Yesterday afternoon I was driving my 69 vert when it sputtered during a turning acceleration and then I remembered that that very morning, I looked at the odometer and saw it had been 102 miles since my last fill up. Since I am averaging 8 mpg (I know...sad!), I knew I would be chancing it. Sure enough, after that sputtering, my mind raced about the closest gas station. It was 3/4 mile away. I rode for another 1/4 mile, but the sputtering was bad. Since the gas station was on the left at a major light, I did not want to get stuck in the left lane backing up traffic (no shoulder). I pulled over, called for help, got a 5 gal gas container and when I got back, I realized what a pain in the a$$ it is to use one of those gas containers is to use since the chrome bumper sticks out so far from the fill spout.
Anyway, I got to the gas station, filled up and as I was leaving, it began sputtering again, idling low, backfiring with big black plumes of smoke and finally shut off. The car cranked without starting.
I came back last night, and while jumping the car with a truck, I cranked and cranked. A few times the car sounded like it was about to turn over, but could never keep it going. I stopped when the positive cable to the starter was getting real hot.
Came back this morning, same story. Tried starter spray into the carb, no change. That, plus the fact I can see gas inside the carb made me think flooding.
Came back this evening, same story. Disconnected fuel line to inspect filter. It is a paper filter, a little twisted up, but I can see light through it. And fuel is being pumped. I am going to let it air out overnight and try again tomorrow, but I cannot leave it at Walmart indefinitely. Eventually, I am going to have to cough up about $150 to tow it home so I can work on it with all my tools. Not really wanting to lay out the cash, though.
Just going back to basics... need three things: 1) fuel (have that), 2)spark (how best to check this) and 3) air flow (I have that).
The battery has been a little weak lately, but I usually have no problem starting. But with two days of cranking (with the help of a truck jump starting), this battery is probably going to need to be replaced.
Before you try to start it the next time, bring someone with you. You will need two people for this. Take off the air cleaner and cup your hands over the top of the carb, as to block off all the air the best you can. While you do this, have someone crank it over. You might want to try this with the gas cap on, and with it off. I hope this works for you............Mark
Man, between you and the guy wanting to change his timing chain at the local Autozone...
...I sure am &$%@%$& glad I have Haggerty insurance on my FGF. Free towing. BTW, my other cars are all with State Farm. Free tow coverage is like $6 a year extra with them.
Back to your problem. I am going to guess - Holley carb?
2012 Mustang Boss 302 #1918, Competition Orange. FGF replacement 2006 Mustang V6 Pony, Vista Blue. Factory ordered. 2019 BMW X3 (Titled to the wife, but I'm always driving it for her. So I'm claiming it) Old projects, gone but not forgotten: 1967 FB 400, original CA car. After 22 years of work, trashed by the guy who was supposed to paint it. I had to sell it. 1980 Turbo Trans Am 1970 Mustang fastback, 351C 4Bbl, auto 1988 Mustang GT, 5 speed 1983 F-150 4x4, built 302 1994 Chevy K2500 HD 4x4, 454 TBI
I had this problem when I ran my bird out of gas (bad sending unit)I have a quadrajet 4 barrel. That being said, crap from the tank got sucked up into the carb. even with a fuel filter, very small particals can get stuck between the needle and seat. I recomend trying this before tearing into the carb. By resticting the air flow while cranking it creates more suction, and just might be enough to clear it out. I tried this, and after a few attempts, it worked like a charm
i had a problem like that recently. if i floored it, it would start but still sputter. carburetor problem. luckily i was almost home. put on a spare carb, runs great now.
if you were at 102 miles, that should be over a quarter of a tank left
When was the last tune up, are you running points? sounds like the points closed up. the car will sputter then die and won't restart. Also thinking carb is dirty, when was it last cleaned and how long was the fuel in it?
I had this problem when I ran my bird out of gas (bad sending unit)I have a quadrajet 4 barrel. That being said, crap from the tank got sucked up into the carb. even with a fuel filter, very small particals can get stuck between the needle and seat. I recomend trying this before tearing into the carb. By resticting the air flow while cranking it creates more suction, and just might be enough to clear it out. I tried this, and after a few attempts, it worked like a charm
I was going to suggest the same thing. Except I found this was a common occurance with Holleys. The good thing here about the Holley is that you can pull the needle valves out to clean them without taking the carb apart.
2012 Mustang Boss 302 #1918, Competition Orange. FGF replacement 2006 Mustang V6 Pony, Vista Blue. Factory ordered. 2019 BMW X3 (Titled to the wife, but I'm always driving it for her. So I'm claiming it) Old projects, gone but not forgotten: 1967 FB 400, original CA car. After 22 years of work, trashed by the guy who was supposed to paint it. I had to sell it. 1980 Turbo Trans Am 1970 Mustang fastback, 351C 4Bbl, auto 1988 Mustang GT, 5 speed 1983 F-150 4x4, built 302 1994 Chevy K2500 HD 4x4, 454 TBI
Salmon38, you are correct Sir! Im just not a big fan of Hollys. Im what you would call an old school quadrajet crumudgon who likes to tweak um to my taste!
