I have a 67 firebird that I’ve had in storage for nearly 20 years that I am starting to work on with my 8 year old son. I’ve pulled the subframe out of the car and was looking for suggestions on an aftermarket subframe. I’m wanting better handling, with safety in mind.
Any suggestions on brands/makes? There are a few options out there and I was hoping I could get some feedback on what you feel is best. I’m not saying money is not an issue, but I want a quality subframe.
I believe Ames sells repop stock subframes. I’ve had my ears open looking for some feedback on how they work out. I haven’t heard from anyone that went down that path. You should get one and report back. If you’re talking about aftermarket hot rod subframes, there are lots of options since camaros and novas share the same subframe. Depends how radical you want to go. I’m personally a fan of originality so I have little interest in the aftermarket stuff
The subframe does not dictate how the car will handle. Unless it's rotted out, clean it up put some new poly bushings in (6 of them) and look at Detroit Speed for new control arms. They allow more adjustability for a more modern wheel/tire package. And you can use coil-overs to adjust the ride height...new subframe money can be spent elsewhere.
The Firebirds were born in the era of the Funny car dragsters. They were designed as straight line dragsters. Cornering cars like the ones in F1 they aren't. Keep that in mind when you go shopping. There are many add on suspension options you can purchase to boost your front and rear suspension. Entry level systems come with larger front sway bars and harder body mount bushings.
I installed a large front sway bar and a rear sway bar. It was cool to drive with them on, but it came at a cost. Every fall my tire guy would have something to fix like bad/loose ball joints. It also cracked my front frame and rear frame.
Good luck
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I appreciate all the comments/suggestions so far. If you were to recommend a brand for a front subframe or even a full frame, what brands should I consider?
How the car handles corners is my main objective. Outside of brakes, maybe some parts of the interior, the rest of the car will remain 100% original as I purchased it, even though it’s not a #’s matching car.
DSE (you'd need to confirm if the DSE frame is compatible with the Pontiac engine mounting), SpeedTech, and Art Morrison make very good complete subframes, which are usually stiffer than factory, and include improved geometry built into the setup to not only help camber gain, but fix bumpsteer. Plus they're properly setup for coilover conversions (yes you can technically buy coilover kits for the stock subframes but most are very short on travel unless they include a weld-in extension that moves the mounting point up higher). I believe all those subframes mentioned are also narrower than stock, allowing fitment of wider tires that what would otherwise be possible.
Ridetech offers an upgrade to their front suspension kit for stock subframes called Tru-turn with special steering arms, tie rods, and spindles to get the proper camber gain while improving bumpsteer. And they do have a drop pocket in the lower a-arm which allows for proper travel with a coilover. If you went this route, it'd be good to fully weld the front subframe for strength. They also claim you can run a bigger tire, but not sure how that works the the subframe unless they're just limiting steering travel (thus sacrificing turn radius). Many of the other companies offering kits for stock subframes address only the caster and camber gain, but don't do anything to improve bumpsteer.
TCI and Heidt's make kits too, but the frames appear pretty flimsy, and I don't think they correct all the suspension geometry shortcomings. IMO they are more gimmick then performance.
For full frame, it's either Schwartz Chassis or Roadster Shop. Fantastic stuff, but the price comes along with it.
Nice that you're doing a project with your son. It can be a great bonding experience. But seriously, if you ever want to drive that car I would suggest you use the stock frame( if useable) and as many of the stock components with some decent upgrades as possible. The car can easily be made to handle far better than anyone without a professional racing license would need. Just my opinion but there's no such thing as replacing just the frame. By the time you crawl out of that rabbit hole you'd have more money in a car than any sane person would.
By the time you crawl out of that rabbit hole you'd have more money in a car than any sane person would.
100% The truth I been building cars for 35 years. Just buy a more modern car if you want something that handles good. Heck you can get a nice 4th gen car $3000 - $5000 that has 100% better suspension. Besides some of the bolt on junk doesn’t do anything but drain the bank account.
Thanks again for all the comments suggestions. I’ve been researching this and I have another question. If a guy were to purchase a new subframe or even rebuild the old one would you suggestion putting in subframe connectors?
Would that give you similar support as a full frame? Surely it would help support the body? Anyone have any experience going that route?
I checked into the full-frame and even though it’s something I might consider, it would come with a hefty price tag that I’m not sure is justifiable.
I would check out PST. The have all kinds of suspension and bushings etc to upgrade your front end or just bring the old one back to life. https://p-s-t.com/
Frame connectors are one of the first ( and best) upgrades that everyone does. Fairly inexpensive. Easy to install. And makes a big difference in stiffening the body. Especially a convert. A lot of guys go with solid body mounts at the same time but it's not really necessary for a street cruiser. Let me reiterate that it's a rather steep slope that you're starting down. You should sit down and decide exactly what it is you want this car to be when you finish it and then make your plan. Driver, cruiser, canyon carver, resto-mod. Make a list of upgraded parts that you will need to achieve your goal or you will waste a bunch of dough buying the wrong parts and then re-buying the right ones over and over again. Also realize that there is a point where the car becomes uncomfortable to drive on the street. Then what?
Just a little personal experience from someone who has been there and done that.
By the time you crawl out of that rabbit hole you'd have more money in a car than any sane person would.
100% The truth I been building cars for 35 years. Just buy a more modern car if you want something that handles good. Heck you can get a nice 4th gen car $3000 - $5000 that has 100% better suspension. Besides some of the bolt on junk doesn’t do anything but drain the bank account.
I agree. I picked up my door the other day. It had all the glass, pw etc, in it. It's really heavy. That's a lot of weight thrashing around. Take a door from a new sports car, it's one 10th the weight.
You buy these cars for the looks, the sound and the speed in a straight line.
Just say'n if gona buy a front performance suspension assembly, may as well get a full frame with rear performance suspension and be done it.
The rear suspension sucks for road handling. Even with frame connectors and sway bar. Have connectors with Herb Adams front and rear bars. Doesnt work well with original a-arms and springs. So I'm in the middle now myself.
With full frame can get many different configurations up to corvette level. Even set up with wheels and tires. Just remove front and rear suspension, axle, atc. and bolt body to new assembly. Then of course there brake and fuel lines ... Ya lot of $$$$, but just say'n...