Have a look and let me know what you think. Maybe you can see something I missed and let me know what you think it's worth.
Green 69 vert My synopsis:
Has many new parts not completely installed:
- full floor pan
- full trunk (never looked in trunk)
- upper dash
- outer wheel wells
- frame partial rails
- seat braces
- floor braces
- donor tail panel
- inner tail panel
Damage/replace/fix parts
- inside dash
- upper dash
- both quarters
- front fenders look ok
- doors look ok
- inner wheelhouses could be ok
- frame wells look good
- inner rockers LH RH (partials)
- vert frame (top)
- vert pump
- rad support
- rear tail panel
- upper & lower cowl
- firewall extensions
- plastic dash speedo
- rearend unknown but has been painted
- rear end not installed on leaf springs properly
Missing parts
- no dash at all
- no wire
- no hood
- interior trim parts
- no rear seat
- side vents
Misc. original parts
- 4 factory rims
- 2 + 1 black seats (standard) /wo head rests
- wiper valance
- standard interior panels
- steering box
- front suspension /w unknown condition
- alternator & starter
Thanks for your input ...
What does the vin and body tag say?
No engine or transmission either?
Maybe $2000 - $2500
I give you guys who look at these cars and are willing to take on such a project a ton of credit. I look at that and the first thing I think of is 35k to restore this car. I can't even imagine taking on a project like that. But I'm glad there are people who do, puts more Birds back on the road.
If that were me, I would consider the brand new shell/body from Dynacorn, 15k and it puts you 80% of the way there the day it arrives!
I give you guys who look at these cars and are willing to take on such a project a ton of credit. I look at that and the first thing I think of is 35k to restore this car. I can't even imagine taking on a project like that. But I'm glad there are people who do, puts more Birds back on the road.
If that were me, I would consider the brand new shell/body from Dynacorn, 15k and it puts you 80% of the way there the day it arrives!
a local friend did....its not quite that easy....he has almost $100k in his now, looks good , but LOTS of work to get that Dynacorn body to fit right, get all the Firebird stuff on it ,then paint it....this was done before Dynacorn got the Firebird stuff.
I agree with Doug. 2k wouldn't go far. I'd keep looking for something a lot more complete for 5-6k.
Unless you have the capability to perform most of the restoration, I would pass. You could find a complete 69 with correct 400 engine and trans in much better shape for $8-12k
I agree that by the end of the restore, you will be out $30-40k (it adds up) Unless this car was a rare Bird would I take that car on.
or buy it for a parts/barter car..
If you buy it for parts, let me know I see a few items I'd be interested in
What does the vin and body tag say?
No engine or transmission either?
Maybe $2000 - $2500
No drivetrain. He paid $4k + shipping for what you see.
1969 Pontiac Firebird Convertible
The paint was
Verdoro Green with Black convertible top.
The trim color and material were Black Vinyl.
This car has the Fisher Body Unit Number 515,106 built in the 2nd week of November at the Lordstown, Ohio plant.
BODY BY FISHER
ST 69- 22367 LOR 515106 BODY
TR 208 11 B 73B PAINT
I give you guys who look at these cars and are willing to take on such a project a ton of credit. I look at that and the first thing I think of is 35k to restore this car. I can't even imagine taking on a project like that. But I'm glad there are people who do, puts more Birds back on the road.
If that were me, I would consider the brand new shell/body from Dynacorn, 15k and it puts you 80% of the way there the day it arrives!
The trouble with the Dynacorn body is you CANNOT put the old FB body tag & vin on it. So it's at best a RESTOMOD type of car.
I agree with Doug. 2k wouldn't go far. I'd keep looking for something a lot more complete for 5-6k.
I'm trying to rescue these cars from the crusher. I want to try and hang onto as many as I can till they are feasible for restoration. There were only < 12,000 made in 1969!
I can tell you first hand, the cowl tag and vin plate alone are worth 2k and here is why. You take a guy who is building a Dynacorn car, although you are not supposed to use vin & cowl tags from an old car, people definately are. Think about it, you buy a Dynacorn body, put a new or used front clip on it, all new interior etc. Complete the car 100%, install the vin plate & cowl tag, providing the original car was never scrapped, who at the DMV would know if it had been rebodied? Nobody. Even here in FL where the DMV employee comes out and verifies the VIN, these people wouldn't know a rebodied car from a restored original etc.
Not too mention, the guys buying/building the Dynacorn cars will have a tough time registering their cars without a VIN. Some states will allow it under a custom build etc. but if you have the choice to buy a "valid" VIN plate & matching cowl tag, why wouldn't you?
I beleive I have seen this car at Old Town (greatest cruise night in the U.S.). If it's the same car, it is full of bondo and the paint is not Verdoro Green...