Salmon38, you are correct Sir! Im just not a big fan of Hollys. Im what you would call an old school quadrajet crumudgon who likes to tweak um to my taste!
Then you have an open invitation to visit the geographic center of the US (OK close) and come tune my carb to your hearts content.
I will treat you to my favorite spot in old Bricktown in OKC that has 108 beers on tap. Really!
2012 Mustang Boss 302 #1918, Competition Orange. FGF replacement 2006 Mustang V6 Pony, Vista Blue. Factory ordered. 2019 BMW X3 (Titled to the wife, but I'm always driving it for her. So I'm claiming it) Old projects, gone but not forgotten: 1967 FB 400, original CA car. After 22 years of work, trashed by the guy who was supposed to paint it. I had to sell it. 1980 Turbo Trans Am 1970 Mustang fastback, 351C 4Bbl, auto 1988 Mustang GT, 5 speed 1983 F-150 4x4, built 302 1994 Chevy K2500 HD 4x4, 454 TBI
I would check to see if you have spark. You'll need a friend. Pull a plug and turn the motor with the plug near something metal to arch to. It might be a good idea to see what your plugs look like too. If they are super rich or covered in gas.
Salmon38, you are correct Sir! Im just not a big fan of Hollys. Im what you would call an old school quadrajet crumudgon who likes to tweak um to my taste!
Then you have an open invitation to visit the geographic center of the US (OK close) and come tune my carb to your hearts content.
I will treat you to my favorite spot in old Bricktown in OKC that has 108 beers on tap. Really!
Boy! That would be a long way to go, but the sound of 108 beers does seem refreshing!
My car floods after sitting hot for a period. I hold the pedal to the floor when cranking which allows tons of air in while not pulline in any more gas.
When was the last tune up, are you running points? sounds like the points closed up. the car will sputter then die and won't restart. Also thinking carb is dirty, when was it last cleaned and how long was the fuel in it?
WOW! Thank you everyone for all the input. My heart is all warmed up, but not the engine...
Anyway, found out I had roadside with my insurance, so car is back home. Will work on tonight.
--Rochester 2GV, rebuilt a few months ago by me.
--Points & Condenser replaced in October, regapped... I want to say in February.
--Gas tank was filled back up after I ran out, fuel getting to filter.
Funny , i had the same kind of thing happen on sunday afternoon>>>> Someday I’ll learn.. not.
So Sunday it was fairly nice out . I decided to take my bird for a test and tune day ;-) cleaned it so it looks presentable incase police see car ;-) Looks nice from the outside cruising by.. nice bright blue pearlescent (changes colors as you drive by) shiny 1969 firebird 400.! Cruising around adjusting this and that. Mind you interior = none , 2 seats and a steering wheel NO dash board , hence no gas gauge.. Got trans adjusted for max shift points etc. shifts right at peak HP 4800 RPM when decked, I still think I have a little more HP I can get out of it from tweaking .its running a bit rich. Decided to stop and pick up a part at downtown Manchester. On way home got to a major intersection…..bam outa gas..lol Two police cruisers stop to see what's the issue . I told them out a gas . they just looked at car (rubber all over quaterpanels)and saw interior and said your gunna fix that right ;-) Yup soon as I get home! They said do you know how many tickets we could write ? I said no. they responded, you don’t want too , nice car , get it home.
Whew.. hehhehehe
Still nothing like the sound of a 6.6 liter Pontiac v8, Quadra jet , headers and flow master 40’s shifting at 4800rpm into 2nd gear! Good thing they didn’t see or hear that part..lol The dash is back in the car.
--It continues to crank, and every few seconds, it sounds like it will turnover, but never does. Even without even pressing the pedal at the beginning of my attempts today, the smell of gas is strong, both around engine bay and in exhaust pipes.
--As per one suggestion, I covered the carburetor (Roch 2GV rebuilt by me a few months ago) with cardboard taped pretty well around edges to restrict airflow and cranked (with and without gas cap on 4 times for extended periods of time). When I removed cardboard, car cranked same as before.
--I removed spark plug wire #1, exposed the metal inside boot, placed metal close to windshield wiper arm (within normal spark plug gap) and saw no spark when cranking. I know, why the windshield wiper? Because I had to do this by myself and that was the only unpainted metal I could observe while cranking from inside the car!
2) Get a Chilton's Manual for the Firebird if you do not already have one.
