As some may have read, i am putting an inground pool in soon.Right now i am about to build a new wood fence at the rear of my property.I am looking to level my backyard as it slopes downward and would like to build up the back portion about 1 and a half feet. My plan was to set the posts and then place forms to pour a concrete and rebar wall across the back and then build the fence from there upwards.My dilemna is there is currently a half a$$ed chainlink fence up.It is just on the inside of the property line. My neighbours father put it up a couple of years back.I offered to help and pay for half but he said don't worry about it.He has since deceased.His daughter and son in law + grandkids live there (and were there at the time of it being built) I agreed to have a gate in there for our kids to play since they were litlle at the time but that was a HUGE mistake.I voiced my concerns for my privacy for other kids using my backyard as a laneway to go play in their yard when i was home,entertaining friends and family or not at home and to this day i get from the daughter that it is her fence.The gate is chained and locked. I have no problem with that but in order for me to make a proper wall i will need access to form it and that means taking down the chainlink and putting it back up or giving up some of my property and then not being able to tie into the existing two side fence posts i have built. Part of me says bow down and ask permission but the other part of me wants to just build a double 2x10 nailed to the posts and fill the gaps and then backfill,put up the fence and have my kids paint on it "how do you like my fence".I would like to do it properly.I really do not care what it looks like as they will be the only ones seeing it as my end will be buried. Should i go with the wood 2x10's doubled up? Oh, i am footing 100% of the bill.I probably will need to build another 60ft fence in front of this one as they have tucked a nice composter next to the fence(coincidentally close to my current pool) and this is a climable object providing access to my backyard as per city bylaw.
What about cinder blocks?

David

Do whatever you want on your property. Ask your neighbor where she wants her 'removed fence' to get piled. I get the feeling here that they will wait for you to leave and jump in the pool! You gotta take control in a legal, orderly way. IMO

one and a half feet as in 18" +_...can you get hold of railroad ties? they make a good retaining wall, stack two,= around 16-18" put a galvanized bracket to hold them together and berm up to them....you can get a few short (12" -20")galv pipe cols and insert to ground to make sure the ties dont move.you can put galv pipes 8' tall there too and clip on attachments for new fence runners, to attach new wood fence on your new height...using the bottom of the pipe cols as brace for ties and abv the ties your fence..
depending on length , you can stagger the upper ties over the lowers...just an idea, but easy to work with, and you get a fairly long piece done at a time...I once did this in one of my back yards to create a berm, hope its not explained too weird..lol

Just did exactly what Bjorn explains. The trick is to get really good ties. It's heavy work. Some of the ties weigh 250 lbs. I used 10 inch spikes to hold them together.

The tie idea is a good one. Another option for tying them together is galvanized stock. If you use the RR ties, be sure to anchor them into the ground & then into each other, like Bjorn & Jim were saying.

I bury the first row. Your arms feel like rubber after you pound in a bunch of those spikes.

And a finishing touch to discourage climbers: I have heard of people nailing carpet strips along the inside top edge of their fence. The nasty ones put the points down.

As a builder that deals w/ this all the time, as Richard Dawson used to say- And The Survey Says..............

RR Ties may be the most cost effective way to go, and should last as long as you would need. Usually I wouldn't go that route as I just removed about 40 full length RR ties that had been a 4 ft retaining wall for 20 years, and they were in pretty bad shape. (But for 20 years in Seattle rain that's not bad)

I replaced them (and then some!) with the large landscaping blocks This new wall runs across most of my back yard and all the way down the side yard between my neighbors place (their property is higher) The ties were a piece of cake compared to these (22 pallets in all) @72lbs per block... Anyway this wall will last much longer.





Usually I'd recommend the Wall Blocks, but for the use you need them for, the RR Ties would fit the bill and the space much better I would think...

I wish you luck...

Brett!

Thanks for the replies.My friend asked me if i wanted some railroad ties but he said they are starting to mush
How well would the ties hold up to the moisture?
I don't mind using wood if it will hold up for a good amount of time.And i don't want the neighbours to complain about any runoff, etc... I definitely would bury a row and then a layer or two.
The current chainlink fence is on their property,butted up agaist both my side posts.
Jim, for the past 5 years they keep telling their kid who tells my kids (while swimming in my current above ground pool) that our pool is small and how they are going to get a bigger one than us, so i guess their will be no need to climb my fence
Carpet strips would be a very nice touch
I can't even get the big auger in there because of this chainlink fence, have to rent the baby version but it should work o.k. better than digging it by hand.
Brett, i just noticed your post.Nice wall.Cosmetically i don't care as my yards dirt will do all the looking.The only visible side is on the neighbours side and again, too bad for them.
Survey says the current fence is on their side.I just do not like the childish games the neighbours daughter plays with me about it being her fence.Grow up and move your family into your OWN house and stop living off mommy.They have lived their since 1966.


