First Generation Firebird

69 Convertible in Pink

Posted By: Sinbad5024

69 Convertible in Pink - 05/09/16 11:06 PM

Hello Everyone,
I am new to the group and wasn't sure where to pose this question, so I thought this might be the best place. I just purchased the 69 convertible and have been doing as much research as I can on this car. It is need of a lot of help but does run, drive, stop, etc., but I got a pretty good deal on it. The paint code on the body tag shows SPECIAL -A.

I am unable to find anything on this paint code anywhere. Looking at the car I can see areas where there is pink overspray (i.e. inner door frame, trunk hinge brackets, etc.). I have been searching for answers but have not been able to come up with anything. I know Mary Kay did pink cars but have not found anything other than Cadillacs. I have also heard Nancy Sinatra was fond of pink Firebirds. Fleer gum was also supposedly giving away pink Firebirds as a grand prize. The last thing that I found was the Playboy pink cars, but no information on Firebirds there either.

Any information that I can get would be greatly appreciated. I was told that the car was in Alaska and then Florida, which would explain a lot of the rust, but don't have any other information that that.
Posted By: Sleddog

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/10/16 04:19 PM

Welcome to the site! Congratulations on your purchase- should be a great car when your done.

The Special color could have been one of several, but if you are seeing pink, it was probably the pink mist color that was used then. Nancy Sinatra's car was a 68, and there was someone selling a 68 convertible a couple of years back that he said was her car, but there was never any proof.

I would start by ordering the PHS (Pontiac Historical Society) documents for the car. Google the web site, and it will tell you how. They will tell you all about the origin of the car, and what it was supposed to have out of the factory.

As far as special colors, if you use the search function on this site, you can look up a huge amount of info that has been posted through the years on here. Put in pink mist, or special colors or whatever else you want to look up.

Got any pictures of your car to post?
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/10/16 06:22 PM

Thank you for the information. I have been searching everywhere to find anything on a 69, but to no avail. I have found information on 67s and 68s, but no 69s in pink. I have taken your advice Sleddog and have ordered the PHS report.

All of the "special" paint colors that are listed for 69s, 4 of them, not one site anywhere mentions pink mist as an option. The car is currently a burgundy color and has a white top. I have a picture on my phone but have not transferred it to my computer yet. i will post a pic when I get the chance.

I am looking forward to the build on this car as it is my first convertible. I have had many F bodies over the years so they are not new to me. This one will be the biggest project I have done so far. I may need to contact Bill Speer and start buying a lot of parts!!!

Thank you for the response, Sleddog. I will keep everyone updated on my progress during my research as to what this car really is, especially if it is pink mist.
Posted By: Sleddog

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/10/16 09:57 PM

I am curious as to what the original color was, or if it might have been a one off special order for a company or something. Is there any inconspicuous area you could sand and see what is under the pink if anything?

I am not a 69 bird expert, but I don't think that was an available color for 69, only 67 and 68.

What motor do you have? Is it an auto or manual trans? Pwr top or manual? What color is the interior?

Bill and others probably have most of the parts you need, you can also inquire on Performance Years as well for parts.

Keep us posted, and Pics are welcome!
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/11/16 02:07 AM

So here are a few pics

350 2bbl, auto, PW, P Top, P Antenna. Nothing real fancy.

Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/11/16 02:08 AM

Another
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/11/16 02:11 AM

And here is the pink that I was talking about. The closer I look, I begin to see it in may places. Where the weatherstips around the doors and windshield are, etc. I put the PHS request in the mail today. I am very curious about the original color. Again, all of the research I have done so far, nobody has ever heard of pink being available for 69. At this point, I would place a large bet that pink is the original color.

Posted By: Cal H

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/11/16 04:21 AM

This is pretty interesting. Be sure to post back when the PHS docs arrive!
Cal
Posted By: Sleddog

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/11/16 01:54 PM

Thanks for the pics, that is definitely a pink... it looks like pink mist from the pictures...

As Cal said- keep us posted!
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/11/16 04:14 PM

I will keep everyone up to date when the report shows up. It sure is pink. In your guy's non professional opinion, what might this vehicle be worth right now, in this condition?
Posted By: Sleddog

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/11/16 05:07 PM

I can only speak for myself, I would need more pics.
Posted By: Jimc2002

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/11/16 06:54 PM

Have you checked the trunk area, particularly around the torsion rods?
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/11/16 11:08 PM

Originally Posted By Jimc2002
Have you checked the trunk area, particularly around the torsion rods?


