First Generation Firebird
Posted By: hslager69 vinyl roof - 03/14/12 05:09 AM
My car got repainted 2 years ago,Last summer i noticed a couple small bubbles on the passenger side rear quarter . I brought it back to the body shop that did the work ( he didn't put quarters on it,they where installed already by previous owner) and he will split the cost with me to repair.Too repair it properly he will need to strip both rear quarters and roof ,i have a little paint left over which he thinks will be enough .Anywho i always liked the look of a vinyl roof and that would give him the opportunity to just repair the one quarter. what do you guys think,Vinyl or not,I'm kinda concerned of the paint not matching,which it should if there is enough.
Posted By: Firebob Re: vinyl roof - 03/14/12 06:09 AM
My car was an original vinal top car but after the second one I paid to have professionally put on I decided enough was enough. Now I like to bang my head against the wall as much as the next guy(obviously why I own a Pontiac) but they are just too problematic. I very much like the way a vinal top looks too but red was the most expensive color paint they make and I would rather not paint match every two years.
Posted By: StealthBird Re: vinyl roof - 03/14/12 07:31 AM
It depends on whether you like it or not. Go with how YOU feel, not how others feel. smile

There are some makes and models I actually prefer WITH a vinyl top, some I can take or leave, and some I would say NEVER.

In the NEVER category :

1) 1970-1981 F-body
2) Anything that had bold stripes from the factory looks terrible with a vinyl top (1969 Trans Am, 1970-1972 Olds W-30, 1970-1972 Chevelle SS)
3) The 1969 Camaro, because the vinyl top doesn't touch the drop molding

In the "Ok" category :

1) 1967-1969 Firebird
2) 1964-1972 GTO

In the "I prefer a vinyl top" category :

1) 1965-1972 Buick GS, especially the 1970
2) 1966-1967 GTO

I still have the factory original black top on my 1969 Firebird (black) on Carousel Red. I can take it or leave it, but I'm glad it's still the factory one.
Posted By: Gus68 Re: vinyl roof - 03/14/12 08:28 AM
Originally Posted By hslager69
My car got repainted 2 years ago,Last summer i noticed a couple small bubbles on the passenger side rear quarter . I brought it back to the body shop that did the work ( he didn't put quarters on it,they where installed already by previous owner) and he will split the cost with me to repair.Too repair it properly he will need to strip both rear quarters and roof ,i have a little paint left over which he thinks will be enough .Anywho i always liked the look of a vinyl roof and that would give him the opportunity to just repair the one quarter. what do you guys think,Vinyl or not,I'm kinda concerned of the paint not matching,which it should if there is enough.


They can always make another gal of paint the same as before. The problem is your paint color fades in the sun light and red fades the quickest. I think Vinyl in the right color would look great.
Posted By: hslager69 Re: vinyl roof - 03/14/12 03:21 PM
Don't know yet,If i go that route the top would be black.The body shop should have done a better job in prepping the old weld seam in the first place.There are other spots on the car where he could have done a better job,after 30+ years as an auto body guy doing classics and daily drivers you would think he would spend more time on the details.
Posted By: 68tpls400 Re: vinyl roof - 03/14/12 03:22 PM
I vote vinly too, especially if it was original. Do you need the chrome trim for it?
Posted By: hslager69 Re: vinyl roof - 03/14/12 03:24 PM
Originally Posted By 68tpls400
I vote vinly too, especially if it was original. Do you need the chrome trim for it?

It was not original on my car,and yes if i go that route i will need the trim.
Posted By: hslager69 Re: vinyl roof - 03/14/12 03:50 PM
Apparently 69 vinyl trim is hard to find !.I see it's repoded for 67-68 and the 69 camaro vinyl trim is different.anyone know if 69 firebird vinyl trim is reproduced ?
Posted By: Bjorn Sefeldt Re: vinyl roof - 03/14/12 03:51 PM
having owned two Cutlasses with Landau type vinyl roofs, I would not recommend it....I had probems with the leaking, getting moisture under and rusting....maybe the 'HALF roof' is harder to seal then a full roog , dont know...but the moisture under the vinyl was my experience
Posted By: hokie1984 Re: vinyl roof - 03/14/12 04:04 PM
Just thought of something strange, is there any new car available with a vinyl top. I can't think of one. One would think with all the retro cars out there, someone would try it.
Posted By: Firebob Re: vinyl roof - 03/14/12 07:40 PM
I've got the set of trim I took off my car. If you decide to go that way and can't find it let me know.
Posted By: wovenweb Re: vinyl roof - 03/14/12 07:42 PM
In the "I prefer a vinyl top" category :

