My 69 bird needs floors and I don’t weld.... Looking for other alternatives other than welding.... maybe a good mobile welder......( cheap too... lol ) Rivets and panel sealer...?? Not going to be a show car...... Daily driver... Thank you
You could try to rivet them but it looks like your going to be really close to the pinch weld on driver side They sell left and right half’s you would have to cut back to good metal and overlap the edges an inch or so and seal all the edges with seam sealer
First I have to wire wheel floors to see how far rust goes.......( really does not look to bad.... ) Leave a one inch border around the “holeâ€......... rivet ( stainless steel rivets ) new pan to that border...... should I make four pans or replace each side ( left and right ) tunnel looks ok..... Also would have to remove and reinstall the seat pans.... Then seam seal all the new metal and paint whole floor.... New metal..... complete pan or left and right halves... Thank you all Any more tips or details to look for.....??
There's no way to do it right without cutting that out and welding in new. You can patch it with lots of stuff that will sort of work but eventually will be a Flintstone car. If you want do do it cheap just put some carpet over it and don't drive it in the rain. Sell it when you get tired of it.
There's no way to do it right without cutting that out and welding in new. You can patch it with lots of stuff that will sort of work but eventually will be a Flintstone car. If you want do do it cheap just put some carpet over it and don't drive it in the rain. Sell it when you get tired of it.
I plan on using new floor or half pans ........ Also I am removing all the bad metal........Just looking for tips on how to attach without welding......( do’s and don’ts )It’s not going to be a show car so not really worried about the look just that the floors are in ........however I attach it I also planned on sealing every new seam........ Thank you again for all help and advice......
My 69 Firebird has fiberglass replacement floor patches of some sort under the rear seats and one in the front. They were put in with some sort of real heavy duty silicone. It wasn't my doing. Although I haven't experienced and "problems" with them I think it is a patch at best. They offer no rigidity and no real support for the floor. That being said they have been in there for over 10 years. I can't imagine why that was a better option at the time but maybe it was cheaper and easier than a whole new floor pan? Either way I look forward to the day I can right the wrong.
What about panel bond? I've seen body panels attached with a bond, just like applying caulking with a caulking gun. Quarter panels, fenders, rockers, box sides etc all attached with bond. Maybe if your overlap was enough? Haven't used it myself but have seen repairs done without an inch of weld. I think Bentley, or one of the other British cars, use only panel bond when manufactured.
I’ve done a bunch of rust repairs on a Firebird and a GTO. My philosophy is to only remove the rot and piece in patches with lap joints. Leave as much original metal as possible. Chinese replacement panels are mostly crap so minimize them. I end up with solid sturdy repairs with less dimensional issues than replacing whole floors, trunk pans, and quarter panels. Doesn’t look as slick from the back or underside as the skilled professionals but good enough for me. For floor work, just make it sturdy. The top has carpet and people don’t slide underneath to look at the underside of the floor
I’ve considered that in the past but never did it. If the floor is basically solid and sturdy with just pinholes I think that might be a decent option.
Think about sucking it up and buying a welding setup. Prob about $700 for a decent MIG setup with 75-25 Ar CO2 shielding gas. Welding with MIG is not that hard. It may not look pretty but it won’t be visible for floor repairs
They offer a welding class at a local vocational school through adult ed. I've been wanting to take it but its not cheap. I really should suck it up and do it. No doubt it will quickly pay for itself. My grandfather was a welder and I spent a lot of time with him growing up. I kick myself for not learning more from him. At the time he seemed way more interested in giving me lawn mowing and hedge trimming lessons! Hmmm...
Its really simple all you need is 3M Panel bonding adhesive and some seam sealer all around the edges
So I will still need floor pans..... cut to fit my holes 🕳 from removing all the rust ....... also in addition to the seam sealer I would also use stainless steel rivets...... and then POR 15 over it......... If I just use the POR 15 kit I would not have to send so much money for pans and sealer and ....etc..... Just don’t know much about the POR 15 kit...... Also I retain more of my original floor.......
Depending on how much rot there is.... If it's just a few small holes you could just hit it with a small sanding disk and clean off the crusty stuff and patch with fiberglass resin. When you have bigger areas of rot I would cut it out the best you can and patch with metal. Floor pan sections are not that expensive. You can trim off what you need from the new section and glue them down. Also depends on how much humity there is by you, any exposed metal will rust that's why you need to seal any gaps with seam sealer. Even when you use products to treat any rusted areas, it depends how rusted it is. Makes no sense to treat rusted metal if is is so thin you can poke your fingers right through it.
Just finished the pass side floor yesterday. Floor pans are fairly cheap but it’s a lot of work to put one in for sure.
The cars are made and assembled as UNIBODY construction. Every panel connection needs to be properly welded to support the load. I bunch of old rust panels held together with road sign material and rivets and/or adhesive won't keep your car together for very long.
Been there, done it. I kept my coupe car for over 30 years before I attempted to do the 2nd restoration Opened her up and nothing but rust.
I got the vert professionally welded and it turned out great. Even measured the chassis and against the body and it was very close to GM required specs.
Like firebob said, por15 isnt the answer for that. If you had a little surface rust then yeah, thats why it stands for paint over rust, not paint over rust holes. Your best bet is to cut out that section and buy some replacement panels, hire someone that knows how to weld. The panels arent that expensive at all.