If you are referring to the paint color in that area, it too is pink. Under some of the old weatherstrip that is shrinking around the windshield frame, etc.
Posted By: Jimc2002

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/11/16 11:50 PM

I was more thinking of the area of the trunk hinges and their torsion springs inside and underneath the front of the trunk. Mine seemed to get factory paint and overspray there. But, under the weatherstrip does help confirm pink at some time. That PHS will be interesting. I have never seen or heard of a '69 that color so you may have a unique one.
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/20/16 04:08 PM

Update: Received the PHS report last night. In a hand written note on the front page, it states "Special Paint" color unknown. The color option on the report for exterior shows 11 and the interior shows 7 (parchment). It was sold by a dealer in Fort Meyers, FL. I did not have time last night to post pics and I will not have tonight to do so, but I will post up a pic of the report tomorrow when I get the chance.
So I am no farther ahead or behind than where I was before. But I am still sure the original color is Pink Mist.
Posted By: Jimc2002

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/20/16 04:45 PM

It is difficult to remove but you might check under the bottom of the rear seat for the build sheet. They often stuffed them up in the springs and padding as they rolled down the line. Color codes are on those too. Although, if there, it too, may show nothing more than the special color code.

Bottom line, you have proven a special color which is rare. Add that to the pink overspray and it is pretty clear it was originally pink.
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/20/16 05:26 PM

Thank you for the information. I will check there. The back seat is loose in there. Maybe I can dig around and find it. It might be destroyed as the rust has taken over so much of this neglected vehicle, Even the seat frames are rusted to the point of no return. I will still probably go with Pink Mist when it gets redone and takes pictures of everything that is pink for documentation purposes.
Posted By: Jimc2002

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/20/16 05:45 PM

I get the feeling that there is a really good story behind that car's origin. Hope its history gets discovered. What was the dealer's name? Maybe there is an old-timer still living who worked there and can recall delivering it.

I suspect your Co in location is Colorado. What is CR?
Posted By: Gus68

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/20/16 05:55 PM

Originally Posted By Sinbad5024
Update: Received the PHS report last night. In a hand written note on the front page, it states "Special Paint" color unknown. The color option on the report for exterior shows 11 and the interior shows 7 (parchment). It was sold by a dealer in Fort Meyers, FL. I did not have time last night to post pics and I will not have tonight to do so, but I will post up a pic of the report tomorrow when I get the chance.
So I am no farther ahead or behind than where I was before. But I am still sure the original color is Pink Mist.


Another place to look for the original paint is behind the rear axle rubber "stopper". I can't remember what the part is called but if you take off a rear tire, look for a big rubber bumper that will stop the rear axle from hitting the rear frame rail. Three bolts and it's off. This area of the car is painted the original top coat color. The bumper is rarely removed so your pink color should be there in excellent condition. I have confirmed this on my 68 coupe and 68 vert. Have a look at the assembly line pic for a 69.

Attached picture 69 Assembly Line Photo RedBlack.JPG
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/20/16 06:15 PM

Originally Posted By Jimc2002
I get the feeling that there is a really good story behind that car's origin. Hope its history gets discovered. What was the dealer's name? Maybe there is an old-timer still living who worked there and can recall delivering it.

I suspect your Co in location is Colorado. What is CR?


I hope so too. I forget the name of the dealer, I think Al something. I have some documents in the car with a couple of women's names on it. I may see if i can track them down without being the "creepy old guy" or too "stalkerish"!!!

Yes Colorado, in Castle Rock.
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/20/16 06:18 PM

Originally Posted By Gus68
Originally Posted By Sinbad5024
Update: Received the PHS report last night. In a hand written note on the front page, it states "Special Paint" color unknown. The color option on the report for exterior shows 11 and the interior shows 7 (parchment). It was sold by a dealer in Fort Meyers, FL. I did not have time last night to post pics and I will not have tonight to do so, but I will post up a pic of the report tomorrow when I get the chance.
So I am no farther ahead or behind than where I was before. But I am still sure the original color is Pink Mist.


Another place to look for the original paint is behind the rear axle rubber "stopper". I can't remember what the part is called but if you take off a rear tire, look for a big rubber bumper that will stop the rear axle from hitting the rear frame rail. Three bolts and it's off. This area of the car is painted the original top coat color. The bumper is rarely removed so your pink color should be there in excellent condition. I have confirmed this on my 68 coupe and 68 vert. Have a look at the assembly line pic for a 69.