1) 1967-68 F-body cars

I think they look better with them than without them.
Posted By: 68tpls400 Re: vinyl roof - 03/14/12 07:46 PM
Originally Posted By wovenweb
In the "I prefer a vinyl top" category :

1) 1967-68 F-body cars

I think they look better with them than without them.


x2 here. (unless it's a rag top, then 'no' top is preferred) grin
Posted By: StealthBird Re: vinyl roof - 03/14/12 09:35 PM
There have been many occasions, on cruise nights, when I have someone in the under-21 crowd ask if they can touch my vinyl top. I always found that amusing. They just don't understand the concept of a vinyl top. I tell them it's basically replicating the convertible look. I just think it's funny how young people, who have grown up in the cookie-cutter age of lookalike jellybean cars, marvel at the old classics.

They do seem to understand that style and beauty came before aerodynamics and safety back in the 60's, and I think that's why classic cars are always respected by young people.
Posted By: hslager69 Re: vinyl roof - 03/14/12 10:52 PM
there is two types of vinyl tops out there,one is listed like the original and the other has padding of some sort. is there a advantage to having padding?.I would lean towards the original. I also see you can get it precut would that be better?


http://www.early-birds.ca/partgroup-827_853_862-164831.html
Posted By: hslager69 Re: vinyl roof - 03/14/12 10:54 PM
Originally Posted By Firebob
My car was an original vinal top car but after the second one I paid to have professionally put on I decided enough was enough. Now I like to bang my head against the wall as much as the next guy(obviously why I own a Pontiac) but they are just too problematic. I very much like the way a vinal top looks too but red was the most expensive color paint they make and I would rather not paint match every two years.


What problems did you encounter? pm sent
Posted By: Firebob Re: vinyl roof - 03/15/12 03:05 AM
They always seem to get bubbles on the lower part of the sail panel and below the rear window. I don't know if it's just a matter of a poor/incomplete glue job or just bad installation but it never seemed to last vey long before it would start to show and you know if you leave it it's just going to get worse. I've seen guys take off the top and leave the trim and it just looks stupid(to me).
Posted By: StealthBird Re: vinyl roof - 03/15/12 04:17 AM
Could that have been a factory two-tone paint scheme you were seeing, or did they remove the vinyl top, leave top and bottom the same color, and reinstall the chrome trim?
Posted By: Earlybird Re: vinyl roof - 03/15/12 05:46 AM
When I bought my bird in 2000 it had a vinyl top. I pulled it off and had the car painted. We then installed a new vinyl top ourselves. The top we put on was on the car for ten years until it was hit and parted out 2 years ago. Just to see how well it held up, when I pulled the vinyl top trim parts to sell them to someone on here, I pulled the vinyl back quite far and found ZERO and I mean ZERO issues under the vinyl.

IMO it all depends on how the top is installed, how it's trimmed, the brand of contact cement and how much of it is used and if the person using actually knows how to use it!!!!!!

We also not too long added a vinyl top to our 67 LeMans. Again, IF done correctly and all the precautions are taken I do not see where adding a vinyl top will cause ANY problems at all. Now, in saying this, yes, there is some addition care that needs to be taken, ie: when you wash the car, use an air chuck or a leaf blower to blow any water out from behind the moldings. I do this EVERY time our cars get wet anyway as it takes seconds to do but it will prevent rust issues. I do this behind all the markers on the entire car, reveal moldings, rocker panel moldings etc.

And as I mentioned above, using brand name (3M) contact cement is KEY. A lot of shops will use the cheapest crap they can get in bulk that they can spray on, quick/fast and easy. WRONG! I used 4 quart cans on the LeMans and hand brushed it on to BOTH surfaces (the back of the vinyl and on the roof). Is this a pain in the a$$ and hard to do compared to dumping it into a spay gun, YES it sure is. BUT, it makes a HUGE difference in saturation and coverage. How many shops around do you think are going to hand apply and use 3M brand contact cement? None, would be my guess. Hence the reason I tackled the project twice myself!

