First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List Parts by "Jamie Hutchinson" <jhutchi2@maine.rr.com> KSC-POCI Show... by "Reich, Jeffrey" <jreich@Ajilon.com> Re: Firebird-L Digest #1895 by "Charles Larsen" <chuck@countrybible.org> Got Brakes?? by "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Re: fine thread vs coarse thread control arm bolts is there a dif ference by "Jeff Frey" <FREYJ@mascorp.com> RE RE: Power Steering Adj by "Jeff Frey" <FREYJ@mascorp.com> Brake booster plating & rebuild by "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@qwest.net> Re: fine thread vs coarse thread control arm bolts is there a dif ference by "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Re: Re: fine thread vs coarse thread control arm bolts is there adifferen by "larry diede" <ldiede@bangkok.com> Original color - Re: Brake booster plating & rebuild by <Jimc2002@aol.com> Spring Cleaning by "Tom Sexton" <indy@quixnet.net> Re: Original color - Re: Brake booster plating & rebuild by "Jamie Hutchinson" <jhutchi2@maine.rr.com> Re: fine thread vs coarse thread control arm bolts is there a difference? by "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Re: Will 1967 326 heads work on a 1977 400 ? by "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Firewall Pad by "Ed Pittman" <e_pittman@juno.com> Power Tour update by "Hugo Tafel" <hugoptour@yahoo.com> 68 Deluxe Steering Wheel horn buttons by "Dale J. Barkla" <systech@tig.com.au> RE: Original color - Re: Brake booster plating & rebuild by "Trimpe, Bob" <TrimpeB@rajones.com> Re: Will 1967 326 heads work on a 1977 400 ? by "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com>
(back) Subject: Parts From: "Jamie Hutchinson" <jhutchi2@maine.rr.com> Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 09:55:00 -0400 Hey all, I'm doing some spring cleaning and am planning to move soon....so....I have parts that have to go. I have a complete set of seats for a '69 and most of the AC parts...check out the classifieds. http://FirstGenFirebird.org/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi Jamie
(back) Subject: KSC-POCI Show... From: "Reich, Jeffrey" <jreich@Ajilon.com> Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 10:36:18 -0400 On June 10th the Keystone State POCI chapter is going to have it's spring meet at Freysinger Pontiac in Mechanicsburg, PA. If anyone is interested = in more information, or for registration; please contact me. Thanks!!! Jeff Reich 'Guy in Charge of Car Show' 1967 Firebird Sprint 1968 Catalina
(back) Subject: Re: Firebird-L Digest #1895 From: "Charles Larsen" <chuck@countrybible.org> Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 10:28:41 -0500 I'm a new owner of a 1967 project firebird. Just about everything on the car needs to be restored or painted. It's a 3.8 liter, overhead cam = (sprint six). The hood emblems have been painted & repainted a couple of times so that I can't tell what the originals looked like. Can anyone tell me what = color to paint them? It seems I have several areas to consider. The bar itself on which the letters rest... does that stay chrome? Is it the color = of the car? The 3.8 liter is it black on chrome, or vice versa? Or is it white? I think the letters "overhead cam" are supposed to be white, but = I'm not even sure of that? I've tried to find pictures of one so I could see, but haven't been able to do so. Can anyone help? Chuck "For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord: Plans to prosper you, not to harm you. Plans to give you hope and a future." Jer 29:11
(back) Subject: Got Brakes?? From: "Keith Donmoyer" <kadonny@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 11:58:20 -0400 Chris, Where did you have your gold plating done? Did you go to the original = gold cad? Keith 68 H.O. Subject: Got brakes ??? From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@qwest.net> Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 17:41:23 -0700 Well, I got brakes now. Got my rebuilt, and newly gold plated, booster back. Got a new master cylinder installed. And presto ! The pedal feel's great, and stop's the car <<< bonus. No more RPM increase when I step on the brakes either. Now to get the non 400 hood painted to match, and I'm back on the road. :-). Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: fine thread vs coarse thread control arm bolts is there a dif ference? From: "Jeff Frey" <FREYJ@mascorp.com> Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 10:05:34 -0700 One more advantage to fine threads, from the view of an old harley rider (the bike is old, not me)....... is that fine threads resist vibration = very well, and are not susceptible to backing off. So if I have a choice, I = like to use fine thread bolts, and the nuts with the nylon locking ring. But this hasn't ever been a problem on my car. I think your h/w store friend is mistaken, if he is telling you that a = Grade 8 Fine is stronger than a Grade 8 Course. If he is telling you that a = Grade 8 is stronger than an original bolt.... then you need to look at the bolt rating by the indications on the head and see if it has a higher strength = or torque value than Grade 8. Most standard-type bolts have the different dashes on the top that show the type of bolt. The actual bolt strength and torque value is the same between fine and course, and is indicated by the marking on the head of the bolt (if they = are there). For instance, if you buy a grade 8 bolt, the material the bolt itself is made from is the same. And if the torque value you need to compress the material is 45 ft-lbs., then you will need to tighten to 45 ft-lbs., whether you use a fine or course bolt. This will result is less force per thread inside your nut, but will result in the same stress on = the bolt itself and on the materials being bolted together. - - Jeff
(back) Subject: RE RE: Power Steering Adj From: "Jeff Frey" <FREYJ@mascorp.com> Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 10:49:27 -0700 Thanks. the sway bar is not from the 81 TA, but i need to check to see = for sure what the doner is. i will try to get the rag joint for free in case = it works, and will holler if i need more help. i cannot seem to find = anything in the archives about the new p/n for it. i have searched "rag joint", "steering", "coupler", "isolator".... any other suggestions. - - jeff >>Frank: The sway bar wont work. Yes get the rag joint from the TA. The 80 TA rag joint worked on my 69 Firebird. A 1978 Z28 rag joint is = the same. >>Gary: If the 1-1/4 bar is from a later F body it wont fit. Rag joint is the rubber isolator disc. The late model one wont work.
(back) Subject: Brake booster plating & rebuild From: "Chris Porter" <fxstsb@qwest.net> Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 11:49:32 -0700 I had it done at a place called "Power Brake Booster Exchange", phone # 503-238-8882. He's located in Portland, Or. My booster was not gold plated when I got it, so I'm not sure how close it is to the way it came. But, a local member of our Firebird club sent me his way and said it was right on the money. I got it back in about 15 day's, all new gut's and plated in the gold pearl color. He was a good person to deal with. The price was $135 + $8 shipping. Not sure if it is the 'best' price in town, but didn't seem bad to me. Good luck Keith. Chris `68 350 H.O. Drop-top
(back) Subject: Re: fine thread vs coarse thread control arm bolts is there a dif ference? From: "x1r1 x" <x1r1@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 12:25:18 -0700 I don't know how I missed this earlier, but... since it is the nut that is not standard, you should try to get a bolt = that matches the thread on the original nut. it is an all steel(no = nylon)locking nut, and should be difficult or impossible to turn by hand. Rowan >From: Jeff Frey <FREYJ@mascorp.com> >One more advantage to fine threads, from the view of an old harley rider >(the bike is old, not me)....... is that fine threads resist vibration = very >well, and are not susceptible to backing off. So if I have a choice, I >like >to use fine thread bolts, and the nuts with the nylon locking ring. But >this hasn't ever been a problem on my car. > >I think your h/w store friend is mistaken, if he is telling you that a >Grade >8 Fine is stronger than a Grade 8 Course. If he is telling you that a >Grade >8 is stronger than an original bolt.... then you need to look at the bolt >rating by the indications on the head and see if it has a higher strength = >or >torque value than Grade 8. Most standard-type bolts have the different >dashes on the top that show the type of bolt. > >The actual bolt strength and torque value is the same between fine and >course, and is indicated by the marking on the head of the bolt (if they >are >there). For instance, if you buy a grade 8 bolt, the material the bolt >itself is made from is the same. And if the torque value you need to >compress the material is 45 ft-lbs., then you will need to tighten to 45 >ft-lbs., whether you use a fine or course bolt. This will result is less >force per thread inside your nut, but will result in the same stress on >the >bolt itself and on the materials being bolted together. > > - - Jeff > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
