
(back) Subject: Fw: Single to multileaf conversion. From: "Bad Acid" <bad-acid@pacbell.net> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 01:30:04 -0700 I'm reposting this, because I didn't get any responses to my first post. I would like to swap out my old funky cutoff traction bar plates, and = install the new polyurethane kit I bought, next weekend. I was hopeing to get some feedback from one of the experts on this list before then. I contacted a tech at Classic, Bob, and he said this would not be a problem. I do = however, trust the feedback I get from This list a great deal more. Thanks, Lance 67 400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bad Acid" <bad-acid@pacbell.net> To: "First Generation Firebird-L" <Firebird-L@oakmediacreations.com> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 11:38 PM Subject: Single to multileaf conversion. > I just bought a single to multileaf conversion kit from Classic = Industries > for my 67. The shock mounting plates that it came with will cause the shocks > to be offset. Is this going to be a problem? I know that the shocks = where > not offset originally on the 67, And I am wondering If this is going to > cause problems. Are the upper shock mounts in the same place on a 67 as = on a > 68? > > Lance > 67 400 coupe >
(back) Subject: convertible headliner From: "elrack" <elrack@email.msn.com> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 08:36:48 -0400 The interior of my convertible top is starting to look quite ratty but the exterior isn't bad. At least not enough to warrant me replacing it yet. I've been thinking about lining the inside with a felt material or = something along that line but I am not sure if I will have problems with folding the top. I've never seen a convertible with a headliner and I'm guessing = there is a reason for that. I also seen that CI carries a convertible top headliner but don't know anything about that either. So any opinions on this will be appreciated. Regards, Carl Reinhardt
(back) Subject: songs with the bird From: "elrack" <elrack@email.msn.com> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 08:37:31 -0400 I went to Highschool in the 80's and I owned a 68 bird. I Listened to Summer nights by VanHalen the most of any other song. To = this day it is still my favorite cruisin song. Other favs were Radar love by White lion Kickstart my heart by Motley Crue Highway to Hell by AC/DC Regards, Carl Reinhardt