This is not an easy job. And if you have never worked with contact cement, do your homework! I have written a several page article on this very topic. I believe it's posted somewhere on this site. If not, I believe I have it as a Word document if anyone is interested...
Posted By: Earlybird Re: vinyl roof - 03/15/12 05:52 AM
The one good thing about attempting to install the vinyl top yourself is this, the top is about $150, the cement is about $40. So for around $200 and a good 8-10 hour day of work, you can save yourself $400-???? in labor and most likely end up with a better job IMO. You just have to do LOTS of prep work and be patient when doing this job and have a good helper who is willing and able to do exactly what you tell him/her (good luck with this one). LOL When working with contact cement not a good time for a know it all/smart a$$ helper/assistant!!!
Posted By: Earlybird Re: vinyl roof - 03/15/12 03:58 PM
Another thing I was thinking about this morning. It's funny how people who have had negative experiences with vinyl tops are often quick to assume that it was the vinyl top that cause the "problem" in the event one does develop after installing one. When in fact it can always be traced back to the installation OR simple fact that there was a problem with the paint work/body work and or prep on the roof area prior to the vinyl top install to begin with.

What made me think of this is the simple fact that if a body guy and or paint shop knows ahead of time that you are going to install a vinyl top, maybe they are not taking the time to finish the roof and prepare it properly "because it's going to be covered up anyway" type of thing. For example, when I had my bird painted I told the guy I wasn't sure if I was going to put a vinyl top back on the car (this was a little white lie on my part because I had already bought a brand new one as well as the cement to install it). However, I wanted to the roof to be painted and prepped etc. just as nicely as the rest of the car. Not too mention I wanted all the holes welded close, ground down and everything flawless so I would be "starting over" so to speak and I knew everything was solid and I had no leaks or potential rust issues etc.

So the bottom line IMO for what it's worth is I believe the trick to making sure a vinyl top lasts and doesn't cause and or create issue down the road is to make 100% sure there isn't ANY AT ALL before you install a top to begin with! Then be sure to install the top 100% accurately and maintain it 100% accurately after it is and it will last and it will not cause any issues and or problems...
Posted By: hslager69 Re: vinyl roof - 03/15/12 07:26 PM
[quote=
I have written a several page article on this very topic. I believe it's posted somewhere on this site. If not, I believe I have it as a Word document if anyone is interested... [/quote]
If you got that article Joe could you post it,Please.
Posted By: StealthBird Re: vinyl roof - 03/15/12 07:45 PM
Since I still have the original top on my Bird, can anyone describe what's underneath? I've never taken a vinyl top off before, and I'm not doing mine, I'm just curious!

I've heard people say that underneath a factory top, it's painted body color, but the factory didn't take much time smoothing out imperfections, or wet sanding the roof paint, because they knew the car was tagged for a vinyl top.

Also, if you were to remove a factory vinyl top, is it a matter of starting on a corner, and pulling, or is there some type of solvent that's required? Does the factory glue destroy the original paint under there?
Posted By: hslager69 Re: vinyl roof - 03/15/12 07:45 PM
Hey Joe where did you get your top from? Plus does the drip rail moulding clip over the vinyl to hold it down? One more question what do the studs look like that the trim connects too?
Posted By: Firebob Re: vinyl roof - 03/15/12 08:10 PM
Stealth,
I pulled my factory original top(I am assuming it was. I haven't owned it since new) because it was beginning to go the bad way. This was probably 12 years after production. I'm sure it had sat outside the whole time. The car was painted the same color underneath. Some of the leaded seams were not finished off to the point where you could have left it if you weren't going to cover it again.
Posted By: hslager69 Re: vinyl roof - 03/15/12 10:16 PM
Also does anyone have a template on the location for vinyl trim for a 69?
Posted By: Firebob Re: vinyl roof - 03/16/12 02:03 AM
When you lay the trim on the car it's going to be pretty obvious where it goes. The front of the trim meets the bottom of the drip rail molding behind the quarter window. I can't remember what the situation is inside the drip rails.
Posted By: hslager69 Re: vinyl roof - 03/16/12 02:35 AM
Thanks,never seen it done before,just trying to be informed.Car goes to body shop in two weeks for repair.Anyone got pics of the clips? Are they the same as the window trim studs?
Posted By: 68tpls400 Re: vinyl roof - 03/16/12 03:21 AM
The clips are plastic, kind of fish shaped. They slide over a headed stud. The rear corners of the trim have two pins that go through holes in the tops of the rear quarters below the rear window. Speed nuts go onto these pins. Two piece chrome, joined in the center of the rear window. One piece slips inside the other. Both sides end just short of the drip trim. You can see maybe 1/4" of non-covered vinyl top right there between the drip and the rear chrome. If I ever make it near my coupe soon, I could take measurements. The plastic clips could be screwed down if the studs are missing. I have an xtra entire set of trim, clips, speed nuts, etc. if anyone is interested...
Posted By: Earlybird Re: vinyl roof - 03/16/12 04:20 AM
When you remove a vinyl top from a factory car the top (from what I have seen first hand) IS painted the factory color. To remove the top, simple, grab it somewhere and pull! It will usually come off in one piece unless it is really toast! Believe it or not even ones that pretty rough still manage to stay together and come off in one piece generally speaking. Once the is off, you will spend quite a bit of time using solvent trying to remove whats left behind.