I will do that. Thank you for that information.

One of the guys that I work with gave me some parts left over from his 68 Firebird that he sold. I received 5 Rally wheels, a center console, a side view mirror and both visors. So I am in the getting parts stage. Not sure my garage can hold anymore stuff.
Posted By: Gus68

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/20/16 06:22 PM

Originally Posted By Sinbad5024
Originally Posted By Gus68
Originally Posted By Sinbad5024
Update: Received the PHS report last night. In a hand written note on the front page, it states "Special Paint" color unknown. The color option on the report for exterior shows 11 and the interior shows 7 (parchment). It was sold by a dealer in Fort Meyers, FL. I did not have time last night to post pics and I will not have tonight to do so, but I will post up a pic of the report tomorrow when I get the chance.
So I am no farther ahead or behind than where I was before. But I am still sure the original color is Pink Mist.


Another place to look for the original paint is behind the rear axle rubber "stopper". I can't remember what the part is called but if you take off a rear tire, look for a big rubber bumper that will stop the rear axle from hitting the rear frame rail. Three bolts and it's off. This area of the car is painted the original top coat color. The bumper is rarely removed so your pink color should be there in excellent condition. I have confirmed this on my 68 coupe and 68 vert. Have a look at the assembly line pic for a 69.


I will do that. Thank you for that information.

One of the guys that I work with gave me some parts left over from his 68 Firebird that he sold. I received 5 Rally wheels, a center console, a side view mirror and both visors. So I am in the getting parts stage. Not sure my garage can hold anymore stuff.


I got some spare 69 OEM used parts you might need so let me know if you needing any.
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/20/16 06:30 PM

Originally Posted By Gus68
Originally Posted By Sinbad5024
Originally Posted By Gus68
Originally Posted By Sinbad5024
Update: Received the PHS report last night. In a hand written note on the front page, it states "Special Paint" color unknown. The color option on the report for exterior shows 11 and the interior shows 7 (parchment). It was sold by a dealer in Fort Meyers, FL. I did not have time last night to post pics and I will not have tonight to do so, but I will post up a pic of the report tomorrow when I get the chance.
So I am no farther ahead or behind than where I was before. But I am still sure the original color is Pink Mist.


Another place to look for the original paint is behind the rear axle rubber "stopper". I can't remember what the part is called but if you take off a rear tire, look for a big rubber bumper that will stop the rear axle from hitting the rear frame rail. Three bolts and it's off. This area of the car is painted the original top coat color. The bumper is rarely removed so your pink color should be there in excellent condition. I have confirmed this on my 68 coupe and 68 vert. Have a look at the assembly line pic for a 69.


I will do that. Thank you for that information.

One of the guys that I work with gave me some parts left over from his 68 Firebird that he sold. I received 5 Rally wheels, a center console, a side view mirror and both visors. So I am in the getting parts stage. Not sure my garage can hold anymore stuff.


I got some spare 69 OEM used parts you might need so let me know if you needing any.


If you have everything except what I listed above, I probably need it!!!!
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/21/16 05:48 PM

Here is the PHS report.

Posted By: Cal H

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/22/16 02:30 PM

Well, the mystery deepens! A quick search of Yahoo for Al Gallman Pontiac turns up some useful (maybe) info.
Here is an unusual auction on ebay, appears to be some type of dealership trinkets or such:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/33-pieces-Chief-Pontiac-Indian-Al-Gallman-Gallmanville-Fla-/351702142568
Might be worth making a contact with this seller and find out what it is and what else they may know.

Some business info here:
http://www.bizapedia.com/fl/AL-GALLMAN-PONTIAC-INC.html
The registered agent is likely an attorney in Fort Myers, he might know of someone to contact from a historical basis

You might also post in the Fort Myers Craigslist looking for information - looking for people who worked at the dealership.
Cal
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/22/16 07:32 PM

I have done some research on the previous owner's. I have some documents from Ft Myers, FL for registration in 1995. So a quick Google search on the names shows me that they have passed. I do have another receipt from a muffler shop with what I think is a son of the owners listed on the previous documents. I also have a phone number. After another search, I think that I have found him and may make a phone call to see if he is the son and if he has any other information on the car.
Posted By: Sleddog

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/23/16 02:26 PM

Originally Posted By Cal H
Well, the mystery deepens! A quick search of Yahoo for Al Gallman Pontiac turns up some useful (maybe) info.
Here is an unusual auction on ebay, appears to be some type of dealership trinkets or such:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/33-pieces-Chief-Pontiac-Indian-Al-Gallman-Gallmanville-Fla-/351702142568
Might be worth making a contact with this seller and find out what it is and what else they may know.

