Frequently Asked Questions

Q: 1969 Special Color Paint Chips

Does anyone know if Special Colors were offered for 1969 Firebirds?

A: The color will be followed by the Rinshed Mason #

Regular Colors
—————————————————-
Mayfair Maize A-1715
Cameo White A-2080
Liberty Blue Irid. A-2098
Matador Red A-2099R
Warwick Blue Irid. A-2100
Crystal Turquoise Irid. A-2101
Midnight Green Irid. A-2102
Limelight Green Irid. A-2103
Expresso Brown Irid. A-2104
Champagne Irid. A-2105
Antique Gold Irid. A-2106D
Burgundy Irid. A-2107M
Palladium Silver Irid. A-2108
Carousel Red A-2111R (my chart says FB only,indicating its age)
Verdoro Green Irid. A-2110
Goldenrod Yellow A-2119
Windward Blue Irid. A-2123
Starlight Black A-946

Special Order Colors:
—————————————————-
Claret Red Irid A-6089R/169V51R
Nocturne Blue Irid. A-5077/169V29
Castillian Bronze Irid. A-5091/169V81

Trunk Finish: #844 Black-Gray-Aqua Multiflek

Stripe Colors:
White A-1199
Red A-212R
Black A-946

On the back of the chart, it lists the trim combo. # followed by Fisher #, then color and formula #.

This info is then broken down into the actual part- Upper instrumnet panel, Radio Spkr grills, rear window defogger grill, AC Ducts, Steering collumn jacket etc…

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Q: Acid Dipping

I’m considering having my front subframe dipped to remove the old paint etc. The procedure is one type of acid to remove paint and grease followed by hydrochloric to remove rust (there is only a very small amount).

A: One draw back to acid dipping is that if the clean-up isn’t thorough, traces can bleed through the paint and cause blistering or rusting, as Tom Sexton reports. Items with hidden nooks or pockets where the acid cannot be cleaned off adaquately can hold the acid, to come out later. Also, these hidden areas now have no paint or crud to protect the metal from rust since you cannot get paint into areas you cannot see. On thin sheetmetal parts like hoods, or body shells, this is a particular worry. The phosphate dip will probably not provide enough protection in the long run, especially in humid regions, or if the car is exposed to frequent rain or snow.

On my car, I scraped off the grease, dirt, and flaking paint with a paint scraper and cleaned using a degreaser. Then I used a heavy wire wheel on an angle grinder to get the more stubborn paint and surface rust off my subframe (off the car).

One advantage to this time consuming process was that I could then grind or chisel off the welding slag and other blemishes. It’s amazing how sloppy the factory was. I spent several hours over a number of days preping the subframe.

A: I had mine acid dipped years ago. Mine came out great and has never had a problem with leaching of the acid. I did a couple of things to prevent this. First, I washed the frame with soap and water when I got it back. After a long rinse, I blew it dry with compressed air. Then I sprayed the whole frame with lacquer thinner and again air dried it. I then primed it. no problemo!!!

I applied POR-15 to all accessable areas, even inside the boxed fram area, as far as I could reach. There were areas I knew would not be covered, but then I didn’t grind down to bare metal there either.

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Q: Autumn Bronze Irid.

Was ‘I – Autumn Bronze Irid. (A-1996 F)’ available which I found listed on my paint chips as an optional color on Firebird Model only. Most books do not list it as an option. Also, most of the color descriptions end with ‘Irid.’ What was this an abbreviation for in the description?

A: This is true. It is actually a color which GM offered on some of their models starting back in 1966. My father’s first 1967 Firebird had this color on it with a white cordova top and interior. I had my paint shop mix me up a quart of this color and I sprayed an old deck lid to help me decide whether to retain my original color, signet gold, or go with this color. It’s an interesting color because is is a base medium to darker red with gold flake. There is quite a difference in the color of the car from bright sunlight to twilight.

Irid. is sort more iridescent, or in more common terms, paint with metallic flake in it.

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Q: Chassis Paint

What is the correct paint for the chassis and components?

A: HPP published an article on the detailing of Jim Mattison’s 400 car some time back. According to the experts, the whole axle assembly, pumpkin tubes and all was left unpainted (don’t know about the backing plates). GM then gave it a quick shot of black paint from the backside, so the front is unpainted and the back is painted black. I plan to paint my assembly with Seymour Stainless Steel paint first and then do the backside in black. That way, it won’t rust and it will look correct.

As for dash paint, I plan to use PPG Ditlzer products. I have the original paint charts, so my guess is any ditzler supplier can mix it. You could use the reconditioning paint, but it probably won’t have the correct gloss level.

A: 1968 Paint Chart from the 1968 Pontiac Service Information Bulletin:

[pdfjs-viewer url=/dtb/docs/68-I-12.pdf viewer_height=800px fullscreen=true download=false print=true]

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Q:Custom Colors / Special Colors / Spring Release Colors

Just checked my paint code on my car (68 Firebird HT) And it says I-I —- Autumn Bronze and under the front fenders, Inside the doors, under the trunk lid it is bronze analyzer says custom color from other cars at customer Request I’m lost could use some help….