Sometimes, believe it or not, you can actually clean to top up amazingly nice once all the backing is removed etc. Now if there is nothing but rust under the vinyl top then that is another story. But I have seen cars from down south when the top is removed where the original roof/paint looks pretty darn decent!

I'll have to dig through all my pics and find them from when we removed the vinyl top off our bird when we went from red to silver and when we installed the new black top and also when we installed the top on the LeMans. I believe that is when I wrote the article so that was only about a year ago now. It was a VERY detailed article from step one all the way through with tons of prep. This is where you make or break the install. Good solid prep makes the difference between a NICE install and a so so install.

Not to brag, but I will say, we have had MANY compliments on the install on both, our old Bird and now our LeMans. When people find out that Tammy and I and Jeffrey did the install they can not believe we did it! Some of you have seen one or both of our cars in person. Again, not to brag, but I am quite fussy and that is actually the reason I ended up doing my own install because I have seen "professional" installations where the seams are not centered, wrinkles in the vinyl, not pulled 100% tight, pulled too tight (this is when the seams are wavy) and the list goes on and on and on.

Also, someone asked above, yes, the drip rail trim DOES go over the vinyl! I've seen MANY professional installs take the shortcut and not bother to do this and there are MANY reasons for this! I believe I covered that in my article. If not I will add it as I learned yet another lesson on my LeMans regarding this very topic! I'll see if I can post this tomorrow...
Posted By: hslager69 Re: vinyl roof - 03/17/12 04:32 AM
http://shop.autocraftinvestments.com/ind...tr=C-12118A-1AK

Will this install kit work for a 69,the kit is for 67-68
Posted By: 68tpls400 Re: vinyl roof - 03/17/12 05:21 PM
The picture is horrible, and not representing original parts at all. Those are completely different than what I took off of a '68 and a '69 'bird.

They may work, but are not original. No spring clip is part of the original set-up either.
Posted By: hslager69 Re: vinyl roof - 03/17/12 05:55 PM
okay thanks,do you have a pic the correct ones? Is there studs welded to the car like the windshield trim? or just screws holding down the clips?
Posted By: 68tpls400 Re: vinyl roof - 03/17/12 07:42 PM
Per my earlier post, there are studs sticking out of the rear quarters for the plastic clips to slide over, and then two holes for the trim posts. I will try to get some picts taken this weekend.
Posted By: Firebob Re: vinyl roof - 03/17/12 07:59 PM
IIRC the studs are the same as the ones in the window channel so I bet you could use the screw in replacement studs.
Posted By: hslager69 Re: vinyl roof - 03/17/12 11:53 PM
Originally Posted By Firebob
IIRC the studs are the same as the ones in the window channel so I bet you could use the screw in replacement studs.


Thanks that's what i was hoping,easy to use just drill hole & screw them in.
Posted By: hslager69 Re: vinyl roof - 03/19/12 10:40 PM
Originally Posted By 68tpls400
Per my earlier post, there are studs sticking out of the rear quarters for the plastic clips to slide over, and then two holes for the trim posts. I will try to get some picts taken this weekend.


Did you get a chance to take some pics? I need to know what the clips look like and what the studs looked like so i don't order the wrong ones.I wonder if the 67-68 clips are the same?