Some business info here:
http://www.bizapedia.com/fl/AL-GALLMAN-PONTIAC-INC.html
The registered agent is likely an attorney in Fort Myers, he might know of someone to contact from a historical basis

You might also post in the Fort Myers Craigslist looking for information - looking for people who worked at the dealership.
Cal


Cal,
Nice job! Very cool of you to post that. Sinbad, you should snap those up. Dealer trinkets are usually rare to find, and that would be cool to have with your car.

I would think it is pink, keep us posted on what you find out..
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 05/23/16 04:41 PM

Sleddog, I have those in my watch list until the seller gets back on the 24th. I will then purchase them. I tried the buy now, but to no avail. This dealership has been gone for quite some time. Would be neat to have them with the car.
Posted By: pinkbird

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 08/07/16 07:47 PM

Sinbad, My guess is that you may have gotten the PHS docs back with no final answer as to what color your car was. I had a PHS doc search done on my '68 and they came back unable to identify the special color. In my case it is Pink Mist but I have other records to prove it. Yep that door does look familiar but I don't think Pink Mist was a color that year unless it may have been a car built in '68 when Pink was an option and could still be ordered. PHS docs should indicate a build date so it would be interesting to know if Pontiac carried over the color through the end of the year. (Bet they had a lot of that paint left over). My special order on the sales slip indicates: special order -11-Pink Mist
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 09/25/16 11:50 PM

Originally Posted By pinkbird
Sinbad, My guess is that you may have gotten the PHS docs back with no final answer as to what color your car was. I had a PHS doc search done on my '68 and they came back unable to identify the special color. In my case it is Pink Mist but I have other records to prove it. Yep that door does look familiar but I don't think Pink Mist was a color that year unless it may have been a car built in '68 when Pink was an option and could still be ordered. PHS docs should indicate a build date so it would be interesting to know if Pontiac carried over the color through the end of the year. (Bet they had a lot of that paint left over). My special order on the sales slip indicates: special order -11-Pink Mist


Sorry it has taken so long to respond. I have another large project I have been working on for the last few months. As of now, I still have no definitive answer to the mystery that is the color. The PHS doc doesn't show anything as far as a color code. Nobody has heard of a Pink Mist 69, but this car was pink. I have sent my PHS doc off to a few Firebird people and they have returned with an answer that is just a puzzled as everyone else.
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 09/29/16 06:17 PM

Here is my latest reply...

"Hello Shane,

That's a very interesting Firebird you have. It's not what I usually see, which is the "extra cost" type of special paint that is fairly common on 1969 Firebirds. When most people see PAINT-SPECL on their invoice, they assume they have a special paint car, but this simply means "extra cost" color, like Carousel Red, which was a $12.64 option.

Your car, on the other hand, is a true special paint car, identified as SOLID SPECL. This is a color that was not stocked in the Firebird plant (Lordstown in your case), so the plant had to have the color mixed or shipped in. The assembly line used to cringe when they had a special paint car, because this meant that their paint guns had to be flushed and filled for a one-time paint job, then flushed and cleaned again to return to regular paint production line colors.

Your invoice appears to have a billing error, which is rare, but not unique. It appears the SOLID SPECL was billed twice. The first line at $100.05 is the correct one. That was price for special paint on a convertible or a vinyl top car. The second time SOLID SPECL shows (highlighted) is the error. That would have been the price for special paint if they had to paint the roof too, such as a hardtop (without a vinyl top). It appears they double billed it, and they corrected the invoice on 04/09/69. This was to credit the dealer (Al Gallman Pontiac) for the billing error.

Pontiac used paint code "1" when special paint was used. The box on your invoice that shows "11" is actually a "1" followed by a "1". The second "1" is the code for a white convertible top.

The handwritten part on your invoice appears to be a paint code reference of GM?2?7685 (the question marks are the unknowns, I cannot make out the numbers). The last part of that line appears to be shorthand for "pricing error".

There's no way of knowing what color was used on your car without a build sheet, unless you can make out the handwritten note part more clearly and it proved to be a GM paint reference. However, pink is a definite possibility based on what you've uncovered so far. The build sheet would tell us the full story.