A: It is considered a “custom color” since it was not offered as a Firebird specific color but came from the Corvette. Autumn Bronze is the only one which I have heard got their own code, “I,” instead of the “SPEC” designation on the body tag.

Some body tags have “SHOW,” “SPEC,” “—,” or “PRIME” on them which indicated a show car, special color, or paint primer only. Have had a few people wanting me to tell them what their original paint was from this information. Interesting the things you could get done to your Firebird in the early years. Most of the “SPEC” paints were the spring release colors (Pink Mist, Carnival Red, Marigold Yellow, and Windward Blue).

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Q: Enamel Paint and Primer

When painting something with enamel, should I primer it first, I have heard both yes and no. Will priming it prevent future rust?

A: Think of primer as the glue that sticks the paint to the metal. Without it you will find that the paint will chip easily, or even flake off. It is not a rust preventative. Make sure all rust is gone before painting and you should have no problems. Reappearing rust is always from not removing all of it prior to painting. This means sand blasting or chemically stripping, not just grinding it down.

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Q: Hood Hinge Color

What is the correct finish for hood hinges ?? Black paint ?? Or Zinc plated ??

A: Neither. Hood hinges should be Gray Phosphate, a coating that some platers can do for you. In the special “Pontiac Tech” issue from High Performance Pontiac, there is an extensive article by Jim Dietzler, who in consulting Jim Mattison, has listed a number of under hood, and under car details that are aimed right at the concourse restoration standards for a 1st gen. Firebird. Using color photos, Jim gives detailed information about what is correct for each area, and how some restorers failed to get it right.

Plating costs can be made more reasonable by submitting a number of parts at one time. But if even this is too much for your budget, I believe that a company called OEM paints makes some spray can products that come close to matching the color and texture of the phosphate and oxide coatings used by the factories.

http://www.oempaints.com/

A: You don’t have to send parts to a plater. Go to garage sales and buy a hot plate with thermostat, some large Pyrex or stainless steel pans and dishes and plate your own . It does help to have a bead or sandblaster to clean them up first. I had a local plater do all the original hardware from about 5 early birds at once, handpicking all the best parts to do the yellow, silver, gray and black parts. All the black and gray parts started to rust almost immediately after assembly of entire frame-off. Even the plated parts I saved as spares rusted while in the sealed up containers. Only solution was to remove bolts one by one and replate myself. So moral is it may look good for awhile but if not prepped right, it will turn to Sh**.

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Q: Lower Front Valance Panel Color (Front Air Dam)

What color is the lower front baffle or spoiler suppose to be? I thought it was suppose to be the same as the body buy the auto body guy says it is suppose to be black.

A: The Lower Front Baffle was not a spoiler and was not painted Body Color. Should be same color black as the Upper RH/LH Filler Panels. Only the Camaros had the front ‘chin’ spoiler (and deck lid spoiler) option for 1967, 1968, 1969.

A: The correct color is Semi gloss under chassis black. Do yourself a favor and do it in POR-15 as it is almost impervious to rock chips bugs etc. It will fade in direct sunlight so make sure your car stays on all fours. Be sure and strip off all paint (sandblast) and use their metal prep.

A: Black is correct for this, not body color. I have a couple originals and NOS ones and all appear the same.

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Q: Paint Chip Repair

How do I repair and repaint rock chips and other small defects in the paint?

A: Buy small factory pack of laquer paint. (this is assuming that your car hasn’t been repainted with cheap enamel). Degrease with preperation solvent. Sand a very small area about the size of a pencil eraser including inside of nick with 600 grit. Stir can of UNTHINNED paint very well. Metallics such as this need the extra stirring.

Using a very small paint brush (local hobby store kind) fill the nick with a dab of paint. Dont try and fill all at once and dont brush the paint in the hole, wait a few hours and repeat until the chip or nick is completely filled and actually higher than surrounding area. Wait at least 2 days before sanding.

Use 1000-2000 grit 3M wet or dry sandpaper and just knock off the top of extra paint trying to even it out with surrounding area.Dont sand anymore than necessary as the surrounding paint may be thin. Metallics have a habit of settling to the bottom of each coat of paint so be careful.

Next rub with a small amount of good hand rubbing compound.(not the Turtle wax kind but something from auto paint store) rub the sanding marks out and a little in the surrounding areas. Do a good job and only an expert can tell is been done.

Old timers call this matchsticking as they used matches instead of small paint brushes to do this. Just remember to use UNTHINNED laquer.

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Q: Paint Job Costs

Regarding paint jobs, my 1968 needs one and I’m curious as to what an acceptable price would be for the job without the roof (vinyl) and with no rust or body work needed. I also want to go with the original color (good ol’ Verdoro green). I’m asking because I’ve been told everything from $1000 to $4000. I want a good job (stripped down to base metal) but really don’t want to get ripped either. I even had a neighbor suggest taking it to the local “Tech” school and letting the students do it. I must admit I went to a car show locally last year and saw a 65 Mustang that looked really good and that’s what the owner did. Anyway, just looking for a little input. Thanks in advance. (NOTE: Amounts listed were as of 1999)

A: If all you need is sand and paint then the $1000 – $1500 range should be OK (for a driver). If you can do the disassembly and reassembly yourself, you should get a good job for that amount of money.