Look dude if you want to fix it with Por15 then I say go for it. You've already got the best advice you're going to get. I've used Por15 before and it's fine for pinholes and cracks but it doesn't last forever and things like brake fluid will eat it up. Beside that there's no strength to it so something you're going to put pressure on like the floor is not going to work. Think of it like a thick paint. But you won't know till you spend a couple of hundred on supplies and are disappointed by the results. Or maybe you won't be. It's your car and you can do it several times if you want. Knock yourself out.
Thank you everyone for the nice and not so nice comments..... I appreciate all your advice..... I will look at some new metal...... Let me start shopping around....... my budget is not that big..... any ideas on who’s pans are better..... or are they all the same cheap metal...?? From my pictures am I better off with the whole pan or four sections or left and right....???
I don't think anybody was trying to be not so nice but my floors weren't as bad as yours and i replaced them As said before in a uni-body everything structural so gluing in floor panels is not an option I used por 15 on my back floors they had no holes thru them so I treated them with rust converter and then used por-15 over that These cars rust from the inside out in general
This may get you in a decent direction, much cheaper than getting them off ebay, I've bought alot through rock auto because of the price difference for the exact same part from somewhere else. The price for the long panel is for each side and from the looks of your photo you will probably need them both. The other pic is for your driverside toe board which is in bad shape, the passenger side looks pretty good from what i can tell. My floor pan looked as bad as yours and i went with a whole one piece pan which ran around 350. I did however hire a resto shop to put that in for me along with alot of other things. I dont see that you have to go that route but if you do make sure you take it somewhere where they know what they're doing because it'll need to be braced up to prevent the body from twisting. Good luck
POR 15 says there kit will fix it.....? Any one use this stuff.....??
Think of POR15 as hard paint. Good to paint over bad looking rusty metal. By the way, it will break down if exposed to UV light. You need to top coat it in order to save it from breaking down in the sun.
You should tear down the areas you want to do the patch work on. This involves cutting out the rusty metal. Once you have all the bad stuff removed then evaluate what panel/patch, 1/4, 1/2, full panel. If your going to replace a lot of sheet metal on your floor then your better of getting the entire floor pan. They have a good body panel that extends from the front toe panel to the rear floor pan. This will save you a lot of time and ensure your body is straight. Most of the welds are done for you.
If you don't have many tools and plan to learn welding and do you own car then budget for $$ for good tools. The best way to save money is to save time. Buying no tools and cheap body panels are a receipt for disaster. If your not willing to invest in tools then I suggest you get someone to weld them in for you.
Ok everyone.... I’m shopping for a floor pan.... I found one... but it’s an hour away and I don’t have a truck..... but the price is great....... ( it’s a new pan that was not used and now they trying to sell it )......my be less headache 🤕 to just Order one at full price and have it delivered to my house...... any way as far as replacing it.... can it be done with out a rotisserie......?? Also my work area is small ( I’m in one side of a two car residential garage ) As far as welding I’m looking at some good used welders vs a new welder......? I’m guessing that flux core is not the way to go.... that I need a gas welder......( hopefully they are available for 110..... ) sorry for all the questions.... just doing all my homework as I’m going to be doing all of this by myself...... so I want to be prepared........ also should I sand blast the body.....? I have a small blaster that works with my pressure washer...... and a smaller blaster that works dry...... Thank you in advance
Thank you everyone for the nice and not so nice comments..... I appreciate all your advice..... I will look at some new metal...... Let me start shopping around....... my budget is not that big..... any ideas on who’s pans are better..... or are they all the same cheap metal...?? From my pictures am I better off with the whole pan or four sections or left and right....???
I replaced both floor pans, left & right of the driveshaft hump, if I were to do it again I'd replace the whole floor pan.
Concerning a rotisserie, you shouldn't need one to patch those floors, provided the floor under your seat pan is sound. If that is the case, you only need to replace the 2'x2' footwell sections in front of and behind the seat braces, which both maintains unibody rigidity and saves you from having to remove your subframe. Cut out one quadrant at a time, lay the old section in the new pan, and cut that perimeter with an extra 1/2" all around. You can weld the patch in as-is if you want to use lap joints, but I butt-welded my floors. To get the exact size, I laid the oversized patch in the floor and plunged my cutoff wheel into both the old floor and the patch panel at the same time. This left me with a cutoff wheel's width gap for butt welding, which was wider than ideal, but it still worked fine.
You should be able to get a used 110V hobby welder for not too much money. I think I paid $150 for a Hobart Handler on craigslist and spent another $150 on gear, wire, and gas. Once you have a welder, a whole new world of repair and fabrication is opened to you.
It's worth noting that those half-floor pans have the flange for the pinch weld on the wrong side. It's not a problem when you are cutting patches, but if you decide to do the entire half floor at once all the way to your rockers, it will need correcting.
Update I now have a rotisserie and have the bird dismantled so I can get the body mounted on the rotisserie...... I’m looking for a complete floor pan...... and will cut what I need from it........ then I can also prep the whole floor and prime and paint it........
I replaced both floor pans, left & right of the driveshaft hump, if I were to do it again I'd replace the whole floor pan. [/quote] I'd buy a better rust free car or one that all the work was done
I replaced both floor pans, left & right of the driveshaft hump, if I were to do it again I'd replace the whole floor pan.
I'd buy a better rust free car or one that all the work was done [/quote]
I would have to agree with you Chief. Spend the big bucks at the beginning and get the best body you can your hands on. There was a mint 67 400 Vert /w Tyrol blue and white interior loaded and done for $50k. Wish I bought it!
You can take your frame off now that you have the rotisserie. You love that tool. Makes it much easier doing the welding and everything for that matter.
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