Hope that helps,

Mike"

With the history of this vehicle, all of the rust/moisture on and in this car, the build sheet has probably deteriorated many years ago. So, still in the same place.
Posted By: Sleddog

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 09/29/16 08:37 PM

Curious as to what it was from the factory! Anyway to put those hazy numbers under a magnifying glass or something? Can you take the digits you can make out and compare them to a 69 Pontiac paint chart and see if you can match those ones? That might give you the code in complete.
Posted By: Hank350

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 09/30/16 01:53 AM

[quote=Sinbad5024]Here is my latest reply...

"Hello Shane,

That's a very interesting Firebird you have. It's not what I usually see, which is the "extra cost" type of special paint that is fairly common on 1969 Firebirds. When most people see PAINT-SPECL on their invoice, they assume they have a special paint car, but this simply means "extra cost" color, like Carousel Red, which was a $12.64 option.

Carousel Red was a "special order color" at extra cost as stated but it was a color that was listed on the order sheet (along with Goldenrod Yellow). It does show up on the trim tag as code# 72. My '69 Carousel Red Firebird (Lordstown build) Shows the paint code #72 on the trim tag and on the PHS docs.
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 10/05/16 08:33 PM

Originally Posted By Sleddog
Curious as to what it was from the factory! Anyway to put those hazy numbers under a magnifying glass or something? Can you take the digits you can make out and compare them to a 69 Pontiac paint chart and see if you can match those ones? That might give you the code in complete.


I have looked at the paint codes and compared them to the numbers on the sheet. I tried different numbers because they are so hard to make out. I came up with nothing close. This will continue to be a mystery, it may never be solved. A build sheet would be nice, but I doubt that will ever happen.
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 11/20/18 12:07 AM

UPDATE!!!!! I have proof that my 69 Firebird Convertible is Pink from the factory. I had some paperwork in the glove box from the previous owner and in the small group was a document for application for title for the state of Florida. The owner moved from AK and was registering back in FL and listed on the application it shows COLOR PNK. The document is also notarized. Finally found what I was looking for and now I have a lot of other questions that come up. This is the only known 69 Firebird Convertible in Pink Mist and is now documented, that I have heard of, do I restore it (full restoration as it was an AK/FL car, massive rust), sell it as is or ???? Also, what is the value of a car like this, now unrestored and restored? If I have a restoration done, who would be someone to trust to do it right? I have so many questions and just looking for any help on direction to answer my questions on value for both situations. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Posted By: Cal H

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 11/28/18 10:57 PM

Congrats on the sleuthing. You might actually have a "1 of 1" on your hands.
I will follow this thread to see what others think of value & restoration. From what I have seen around me at car shows, you would not be money ahead to have the car restored if you farm out the whole process. A quality paint job without body work runs in the thousands now. I couldn't even guess on the body work, it is difficult to find shops to even take on old cars any more - to many quick jobs for insurance to take on "projects". The engine & transmission is easy enough to have done, but finding someone to do the electrical and other mechanical could be a job.
Bottom line, if you have the restore done - you had better have deep pockets and a lot of patience!
The old project management triangle holds true for everything and is multiplied when it comes to old cars...
Cal

Attached picture Project-Management-Triangle.png
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 12/01/18 03:22 PM

Thanks for the response Cal, I appreciate it. I feel that I am honestly looking at $40k for a restoration. I can do the mechanical work, drivetrain, suspension and wiring etc, just not the body work. It will need full floors and trunkpan, so it will be a full restoration. With me doing some of the work, I still feel my guess would be within range, higher if I don't do any of it, obviously. I am leaning toward selling it, but I'm not sure asking price. I was thinking $8k - $10K because of how rare it is, but the hard part is trying to put a value on a car like this, as it might just be a 1 of 1. If I am too high on the price, I would like to hear what people are thinking.Thank you.
Posted By: Cal H

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 12/03/18 03:09 AM

Dog gone Shane, I was hoping you might get some response over the weekend. I really have not had my finger on the pulse to know what the value "as-is" might be. Not even a clue as to what final value of a "1 of 1" would be either.
Cal
Posted By: Sinbad5024

Re: 69 Convertible in Pink - 12/05/18 11:27 PM

Cal, I was hoping too. I think I will post it up on Ebay and start at $9k or make offer. It will need full floors/trunk pan etc with the full restore so I'm just really guessing.
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