(back) Subject: Re: Re: fine thread vs coarse thread control arm bolts is there adifference? From: "larry diede" <ldiede@bangkok.com> Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 13:32:40 -0600 You are right in that the bolts made of the same material will have = similar physical properties in the cross sectional area of the bolt. i.e. = shear, elastic modulus, buckling, tensile and compressive strength. However, the type of thread can determine at which point the bolt will = fail under tension (treads stripped). It has to do with the amount of = material at the thread root and the aggregate shear shear loading when the = nut is torqued down. The ultimate shear also a product of the material = the nut is composed of and the deformation of the nut under load. For any given grade factor a bolt will fail up to a certain size due to = twisting off below the nut due to the reduced cross sectional area caused = by the cutting of the threads. i.e. the yield strength of the cross = sectional area is less than the yield strength of the thread roots in = shear. After a certain size is reached it will fail by stripping the = threads due to the shear strength of the thread roots failing. i.e. the = yield strength in shear of the thread roots is smaller than the yield = strength of the cross section. I hope this makes sense. It has been a long time since engineering = school. Larry Diede Denver, CO ----------------------------------------------- Thailand's BEST Free Email at Bangkok.com - http://mail.bangkok.com
(back) Subject: Original color - Re: Brake booster plating & rebuild From: <Jimc2002@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 16:04:40 EDT I had completely forgotten what the original color/plating of my power = brake booster was when I bought my '68 in 1969. When I started the cleaning off = the rust on my original (68) power brake booster I had assumed that I'd = find traces of the gold anodized look that restorers often use. I was = surprised to find most of the rust was only surface rust with some pitting. When it = was cleaned up I found that it was a bright silver (not chrome), more like = the chrome aluminum paints available. I used that paint to "fill" the pitting. The result is certainly not perfect but looks much fresher than = the rust coating. The comment/question is; were there both gold and silver = OEM boosters in the 1st Gen Firebirds? Jim 68 400HO Conv
(back) Subject: Spring Cleaning From: "Tom Sexton" <indy@quixnet.net> Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 15:18:07 -0500 Well my parents just moved and I got all my parts I forgot were in their garage and I need to get rid of a few. Interior for a 1969 firebird, standard parchment complete with door panels and side panels for rear seat. These parts have been sitting for 20 years = in a dry garage. Speedometer and gauge cluster for 1969 firebird with new printed circuit board. I am offering them first to the list than they go to ebay. If you have any questions email me off list indy@quixnet.net Tom Sexton 1969 Ram Air V Firebird
(back) Subject: Re: Original color - Re: Brake booster plating & rebuild From: "Jamie Hutchinson" <jhutchi2@maine.rr.com> Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 17:02:15 -0400 The original plating was Cadmium anodizing and was a gold appearance with hues of pink and green. Some restorers use a three color painting sequence to simulate it. See an Eastwood Catalog. Jamie >The comment/question is; were there both gold and silver OEM >boosters in the 1st Gen Firebirds? Jim 68 400HO Conv
(back) Subject: Re: fine thread vs coarse thread control arm bolts is there a difference? From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 16:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Brad writes: >I found near identical grade 8 bolts with fine thread along with the = locking >nuts at a hardware store. But the threads are fine. The guy there said = they >were actually stronger than coarse. Is this right? I found the correct >parts in a catalog for 5.50 a pop but is this necessary? I want to save >money but dont want to have problems later. Any fastener related to suspension should be considered mission critical. And none more so than the control arm bolts. How acceptable is a failure of this fastener. In my book, completely unacceptable. Grade 8 bolts are pretty strong, but probably not good enough for this job. If you look at a control arm bolt, it not only is pointed to facilitate the alignment of the holes in the subframe and the control arm, but also are thicker near the bolt head. This added thickness imparts greater strength to the fastener right where it is likely to experience the greatest shear load. A feature which none of the hardware store fasteners have. Another problem with the fasteners you find at your local hardware store is that there is a fair amount of fake grade 8 stuff floating around, and it's hard to determine what is real and what isn't. Even the purchasing agent at your local store may be unaware that the mfg. has decided to cut corners and unload junk hardware on him or her. I'll be honest and say that I have used a lot of grade 8 and stainless steel hardware on my car. But when it comes to certain areas, I take the safe route and get the stuff that GM designed and tested for the job. You're going to spend $20 or so to get these 4 bolts. But you'll sleep better at night knowing that this is one area you don't have to worry about. -BoB San Jose, CA 1968 convertible bob.cisneros@Sun.COM