David

David , if you get fairly good RR ties they should last past your ownership of that house! 15-20 yrs..dont get ones that started to deteriorate, but they are impregnated, will last "forever"...lol...think about their use...on the ground, in the ground to about 2/3...you dont see them being replaced too often..some garden stores may have them to sell, if you cant find free...

Wood usually doesn't last as long as you would like, Discount treated timbers usually doesn't have the same amount of treating as non discount, check the %. Go with concrete or similar, most people end up where they are much longer than they plan.........

Yeah, go for the ties to build it up as high as you need, then build the fence as you want and call it good.

I'd maybe bite the bullet and ask if you could move the fence while you do the retaining wall, then when the work is done, reposition "their" fence... and build yours. If they ask, tell them you just decided at the last minute to "add" a fence of your own.

Brett!

I`d use the galv. pipe col. fence posts
as stabilizers for the ties too, then put fence on to them...

But if i take the fence down i'd have to put it back the same way it was right? Well i'd need to drink a couple of 24's of Canadian beer first and then put the posts back in on an angle and forget to put the stringer or metal rail along the bottom to keep it secure and tight(oops they forgot to do that.) I think it would be too much work for me to ask for the kind of quality workmanship out of myself so i think i'll pass on asking to take it down
I plan on being in this home until a backhole has to dig a hole for me and not a pool.
My friend who is a concrete guy (builds highrises and such) is supposed to come over and have a look.Maybe i can slide/slip in a 1/4 plywood overlay for their side of the concrete wall to use as a form and hope it holds till the concrete sets
Sometimes it sucks being a stubborn SOB!

David

David

the rr ties will last a long time as they are soaked in creasole. an oil based resin that help prevent roting and water absorption. it will work good for your job. tear down the fence as she has no right telling you what to do with your house....phug her!!

RR ties rot away quickly, and the 20 year lifespan that was mentioned was an unusually luckey and long lifespan. (Their treatment is designed for out-of-the ground applicaions, resting on a well drained foundation. If you bury them, you might as well use the cheap pine or popular that's sold as dimensional lumber.)

Labor, effort, and short lifepsan makes any burried wood cancels any cost savings, even if you get brand new ties for free.
A dry-stack block as Brett used, or some stone material, is the only way to go. Cemented walls are poor choices because hydralics will make almost any cemented wall fail.

One material that has proven most effective and attractive is old rubble concrete, 4" to 6" thick. This is just as, if not more, cost effective than wood, it's eaiser because of handling/fastening, and it looks better than hokey looking rr ties.

Batter the structure and use same building protcall that is required with any dry-set stonework, such as foundatin, drainage, and chinking. You can cut it to size with random fractures or use a concrete saw for symertical blocks. If you want a more natural look on the face, you can use a brick-set hammer to "weather" the face.

Unlike the tempoary structure of wood, this type of wall will last for hundreds of years if built properly.

treated wood foundations (as part of the building code) were (before the new teqnique of preservative, the old pressure treated ) guaranteed for 30 yrs , and those werent even creosoted, just wolmanized...

I think you could make your point without using gross exaggerations like comparing treated railroad ties to untreated poplar or pine.
And saying they look hokey....
Why would you want to insult those of us that have them in our yards? Some of us obviously like the way they look. I can think of a lot of words(not very nice words) to describe your post here BUT I'm not going to say it out of respect(even for someone that shows none). Have a little respect for others......

"Hokey"?
Several apartment complexes here in town , designed by architects, had RR retaining walls as part of the design , "some" people like the looks...many homes have them for garden designs too (which this case would be)....personally I had a split one ( in half , the long way) hanging from chains with 10 holes driled out , candles in those holes, makes nice decoration..I guess all "tastes" arent the same...

Here's my walls and fences. I had to much linear footage to go with anything but ties. I had to also go lesser grade due to 250 of them, and I've had to replace a few here and there over the last years. After 10 years I started have some issues, but not the lower ones, just the ones on top.
Brick wall around my pool I have treated fences between post for privacy and iron to see my yard.