3) Go to the Troubleshooting chapter and follow the steps. It's pretty methodical and will probably get you running again. Other repair manuals for older (non-computer) cars will probably be just as good. It appears that you now have a spark issue as opposed to a carb (fuel) issue.
2012 Mustang Boss 302 #1918, Competition Orange. FGF replacement 2006 Mustang V6 Pony, Vista Blue. Factory ordered. 2019 BMW X3 (Titled to the wife, but I'm always driving it for her. So I'm claiming it) Old projects, gone but not forgotten: 1967 FB 400, original CA car. After 22 years of work, trashed by the guy who was supposed to paint it. I had to sell it. 1980 Turbo Trans Am 1970 Mustang fastback, 351C 4Bbl, auto 1988 Mustang GT, 5 speed 1983 F-150 4x4, built 302 1994 Chevy K2500 HD 4x4, 454 TBI
That's what I have been thinking... the spark. It just seems weird that it could be that when it happened at the same exact time as me running out of gas.
And as for my spark test, three concerns...
1) maybe I didn't have it at the right distance for the arcing to occur,
2) maybe I am expecting to see quite a spark arc across that tiny distance and may be missing it in daylight (maybe I will try again when it is darker) or
3) maybe the windshield wiper arm is not grounded metal.
If you are not getting a spark, 1st thing, condition of all the plugs, now the wires, then check for power to the coil, then the cap and rotor's condition, if you're running pionts, then the coil, if everything's ok, you'll be going deeper. Good luck Take Salmon38's advice and get a Chilton manual it'll help you alot, you can find them on ebay cheap.
If you have a timing light you can hook it up, sit inside the car with the trigger pulled and crank the engine over. Doesn't matter which wire you have it hooked to, at some point it should light up if you're getting fire to the plugs. If not it may be as simple as a bad coil or something else amiss inside the dist. Did you pull the cap and take a look?
I would take a spark plug out and keep it connected to the wire. Crank the engine over and you will (or will not) see spark at the spark plug tip.
That way you are sure the gap is set correctcly to see the spark and won't be mislead if your wire is too far away from what you are trying to arc to. My .02 cents.
Timing light showed no spark getting to any of the 8 wires (the #1 did flash once).
Multimeter across coil wires (one to distributor, the other to ignition switch) showed voltage when cranked.
Opened distributor. Point had opened somehow to .040, regapped contact to .016. Cleaned some crud off the contacts inside the distributor cap.
Cranked and roared to life .... BUT, it went back to doing what it did right before it shut off for good 4 days ago. Loud backfiring, missed firing, low idle despite pumping pedal. Then shut off.
I am going to grab lunch (and a beer) and try again this afternoon.
Sounds like spark problem fixed, back to a carb issue.
2012 Mustang Boss 302 #1918, Competition Orange. FGF replacement 2006 Mustang V6 Pony, Vista Blue. Factory ordered. 2019 BMW X3 (Titled to the wife, but I'm always driving it for her. So I'm claiming it) Old projects, gone but not forgotten: 1967 FB 400, original CA car. After 22 years of work, trashed by the guy who was supposed to paint it. I had to sell it. 1980 Turbo Trans Am 1970 Mustang fastback, 351C 4Bbl, auto 1988 Mustang GT, 5 speed 1983 F-150 4x4, built 302 1994 Chevy K2500 HD 4x4, 454 TBI
But how did points open to .030 (sorry, accidentally wrote 040 in last post)? I can see how the gap would lessen as you get wear on a new block of the points, but increasing gap? It is as if the screw was shaken out. Anyway, now I will need to go to thr fuel system again.
Glad you now have spark, fuel, and air. As for why it stalled it could be fuel pressure. If you have an edelbrock carb and your fuel pressure is above 6 psi you can be prone to stalls when you corner hard and let off the gas. Check page 8.
Since you've already discovered issues within the dist I'd guess your other problems are related as well. Can you swap out the dist with a known good one to see if that fixes it? I worked on cars before that would idle fine but would not rev up that turned out to be cracks in the cap.
It's May right now, dude and you drove them how many miles while they were gapped at .040, I'd say they need too be cleaned or replaced? Maybe? The cap should be still good, but it's not much of a cost to replace with a fresh one. Then see what happen's with her?
It's May right now, dude and you drove them how many miles while they were gapped at .040, I'd say they need too be cleaned or replaced? Maybe? The cap should be still good, but it's not much of a cost to replace with a fresh one. Then see what happen's with her?
Sorry for the miscommunication. No, I gapped the points in October to .016. I regapped back up to .016 from .014 in February.
After the shenangigans that started 5 days ago, the gap had somehow increased to .030 (I mistakenly wrote .040). On Friday, I regapped down to .016, cleaned off some contacts, and it started. But backfired and low idled despite trying to pump with pedal. Now I am going to reopen distributor and see if it held at .016.