Okay found this http://www.FIREBIRDCENTRAL.com/product_p/cnv-8.htm

I ordered the vinyl top and new drip rail moulding (previous owner hit one piece with a sander or grinder)
Posted By: 68tpls400 Re: vinyl roof - 03/19/12 11:09 PM
Yes, that picture shows the correct plastic clips. And yes, they could be put on with screws instead of studs. The spring clip is not original, but would likely work at the corners.
Posted By: hslager69 Re: vinyl roof - 03/20/12 04:00 AM
Thanks
Posted By: Earlybird Re: vinyl roof - 03/23/12 07:23 PM
Ok, here is the write up that I wrote about vinyl top install. I think I will create a whole new thread and post a ton of pics to go with it:

Parts and materials:
a) Correct vinyl Ok, here is my best attempt at offering up step by step instructions. If anyone else can think of something to add, by all means as I am no expert I am simply trying to help someone who may want to attempt their own installation.

top (pre-stitched seams)
b) 3 quarts of BRAND name contact cement (NOT RUBBER CEMENT) 3M or Weldwood come to mind
c) 1, 3" mini roller and mini roller pan (must be hard plastic or metal not the cheap light plastic ones that come with the roller as the contact cement will eat through them (don't ask). A pro shop/installer would use a spray gun to spray the contact cement, although this would make things a bit faster, rolling it on works perfectly fine.

Tools required:
d) China marker/grease pencil (they come in white, black or red) pick a color that will show up clearly on your vehicles paint color.
e) Masking tape
f) Several brand new single edge razor blades (don't cheap out, buy brand name blades and have several of them handy) you will need to make several CLEAN cuts and the backing on the vinyl is tough on these blades.
g) Tape measure
h) Clean rags
i) Paint thinner
j) One full roll of wax paper (but your own, don't steal it from the Mrs. ask me how I know)
k) Lint roller (one of those rubbery type is best (Mr. Sticky) (borrow but be sure to put it back from the Mrs.)

First, be sure to have a clean work area as you DO NOT want ANYTHING getting stuck to the felt side of the vinyl top. The smallest particle can & will be seen under the vinyl once glued to the roof.

Also, two additional helpers is a good idea. More than two might become more of a problem than anything. Let the "extra" helpers sit and drink your beer and tell you how you should be doing the installation.

1) Lay your vinyl on the floor with the felt side up. Use a measuring tape to find center on both front & back. Keep in mind the seams are often wider towards the back then they are the front so be sure to measure correctly as this is crucial. Once you mark the felt side of the vinyl top with a china marker at the front & back locations use a straight edge to connect the two marks using the china marker.

Now that you have a center line on the backside of the vinyl you may want to roll the entire piece of vinyl with a lint roller to remove any and or all specks of dust, lint, sand etc.

2) At this point you should have all your trim moldings off the car (on a 66-67 "A"-body you will need all moldings off the rear window and only the top pieces off the front window) and also the gutter trim (some people install the vinyl leaving the gutter trim on the car, cut the vinyl and tuck in the gutter meeting the trim piece. I did my 68 Firebird this way and have seen shops do them this way. Bottom line is they vinyl will shrink eventually and the first place you will see it is here.

Also, now is the time to trace your vinyl top trim moldings onto the body of the car. Trace them on both sides of the trim piece (top and bottom) so you can clearly see them on the paint. Don't worry, China markers wipe right off. This step is VERY important when it comes time to trim the vinyl near the end of the install.

If you remove the gutter trim and wrap the vinyl top down into and around the gutter lip your installation will look a thousand times nicer. However, removing and re-installing these trip pieces is not easy and usually results in dinging them up. It is said that the repops go on much easier and look better than originals only because they are made with a lighter material and have much more flexibility. All I can tell you is that it is next to impossible to get the originals back on without using a rubber mallet and you know what that means.

Once you measure and find center on the front & rear glass, put a heavy vertical mark on the masking tape that you had placed near the center of the glass. Putting a line on the tape gives you dead center. Using the masking tape on the glass gives you a surface to draw the center line on and is easy to see.

3) Ok, now that your layout is complete (center line drawn on the backside of the vinyl and vertical center lines marked on front & rear glass), the backside of the vinyl has been cleaned, wipe the roof of the car down with a strong degreaser ie: lacquer thinner to ensure the roof is completely clear of wax, cleaners and or polishes etc. Now is a good time to lay the vinyl over the roof of the car.