I can't stress enough that it's got a lot to do with the quality of the ties you get. I just bought a dozen and their weights ranged from around 50 pounds to upwards of 200 pounds. You get some of those 'whoppers' that are soaking up all that creosote and they will last a long, long time. You get some of the ones that are 'light weight' and they probably will not last very long. I think they look really nice. Maybe I don't have any taste in designing but when I come around the corner of the house and see the small retaining wall it's pleasing to my eyes. I think the pics above are beautiful and very natural looking. Man! That must have been a LOT of work!

wow what a beautiful yard you have HO428.you did a great job.

Thanks, however my back will never be the same after that. The wife and I built that wall. It continues on around the house another 50 feet.

ho428, that looks great! Nice yard , nice retaining walls... a lot lower version of that was what i invisioned for Davids....

and in my "professional" opinion , it looks very Architectural!

I think my taste is ok, most my clients think so, and on top of that I own a Firebird!

sweet place ho428... if you did it manually im sure you had a few pain pills after that job!!

There are plenty of retaining walls around here, some timber, some block. Some of the timber walls are 30+ feet high and have been in place 30 years or so. Stacked masonry are within the last 5 years, with one dividing terrace, also 30+ high. Masonry walls have both buckled in sections and have required partial rebuilding. The ties, which have full ties embedded long way into the hillside, are in fine shape.

David,was thinking you could use large concrete blocks 2'x2'x4'long .you can get them from local ready mix yards as they make them from left over ready mix.not sure on the price but once in place they won't budge and they interlock.we use some on the farm been in place for 15y and still look good.one drawback is they are heavy and would need a good sized loader to move them.

Personally, I've dealt with the RR Ties enough that I couldn't wait to get rid of them and replace them with the block. As with most projects, any retaining wall will last and do it's job well if the area is properly prepared and the wall is built correctly and with in it's limits.

But after all were only talking about a 2 foot tall wall, so pretty much any of the materials mentioned that have longevity will work just as well as the next. It just comes down to personal preference, availability and cost (maybe cost should top the list)

Hope your friend can hook you up with a good solution!

Brett!

I terraced mine because a single wall would have been to tall, and it does give it more of an architectural look.
Plus dealing with building such a tall wall would have probably required machinery. We built it with Ibuprofen and beer. Lots of both.
We inquired about pulling it down should it get real bad, but the cost just for block material is to much to think about. And personally I think to much block looks to sterile. The right amount is a very classy looking.
But I agree, a two foot wall can be about anything. Just make it blend with the surroundings. The far end of my pool is a two foot high, two brick thick reatainer with a wood fence on top. The rest is only about one foot. This brick matches the foundation of the house and garage. The tie wall was just the best, (I won't say easiest) to retain such a long and tall hill.

I was just going to suggest the Allen block as well Brett...but David, as you don't really care WHAT your neighbours see, go for the ties as you won't see much other than the top once its backfilled. Ya may want to use some gravel along the ties for drainage (into your neighbours yard...YES!).

I have two retaining walls of brown PISA Stone block for my sunken driveway. Nice looking stuff.

Thanks for all the ideas. I looked into railway ties and i can only find were 3x5x8' @ $7 a piece and 6x6x8' @ $25 a piece.I was hoping to find the real chunky ones.I asked a co-worker if he knew where i could get any and he said there was a pile of them stacked along the railway if i wanted to chance it LOL

David

Price around here for 1st grade 6 x 6 ties used is about $12 apiece. New, $25 sounds about right. I bought grade 2 and 3 for $4 each since I bought so many but that was many years ago.

I looked down the tracks several times myself, thinking hmmmm.

You should be able to get the large black creosote treated real ties at a proper landscape supply yard, rather than Home depot.

Thats what you want for that application, the green treated 6 x 6's and 8 x 8's will rot within 10 years...I know!

without checking , my memory tells me "real" RR ties are about 10 x 10?

8 by 8 at least, you are right. We have them piled along the rails here in Tennessee and Kentucky all the time. Minimum 8 by 8, but new ones are probably 10 or even 12 by 12.

Dave, the ones from Lowes rot in FOUR years or less here in Tennessee. You have to go with the tar-oil industrial ones to have any longevity.

Your right..the RR ties are like ly 10 x 10 +..but thats what you want. and as I said earlier and nash confirmed, the green treated ones are OK above ground, but as a retaining wall...useless.

Whatever material you decide on, make sure you provide drainage.