Are you sure the points are tight,it sounds like they are getting loose on ya. I run points also and I don't ajust my points that much but I use a dwell meter to do my adjustment, it's a little bit more accurate. How's the wires look?
No one has mentioned yet but if you have a full 12 volts at the coil it will cook through the points pretty fast. You should check and make sure a previous owner hasn't removed the resistor wire and you should only have 8.5 - 9 volts at the coil.
No one has mentioned yet but if you have a full 12 volts at the coil it will cook through the points pretty fast. You should check and make sure a previous owner hasn't removed the resistor wire and you should only have 8.5 - 9 volts at the coil.
I wasn't aware of any resistor wire. What color is it? And where does it attach to the coil?
I checked the wiring diagram. I see only 3 wires:
1) The main one out of the top of the coil to the top of the distributor
2) The small wire out the edge of the top to the distributor
3) Another wire which I assume goes all the way to the ignition switch
Every time points fire, they erode. It is normal for gap to grow with wear.
The resistance wire runs from coil + to ignition hot.
For test purposes you don't really need to worry about which one it specifically is. Just turn your ignition on (engine can be off) and see how many volts you have at the coil. Should be LESS than battery voltage by several volts...9-ish.
If you see nearly full 12+ volt battery voltage, someone has removed or bypassed the resistor wire. This can cause rapid erosion of the points.
When testing this, do it quickly and shut it off. Understand that leaving ignition 'on' for any length of time will cook yet another set of points...
You can end ALL of this headache and all future tuning problems (that are related to points) by simply eliminating them, by installing a Pertronix Ignitor unit in their place. Pays for itself almost instantly...completely hidden under the distributor cap.
But if you're a purist that wants things to stay all original, enjoy the process of maintaining your points system. Regognize that any husband worth his salt in the 50's and 60's knew how to reset his points in the Walmart parking lot with his matchbook when such things regularly happened (of course it wasn't Walmart at the time...) So even if you're not a smoker, toss some matchbooks in your glovebox anyway...and learn how to do this so you aren't left stranded again.
But if you're a purist that wants things to stay all original, enjoy the process of maintaining your points system. Regognize that any husband worth his salt in the 50's and 60's knew how to reset his points in the Walmart parking lot with his matchbook when such things regularly happened (of course it wasn't Walmart at the time...) So even if you're not a smoker, toss some matchbooks in your glovebox anyway...and learn how to do this so you aren't left stranded again.
Thanks for recognizing where my thought process is (but don't get me wrong... if ten $100 bills were to magically grow in my garden tomorrow, I would have a that ole Rochester 2GV out and slap in a Quadra-Jet and new manifold!!!)
I checked the points today again. Back up to .020 from .016 yesterday! Something is burning up my points. And when I look at that little silver-ish looking disc on the arm, it is not looking as fat as it used to.
Anyone know where I should purchase a new set of points, rotor and cap? I picked up the last set at Autozone in a pinch. I am assuming all points are not created equal.
And y'all are awesome. I enjoy the sense of camaraderie amongst 1st genners.
Find out if autozone sells Accel points, they are alot better than the crap AZ brand, the wire screws in. You don't have a speed shop near ya? Hell I like running with and without points, they need to be checked regularly, the kit that was suggested would be a wise investment, no more adjusting. But the matchbook trick, it's just a gapper while you file them and reinstall them, that's all, why you don't travel with a tool box in your trunk?
Thanks for recognizing where my thought process is (but don't get me wrong... if ten $100 bills were to magically grow in my garden tomorrow, I would have a that ole Rochester 2GV out and slap in a Quadra-Jet and new manifold!!!)
My matchbook comment is mostly tongue-in-cheek...my only point (pun intended) is that points take frequent and regular checking, re-gapping, and maintenance. And in the "good ol days" this was OFTEN temporarily done roadside...due to being temporarily stranded...but indeed with a small/adequate carry-along emergency tool kit (screwdriver & file) in addition to the matches in the gentleman smoker's pocket....
If your points are eroding that quickly, I'm even more likely to be convinced that you have too much voltage going to 'em. You don't share what was the result of your voltage test? You can do this test with your old/bad points if you want...to save the new ones from the stress of ignition on...
Setting gap is all well and good...but how do you know your gap is truly correct? You MUST use a Dwell meter to help you establish the truly CORRECT gap for your car. What does your dwell meter say?
And please recognize that a Pertronix setup to replace your points will cost you less than ONE of those $100 bills you reference...they are pleasantly inexpensive for the hassles and expenses they eliminate...and you'll NEVER buy, file, gap, or adjust a set of points again in your life, you can sell your dwell meter if you like as a down payment since you won't need it no more...plus the kit won't require you to fix your potentially missing resistor wire...maybe SAVING you money???