(back) Subject: Re: Will 1967 326 heads work on a 1977 400 ? From: "Bob Cisneros" <Bob.Cisneros@Sun.COM> Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 16:41:56 -0700 (PDT) Mike in Michigan writes: >Will 1967 326 H.O. heads work on a 1977 400 ? They will physically bolt on. But the 52cc combustion chamber makes them unworkable with all but the most severely dished pistons in order to get a streetable compression ratio. The 326 heads did not get the improvements that the 400/428 heads got that year. Better chamber design, improved runner and port flow, etc. That's why you don't see 326 heads on any of the desirable head lists in various books or webpages. Pass on the 326 heads, and hold out for a different casting. Determine a chamber size that you need to get your target compression ratio, then look for the heads that'll get you there. -BoB San Jose, CA 1968 convertible bob.cisneros@Sun.COM
(back) Subject: Firewall Pad From: "Ed Pittman" <e_pittman@juno.com> Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 20:17:50 -0400 To all on the list who responded to my question regarding brake fluid, I really appreciate all of the input. It is always helpful to make a better informed decision. I have another question regarding the firewall pad for a '68 A/C bird. The replacement pad that I ordered from Ames covers the entire firewall even under the heater-air box. However, when I removed what was left of the original, there was no padding under the box all the way to the right kick panel. It appears as if the original pad is factory cut and not cut at some later time. If someone has had experience with replacing this pad I could use some help as to whether the pad does in fact cover the firewall under the heater box. Regards, Ed '68 400 conv.
(back) Subject: Power Tour update From: "Hugo Tafel" <hugoptour@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 19:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Hi Gang, Yesterday we went to Springfield MO. The tour stopped at a giant bass shop, if you can imagine that. It was a bit crowded but fun never the less. We had a tornado and hail warning last night so I kinda stood vigil over the car and when it started pouring I drove to a gas station down the street to park under their roof in case it hailed. I waited for about an hour till the storm flew over. Whew, what a relief. This morning we came to Tulsa OK. The show was held at a moose lodge but it's more like a park than the average moose lodge that I've seen. While there I walked to a parts store down the street and bought a small tach, I installed it and on the way to the hotel I was finally able to tell what the 4002R tranny is doing. I was doing 80 at about 2000 RPM! No wonder I can zoom at 110+ without a swaet. This is great. I still need to calculate the gas mileage. I uploaded some more images at http://www.apcom.com/fbody/ptour2001 Well, tomorrow is an early day. We're off to Amarillo TX. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/
(back) Subject: 68 Deluxe Steering Wheel horn buttons From: "Dale J. Barkla" <systech@tig.com.au> Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:44:27 +1000 I remember someone asking for one of these a couple of months ago. Check out : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D5873216= 40 cheers, Dale '68 Conv
(back) Subject: RE: Original color - Re: Brake booster plating & rebuild From: "Trimpe, Bob" <TrimpeB@rajones.com> Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 08:03:34 -0400 When I removed the booster from my 68, the back was silver cadmium = colored. I used a variety of paints to simulate this color when I re-did my engine compartment. (One day I'll spring for actual plating!) See my pics: http://www.geocities.com/bobtrimpe/Page6engine.html Regards, Bob Trimpe -----Original Message----- From: Jimc2002@aol.com [mailto:Jimc2002@aol.com] I had completely forgotten what the original color/plating of my power = brake booster was when I bought my '68 in 1969. The comment/question is; were there both gold and silver OEM boosters in the 1st Gen Firebirds? Jim 68 400HO Conv
(back) Subject: Re: Will 1967 326 heads work on a 1977 400 ? From: "Frank Zeller" <fzeller@tri-austin.com> Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 07:41:56 -0500 Yes, but it will be about 11 to 1 compression. You would need to use the = 67 push rods. >>> rockster37@hotmail.com 05/07/01 04:17AM >>> First Generation Firebird-L Mailing List .......................................................................... Will 1967 326 H.O. heads work on a 1977 400 ? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com