It is recommended to now let the vinyl top drape over the roof of the car for a couple of hours preferably outside in the direct sun. This will heat up the vinyl and allow it to stretch, become pliable and reduce wrinkles etc. Go have breakfast, brunch or lunch at this point. Keep in mind, it is still early morning at this point so it's too early for a beer.

4) Ok, so now you've had something to eat and vinyl has had some time to warm up the process is ready to begin. Hopefully your helpers are not hung over or worse already started drinking, you will need their help!

Standing on one side of the car fold the vinyl over towards the other side about 12" more than center. Your center line on the vinyl should be clearly visible. Now begin to roll contact cement on the vinyl. I recommend you go one roller width on each side of your center line. This will give you approx 6" strip of contact cement right down the center of the vinyl. Now do the same on the roof of the car. I recommend doing the vinyl first as it takes twice as long for the contact cement to dry on the vinyl than it does on roof (the metal is usually hot and tends to dry the contact cement fast).

If you have never worked with contact cement this may sound crazy, but, contact cement ONLY WORKS WHEN BOTH SURFACES ARE DRY TO THE TOUCH! Now remember, once the two pieces touch you are done. Typically once the two piece touch one another you can not get them apart. Especially with vinyl because if you do attempt to pull them apart, the vinyl stretches and you WILL end up with a wrinkle in that spot!

5) Now that the vinyl has a 6" strip of contact cement down the middle, and the roof does as well, now it is time to mate the two together. THIS IS THE MOST CRITICAL STEP IN THE ENTIRE PROCESS! Getting this first center section of the vinyl mated to the dead center of the roof will determine the rest of the installation. If you screw up here, there is no making it up somewhere else.

Now here is the key to getting the two lined up dead nuts. Before flipping the vinyl over to meet the roof tear off a piece of wax paper the entire length of the roof and let it drape down the front and rear glass. With the wax paper in place flip the vinyl over with the wax paper in between the vinyl and the roof. Wax paper will not stick to contact cement. Now line up the mark on the back of the vinyl with the marks on the front & rear glass on the masking tape. This ensure that you are centered from side to side. Now, if you are installing a vinyl top on a car where the vinyl comes down the "A" pillar (ie: Firebird) you will also need to ensure that the seems for the pieces that travel down the "A" pillar are within 2"-3" from the top of the roof line. In this installation on an "A"-body, the vinyl does not travel down the "A"-pillar arm so you do not need to worry about this.

IMPORTANT NOTE: DO NOT trim ANY excess vinyl off the material until AFTER THE ENTIRE GLUING process is 100% COMPLETE!. You need the access to use to pull and stretch the vinyl to ensure that it is tight and wrinkle free.

Ok, so now that you have the vinyl centered from side to side and front to back, hold the front of the vinyl down on the roof and have someone keep the vinyl from moving from side to side. Have another helper pull the wax paper from the back window area towards the rear bumper. Be sure this person pulls the wax paper NICE AND SLOW and have the other person in the back watching the marks on the vinyl and on the rear glass masking tape that they stay lined up with one another. As the wax paper puller person slowly pulls the wax paper out from between the vinyl and the roof, you, the installer must make sure that the vinyl is laying down smoothly on to the roof using your flat hand to smooth it along.

Once this process is complete and everything is lined up dead nuts front to back, side to side you are now on your way to a successful install. This step has set the job up to be really nice or really whacked.

6) Now it's a matter of flipping the vinyl back over towards the opposite side you are working on and laying down another 6" wide path of contact cement on the vinyl and on the roof. Let it dry to the touch (5-10 mins). Then put yet another NEW piece of wax paper on the roof, flip the vinyl over and repeat the pulling of the wax paper from the rear. I recommend always working from front to rear all the way through the install. That way you are pulling in one direction and keep the excess going towards the back.

7) Now I recommend going from side to side and here is my reasoning. By going from one side of the car to the other you can continually measure and watch the distance of the seams in the vinyl to the gutter. Remember, you are pulling and slightly stretching the vinyl towards the outside edge of the roof. If you finished one side without alternating you might pull one side tighter than the other and you could end up with one seam closer to the gutter than the other. This way you can monitor this and keep them the same.

8) I also recommend that you do not glue the front channel or rear window channel until the end. This gives you the ability to lift the vinyl ever so gently at the edges to maybe pull a bit tighter to give those edges a nice clean tight look.