I can tell you first hand, the cowl tag and vin plate alone are worth 2k and here is why. You take a guy who is building a Dynacorn car, although you are not supposed to use vin & cowl tags from an old car, people definately are. Think about it, you buy a Dynacorn body, put a new or used front clip on it, all new interior etc. Complete the car 100%, install the vin plate & cowl tag, providing the original car was never scrapped, who at the DMV would know if it had been rebodied? Nobody. Even here in FL where the DMV employee comes out and verifies the VIN, these people wouldn't know a rebodied car from a restored original etc.
Not too mention, the guys buying/building the Dynacorn cars will have a tough time registering their cars without a VIN. Some states will allow it under a custom build etc. but if you have the choice to buy a "valid" VIN plate & matching cowl tag, why wouldn't you?
Because it's illegal.
See
Press release This sort of thing will hang over the restorers head forever. It will also sully the restoration industry as a whole. The current owners have a FB knowing that only "X" no. of them exist as original. Flood the market with fakes decreases the value of the originals. We need an industry standard made for the creation of a Dynacorn FB with a valid donor dna. Like the "69 Spirit". Maybe call them "Dolly birds". You know...after the sheep.
Personally I don't see where it's any different that taking a completely toast body and replacing all the floor pans, doors, quarters, roof, fenders, hood, etc. etc. In fact, by using a new Dynacorn body, you'll actually end up with a safer car than if you did all of the above. I just don't see a problem with it myself. I had a guy offer me 2k for my tags when we parted out the Bird. With as good shape our car was still in, I wouldn't have done it.
I agree with Joe. No worse than taking an overhead cam car turning it into a 400 car. The problem arises when someone tries to decieve you into believing it is 100% original for the monitary gain. How many copy 69 ta cars have you seen people say are true ta cars. It ain't like the dynacorn bodies are $5k so not evryone will be rushing out to buy one.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you both but we need it to be recognized as a Dynacorn rebirth with the old and new body tag.
I can tell in less than 15 secs if a car is a Dynacorn by looking at the firewall.
the daynacorn thig is sold as a replacment part anyways given a blessing by gm.. to bad the 69 ta trim tag terry had got thrown out and/or went missing.
vin and tag swapping is ILLEGAL. And I don't condone it at all, any one that does makes the forum look bad ( saying it's OK )
I agree in that as long as it is illegal, it is wrong.
But to take a properly tagged, clear title car and have no recourse in the event of a crash that creates damage that is too severe to repair the original body or in the case of extensive rust other than to scrap the car is wrong too.
Yes, you can present your newly rebodied car for issuance of a new VIN, but I believe that this process will negatively affect the value of a collector car permanently. I would be willing to pay a significant fee to have my car inspected by a licensing authority before rebody or cowl/jamb repair, then to have those original tags officially reapplied or reissued to the new body after another inspection, and surrender the removed parts for destruction. This would ensure that another car could not be "born" from the remains.
It will take legislative action in order for this to be a possiblity, and Hagerty insurance has a legislative action group. If we were to put together a petition and present it, with evidence of widespread support, to Hagerty, perhaps they'd add it to their actions list.
Well, that's why it is still allowed (for now) for everyone to have their own opinion. I just don't see why rebodying an old POS with a brand new, well constructed body is worse than taking an old rusted out shell, welding in new floors, rockers, quarters, then buying all new front end sheet metal and putting it all together.
What exactly is it about the new shell vs. repairing one that should be scraped? Don't make sense to me. But I guess my opinion on this is making the forum look bad so I guess I should just drop it. Please don't tell me this forum is heading towards the PY style. LOL Unreal...
Not too mention, I'd be willing to bet a rebodied car using the Dynacorn shell, would be much safer and fair better in a crash than the above mentioned patched/welded car that some guy who's never used a welder before in his life built in his car port. But I guess safety takes a back seat to reusing an old rusted out shell etc. I'm not condoning selling such a car as an all original car when it's not. But I don't see how the Dynacorn shells can possibly be so bad and these terribly illegal contraptions, if they were so "bad" for the hobby do you think GM would give their approval?
I agree that the Dynacorn is most likely light years ahead of the average home-assembled patched body in terms of accuracy of assembly, consistency of welds, and making sure all the structural items are in fact structural. I agree that the unibody is simply one very large and expensive repair part, rather than a car.
One big reason that moving tags is prohibited is the ease at which a stolen car could be hidden with the simple change of two tags. Making it taboo to do so may be intended to discourage the practice, much as banning guns stops criminals from having them.
I would not agree with the practice of taking loose tags, affixing them to a newly assembled vehicle constructed of reproduction parts, and calling it genuine.
The Dynacorn shells are not illegal. There is no problem with using these shells and getting a new VIN issued through the DMV.