Hi all. Glad to have found this forum. I have always liked 1st gen Firebirds and am at a point in my life where I am more seriously considering getting one. Looking forward to it, and to hopefully returning the favor to help others here.
I am not new to old cars, have had a few over the years. I do as much of my own maintenance and repairs as possible. I have a good understanding of these old cars but there are always questions and things to learn.
I am not set on originality as a main requirement. On one hand, I do fully understand the desires and values of originality but on the other hand, I see dealing with originality as a bit of a constraint on what you can do with a particular car. So I've been thinking to find one in good shape, prioritizing little or no rust.
'67 rag top, LS1/4L60, stainless headers, new front suspension, Ridler wheels, subframe connectors, updated headlights, digital gauges, quite clean exterior and interior.
The modifications done on this car are all things I would want to do. I might have gone with a different brake system, and I would prefer a manual trans, but the rest is pretty much exactly what I would do.
All along I've been thinking I would find a fix-r-upper. The more I have looked into it, with what you have to pay for anything that is just in basic good condition with no rust plus the modification I would want to do, it really adds up. Which has me thinking more about something like this that has been redone and done well with some minor things left to address.
Can you suggest any questions I should be asking? I want to find out more about the origin/home state of the car, source and mileage of the engine and trans, who did the suspension work and subframe connectors, how long it's been in this redone condition. Underneath looks fairly clean. I feel like the subframe connector welds would have been better. Is there anything else you can suggest I should be asking about?
By chance, is there anyone here in the Frasier MI area that could take a look or suggest a shop for a 3rd party look?
Am I crazy to consider something like this? How does a fairly well done car like this hold value over time if kept low mileage and in similar condition, or further improved? It's definitely a stretch on cost, but as I said, the more I think about it, to do the same on my own, I think I'd have more in one assuming a repaint and all the other work.
Thanks for any input. Sorry fo the long post, I know it's tedious...but thanks in advance!!
That's a lot of money for a non-original car. It all comes down to what you want, and I feel like you have written a pretty good description, so it would mostly come down to personal taste. I feel fgfs in general have had a pretty flat-line price trajectory in the past 5-7 years as far as value goes. In the mid to late '2000's, prices jumped quite a bit, then leveled off, if not dropped a bit after that. But there seems to be a definite uptick in value the past 6 months or so. Project cars have skyrocketed in price recently, similar to what you mentioned. Personally, I do not like the color of that car. It looks like primer to me, but to each his own. Getting these cars as close to stock original has always been my personal goal. Part of the 50+ year old car driving experience, is well, experiencing what it was like to drive them back then. Rattles, squeaks, hard suspension, driving down the road with your favorite AM station blaring, etc are all part of the 'smiles per gallon' experience. I admire all the expertise it takes to cram a modern drive-train into an old car like that, but its not cheap, and takes a long time. And it will always be questionable and doubtful that you would ever hope to recoup the $$ put in unless its a labor of love. As far as questions about that particular car, you seem to have covered the important points. As far as holding value, old cars (meaning typical, non super rare types) seem to flow with the overall National economy. Modified ones can be less, or more, depending on each person's taste. That is what makes modified cars hard to get under your thumb. I think original cars with original parts will always be worth more, but that is just my opinion. What appeals to each person likely varies greatly in a crowd. Good luck with your search, if you are interested in something much more original in that price range, let me know.
I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not sure. I feel like I am diagonally parked in a parallel universe. 1968 400 convertible (Scarlet) 1976 T/A - 455 LE (No Burt) 1976 T/A New baby, starting full restoration. 1968 350 - 4 speed 'vert - 400 clone (the Beast!) 1968 350 convertible - Wife's car now- 400 clone (Aleutian Blue) (Blue Angel) 2008 Durango - DD 2008 GXP - New one from NH is AWESOME! 2017 Durango Citadel - Modern is nice! HEMI is amazing! 1998 Silverado Z71 - Father-daughter project 1968 400 coupe - R/A clone (Blue Pearl) (sold) 1967 326 convertible - Sold 1980 T/A SE Bandit - Sold
Thank you for your reply and thoughts. I take everything I get into consideration. I am not set in stone on what I want.
It's good info for me to ponder. I actually do like the color, have always been into grays and silvers. As you say, personal taste.
I appreciate the desire to get them as close to stock as possible. I can understand where you are coming from on that. One of my interests is performance which sometimes necessitates, or at least brings to bear the idea of newer technology etc. To aim for top tier performance in the realm of original equipment usually means really big money - think Trans Am, Boss 302, Shelbys....etc. So that is why I've opened my mind to a modified car with some modern tech.
But your point about long term value is something to consider, and I don't know what kind of negotiating room these folks may have yet.
I appreciate original cars and respect the work it can take to fully restore one correctly (whoever coined the phrase, "anyone can restore a car, but it takes a real man to cut one up," obvious never tried to do a correct restoration).
That being said, my own taste (in what I would prefer to own or drive) would fall under the resto-mod or protouring type. So, I understand where you are coming from. My car may have upgraded suspension, brakes, and powertrain, but it still takes me back when I go for a drive.
As far as that particular car, you'd probably have a bit of a difficult time duplicating it for the price as it sits even with you doing most of the labor. Looks really clean (I actually love the color!). I'm wondering if the tubular arms are brand name or cheap knock offs, same with the coil overs. And the brakes, although upgraded to discs, seem like they're small (like meant for people trying to stick with 14/15" rims). Looked like at least one set of leaf spring bushings could use replacement. But overall, a really nice driver-level restoration. And the LS1 swap appears to be clean. I'd want to make sure the factory wire harness was replaced with new while they were doing the swap. No rips or tears in the top or it's seams. Are the floor boards original or replacement? You mentioned some other things that I saw as well.
My personal feeling, from what we can see in the pictures,private party low $30s would be a fair price to pay. Since this appears to be a retail seller, start there and maybe aim to end up in the mid-30s. I'd keep looking if you can't get them under $40k, unless you really love it.
I'd be glad to. I'll see what I can find out. Some of the pictures, most really, don't do it justice. They have a walk around video of it, it's definitely got something of a blue tinge to it.