9) Continue to work in the 6" strips until you reach the gutter. Let the vinyl hang over the edge of the gutter and wait to glue the face of the gutter as per step #8. Now you will need to work the rear sail panel area. Continue with the 6" strip theory as you really need to keep a handle on this area and your vinyl holder/puller/stretcher person is going to be critical at this point. This person needs to pull quite hard and also keep the vinyl from touching the roof. Let that person do the pulling and stretching and you do the "working" of the vinyl to the roof. I don't think you can effectively be the puller/stretcher and the smoother person. The third person is still the wax paper puller person.

IMPORTANT NOTE: During this sail panel area of the install, only work the outside surface of the sail panel. DO NOT attempt to wrap the vinyl around the backside of the "wing" or sail panel. Just the face for now.

10) Ok, now it's time to work the inside sail panel area. Coat the entire inside of this area of the roof and coat ALL of the excess vinyl for this area. This ensures that you will have enough of the vinyl coated and won't have to apply more contact cement and have to wait. You want to wrap this area in once clean attempt. Standing at the rear quarter panel have your stretcher person reach over the back end of the car from the opposite side and pull the vinyl towards them. Then you begin the wrap the sail panel as you are pulling the vinyl tight.

This area of the "A"-body is unique to the 66-67 and is also critical to get the top tight and looking nice as it should. I have seen vinyl tops installed by "professionals" who screw up the entire install in this area.

IMPORTANT NOTE: At some point during the wrapping of the sail panel area, you will need to make a relief cut in the vinyl directly in the rounded corner area of the back window. HOWEVER, DO NOT CUT TOO DEEP as you do not want to see ANY of the cut on the lip/bend in the corner itself. DO NOT OVER CUT as it will look like crap in the end.

11) Now that you have the flat areas of the vinyl glued down and things are looking good, I bet your thinking the hard part is over. Well, not really. The hard part in my opinion is the trimming and finishing. If you cut the vinyl too short ANYWHERE during the trimming phase, it will show and it will ruin an otherwise nice installation. So be careful and use new blades, switching them out OFTEN. You want really nice, clean cuts and no fuzzy crap sticking out from under and of the trim moldings etc.

12) Trimming the bottom edge where the vinyl top moldings attach. Again, DO NOT TRIM THE VINYL TOO SHORT AS IT WILL SHRINK OVER TIME. You want the vinyl to go down behind the vinyl top moldings about 3/4 of the way. This way as the vinyl shrinks over time it will not "pop" out from behind the moldings (I've seen this before and it looks terrible and there is NO way to fix it).

This is where the tracing of the moldings onto the body of the car comes into play. The marks allow you to use them as a guide and you can transfer the marks onto the vinyl so you can pull the vinyl away from the body as you ABSOLUTELY DO NOT WANT TO TRIM THE VINYL WHILE IT'S LAYING ON THE BODY!!!!!!!!!! If you score or cut into the clear coat while trimming the vinyl, you WILL get rusting and or bubbling in the paint I guarantee it. Ask me how I know. I scored the clear coat when installing the vinyl top on my 68 Firebird. Ten years later when the car was totaled, I pulled the vinyl back and in EVERY SINGLE LITTLE PLACE WHERE I SCORED THE CLEAR COAT, THERE WAS BUBBLING OF THE PAINT!

13) Trimming the sail panel area and installing the trim moldings. Now I know from the factory GM used the vinyl top molding clips. A long clip with one screw on one end. However, I simply used 4 spring style slide thingys. I have no clue what they are actually called, but they have a wire off the side of them and snap into the trim/molding and they have a threaded post sticking off the backside. I recommend these for several reasons. One, they are threaded and simply use a nut inside the trunk area. Two, they will allow the trim piece to slide back and forth, therefore the holes can be drilled anywhere.

Now what I did was use one of these clips on each "V" piece placed dead center of the longer part of the "V". Then I used 3 of them on the long side moldings, one on each end about 1" in from the very end, then one dead center between the ends ones. This pulls the ends nice and tight, pulls the seam of the "V" and the side piece together nice and tight as well. All in all this worked out VERY well.

