I have decided that since my 69 350 is a one owner (till now), numbers matching nearly original machine that keeping it as close to that for as long as possible is the plan. (In the late 70's the nose, bumper and radiator were replaced after a crash. The vinyl roof has been redone and the transmission was rebuilt.) Paint and all trim is original. In other words I'm not gonna drop in a 455. That being said with 77K on the engine it feels a bit tired. Sooner or later she will need a rebuild. If you're going to make some changes that would seem like a good time to do it. But how much "rebuild" can you get away with and still reasonably call it original? looking for opinion from people with these cars. I see 350 cars for sale all the time where they say "original" and the thing has an Edelbrock intake, 4bbl, headers, dual exhaust and upgraded gears and upgraded rims? I like the plan but where is the line? Question is... where is YOUR line? Would you call that car "original"?
This is one of those "opinion" questions. And, as we all know, opinions differ. Just depends on who you ask.
To me "all original'" would mean original block, heads, intake, & carb. I wouldn't consider that non-original internal engine parts would change the "all original" status. But, then the question arises: how many internal changes can you make & still call it "original" ? Is a stroker assembly & roller cam OK ? Or, are you limited to cast replacement pistons, resized cast rods, and a clone of the original cam ?
Then you have the term "numbers matching". Well, that would mean that the all the parts & their casting dates would need to be correct for the body. If you don't include the partial VIN, you could have a "numbers matching" engine, without having a single part of it that actually came in the car, from the factory.
Then I suppose you have "stock appearing", or "original appearing". All these terms mean different things to different people.
So, to me, unless I was just trying to build for maximum resale value, I'd build the engine for the performance level I wanted, and not try to keep or make anything original. I'd keep any original parts, for future sale with car. But I'd build the engine with whatever parts I wanted, for the Performance level I desired. But, this is just 1 man's opinion.
How about a 69 iron intake with a Q-Jet? Era appropriate but not "original"? Or a set of Rally II wheels from 69. Not the original steel with hubs but era appropriate. Closer to "original". Might make some folks think differently. No right answers here but fun to think about.
An all "original" car would include all the original components [other than wear parts] as it rolled out of the factory. The engine wear parts would be factory spec., [incl. cam & valve-train, ignition, accessories (ie: alternator P/S) etc.].
Whereas a "numbers matching" car is one that may have been restored or rebuilt but retained all of the specific part number parts. This would include the intake manifold, carb, trans. distributor etc. These parts can be replaced with a correct part number part.
Then there's "Resto-Mod" which is what I have. From the outside my car looks original, but I've replaced several parts with HP parts and/or aftermarket parts.
How about a 69 iron intake with a Q-Jet? Era appropriate but not "original"? Or a set of Rally II wheels from 69. Not the original steel with hubs but era appropriate. Closer to "original". Might make some folks think differently. No right answers here but fun to think about.
re: Wheels; To be be "numbers matching" they should have the correct 2-letter stamp which is year specific. Of course this is mostly based on what option package was ordered.
re: Intake & carb.; both have specific p/n's based on specific application. The carb p/n for a manual trans car is different than one for an auto trans.
I guess my thought was... does it mean anything to people, opinion I realize, if a car is modified using era appropriate parts as opposed to something else. I understand the definitions of original. Not the question.
Take my example of a 69 Firebird that came with a 2 bbl and hub caps. Is it somehow better in anyone's mind if it has Rally II wheels from 69', and a factory intake and 4 bbl from 69' as opposed to modern aftermarkets. Although I realize that is not "original" is it in any way better in your mind? For me it means something. I can't say I would pay much more for it but... i guess I appreciate the nostalgia in the effort. Honestly I think this will change with time. In 20 years from now when fewer cars are closer to "original" or "numbers matching" how we view them will change. Look at cars from the 40's and 50's. If they are modified with parts from the 40's we are much more tolerant of their status.
I asked one of my buddies who's a huge Ford guy that same question, looking for the right answer. He told me:
Is it your car, or are you just a custodian of automobile history? If it's your car, do as you like and peoples' opinions be damned. If you are going to be a custodian, get it back to original, and keep it that way so you can pass on that piece of history to another loyal custodian.
For me, that was an easy decision, as my Firebird is a genuine POS and it would take a lot to go back to original. And.. That being said...
If you want to keep the original parts, and the 350, pull it, and set it aside. I think Sal or Harold posted a link to a guy who manufactures Pontiac 400 and 455 long and short blocks. That's always an option. Buy a new block, build the HELL out of it and if you want to put it back, it just an engine swap.
Last edited by Lit3; 11/07/1601:40 AM.
1957 Thunderbird 289 1967 Firebird Base 461 1968 C-20 327
Been doing more digging. Turns out the car was in a fender bender in the 70s and then a more serious crash in the early 80's. Front end damage. Supposedly the old man bought another 69 to use as a parts car. Apparently banged it into something else more recently because both headlight surrounds are broken and the bumper doesn't sit right. I guess first step in to get somebody who really knows these cars to look at it and tell me what it what. Even if all the replacement parts were from the other bird must have been repainted? At least up front. I know the vinyl has also been redone. Got some detective work to do.