IMPORTANT NOTE: If you decide to use the threaded stud type clip as I did, getting the nuts on the shaft of the clip closest to the rear quarter window IS NOT AN EASY TASK and does require the removal of the back side panels of the interior as you CAN NOT REACH THEM FROM INSIDE THE TRUNK! Also, the passenger side has a brace that runs near this area making it a bit more difficult than the driver's side. I'm sure this is why GM used the long style clips, even still I like the threaded shaft type better in my opinion mainly because you don't have that long clip up against the side of the car where water can lay just as it does on the door mirror mounting bracket.

14) Trimming and gluing the front and rear window channel. Now is the time to trim the vinyl at the front and rear. Be sure to leave enough to go down into the glass channels you do not want the vinyl to pop from behind the window trim. You can leave more than you might expect as those channels are deep. Be sure to put plenty of contact cement down into those channels and be sure the vinyl has plenty as well as it is crucial for these areas to hold tight. A well installed vinyl top will have sharp, crisp edges in these areas. Loose and or wrinkles in this area just kill the install if not done properly.

Well, that's about it. Clean up is easy and I wouldn't be concerned about contact cement that may have spilled and or dripped on the glass and or body of the car as it cleans of quite easily especially once it dries, it pretty much peels off and doesn't require any type of solvent to remove it.

Taking your time and lots of patience is critical to a successful installation. Personally, I am fairly picky when it comes to this type of thing. In my opinion a sloppy vinyl top install will absolutely ruin the look of any car. Another thing to be careful of and I have seen this with professional installs, when pulling the vinyl tight towards the outsides, be sure not to distort the seams. In other words, if you pull tighter in one area than another, the seam will have "s" curves in them opposed to a nice straight arch or straight line etc.

I hope folks find this helpful. I am sure there may be other ways and other ideas etc. that may work even better as I do not claim to be a pro nor do I claim to know what I am doing. All I do know is that I have now installed two tops on two different cars and having more time than money I have been able to save myself some money that could then be spent elsewhere on the car.

I looked at it like this, if the top costs $135 and I screw it up, well I am out $135. If I am able to install it myself and look decent I saved $300-500 on labor to have it done. I will admit that this top came out better than my first one and also came out better than I had hoped it would. Now that is something that doesn't happen often at least for me.

Now it’s Miller time. It’s five o’clock somewhere…


Posted By: hslager69 Re: vinyl roof - 03/23/12 08:04 PM
Thanks Joe, great write-up. I forgot you were going to post this,Well worth reading!
Posted By: Earlybird Re: vinyl roof - 03/25/12 05:53 AM
Thanks. I will create a new thread and post a boat load of pics as well. I just have to find the time! I'll try to do it soon!!!
Posted By: hokie1984 Re: vinyl roof - 03/26/12 01:22 AM
That definitely needs to go into the FAQ section. I don't have a vinyl top, but for those that do, it was incredible.
Posted By: hslager69 Re: vinyl roof - 04/03/12 04:57 AM
Bob ,Received the vinyl moulding today.You sure packaged it well. Thanks.a little polish and it will be good to go.
Posted By: Firebob Re: vinyl roof - 04/03/12 06:44 PM
Happy they made it there in good shape. Now hurry up and get that top on!! I can't wait to see what it'll look like. laugh
Posted By: hslager69 Re: vinyl roof - 04/03/12 07:48 PM
So much going on right know (see farm for sale thread),but still want it done.
Posted By: shoooter Re: vinyl roof - 07/23/12 02:02 AM
i have a question for the vinyl top guys, can someone take a vinyl top off and paint it or are the roof panels different? and if someone wanted it on can they just weld the little studs on the rear quarters and front window?
Posted By: 68tpls400 Re: vinyl roof - 07/23/12 04:06 AM
Originally Posted By shoooter
i have a question for the vinyl top guys, can someone take a vinyl top off and paint it or are the roof panels different? and if someone wanted it on can they just weld the little studs on the rear quarters and front window?


Yes, after cleaning/stripping all the goo ofo of it and filling the trim mounting hloes and removing the studs.

To reverse, add studs or screws, and replace the mounting holes for the trim.

Front, side, and rear windows are the same regardless of vinyl top or not. The roof (body) panel is the same too.
Posted By: Firebob Re: vinyl roof - 07/23/12 06:03 AM
If removing the vinal top permanently be prepared to do some body work on the roof. Some of them, if they were slated to receive a cover, they didn't finish off the leaded joints good enough for paint. Mine was in this condition when I pulled the orig cover off.
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