I recommend you check with several shops and look at their work. Also ask them who’s paint they use. Stay away from the cheap synthetics, they just don’t hold up. PPG and DuPont are good products. Base coat / clear coat is the way to go.

You may also inquire if you can help with the prep work to further reduce the cost. Be aware, however, that this will slow the process down.

The tech school idea is a good one. I took auto mechanics in high school and we did a lot of work on other people’s cars. If they can fit you into their schedule and you can abide by their’s (remember they will only work a few hours a day) then you can get a good job for less $$$. Remember though, they are learning and spray painting is an acquired skill.

A: Consider this: If a body shop charges $60 per man/hour, and it takes 60 hours to strip, prime, paint and re-assemble your car, that’s $3600 labor. Modern high-quality paints cost (depending on color) anywhere from $200 to $400 dollars for a gallon of color, plus thinners and hardeners. (I was quoted almost $1000 for the materials needed to do base/clear for the GMC Radar Purple.) Add to that a couple hundred for top-quality primers, and another hundred or so for sandpapers, masking tape, etc. This does not even consider the cost of any dent or rust repair that may be concealed with whatever paint is currently on the car! Granted, you may be in an area where you can find a shop that charges $35 an hour, but that’s still $2100 labor!

That said, if you have somebody quoting you $1000 for a complete “paint job”, what are you really getting for your investment?

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Q: Paint Types

What type of paint should I use to paint my Firebird? I know I should not use the original type (even if available), but I want it to look original and take advantage of technology gains.

A: I painted my own to but I used acrylic enamel it sprays great and with some color sanding and buffing when I was finished it really SHINES!! So far it has held up great and I have had it on the car for about a year now. Stay away from paint with metallic flakes in it until you really have a good hand on painting {learned this the hard way} and use a good paint like ppg or sherwin Williams and you will be fine.

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Q: Painting Base Clear or Acrylic Enamel

For those who may not remember, my 1968 april gold bird was hit in the fall and it is now in the process of getting painted.

I need advice in choosing the proper finish and maintaining its original character (and looking its best).

The last owner painted it in acrilic enamel. I really like the way it looks but the painter says it is a cheap, non durable paint and will be hard to blend if ever needed. The painter suggests base clear, claiming it’s a better quality paint. The only doubt I have is the high gloss finish, will I be swaying too much from the original appearance with base clear, and will it look drastically worse (too much glare) than what I am accustomed to?

Does anyone know how good April Gold looks in base clear, and is there anyone who can convince me to stay with acrylic enamel.

A: I hope you get the answer you want on what the modern finish will look like. I will tell you from the modern paint jobs I’ve seen, the advances in chemistry make it almost essential to invest in the best you can buy. Even “inexpensive” paint will cost a bunch, since most of a quality paint job is in the labor. This is no time to go cheap!

The original paint GM used was, as I understand, RM acrylic lacquer. That’s what I used to use when painting anything of mine. I am told that I would be wasting my time with that today however, because those paints do not have the same chemical makeup they had back in the day.

A: I think you are a little confused in what the painter is talking to you about. I think the painter is talking to you about using a basecoat, clearcoat combination. That combination is available in a wide range of types of paint including Lacquer, acrylic enamel, urethane and other high-tech finishes.

For the record, I would use urethane basecoat / clearcoat. It will cost you $100 to $200 more for the paint (and maybe more for prep) depending on what needs to be done to apply the finish. I’ve been using urethane since 1988 and have had excellent results. It’s extremely durable and will give you a very deep gloss.

As far as originality, there were no acrylic enamels when our cars were built. It was either lacquer or regular (synthol) enamel which are both inferior finishes from a durability standpoint. I wouldn’t worry about originality of the type of paint unless you are going to a concours event. Just use an original color.

A: Sanding and polishing the clearcoat will essentially level out the finish. The end result is that you will have a deeper mirror like shine. It is well worth the effort, but if I was going to spend that much, I most certainly would spend the extra on a urethane paint job. By the way, you can sand and polish the paint yourself. It doesn’t take any special talent other than patience, lots of water and a rubber sanding block along with some ultra fine grit paper (600 to 1000 grit). If you decide to do it yourself, go out and buy a book on painting cars that has pictures in it. That way, you’ll learn the tricks before you make a mistake on your fresh paint job. Heck, it’s worth the $30 to learn about paint jobs anyway. You’ll find that that if you bone up before you talk to your painter, you’ll probably get a better paint job at a better price.

In case you’re wondering, I’ve painted more cars than I care to admit…. and I continue to make my fair share of mistakes. Probably the single biggest problem for a newbie to auto painting is getting the surface prepared properly. In fact, when you look at paint jobs done at the chain body shops, the reason they look “average” is because very little time is put into preparation. A general rule of thumb is that if a cars surface looks imperfect before painting, it will look even worse after painting.

Sorry if I’m preaching to the choir, but as I said, I’ve made and continue to make my share of mistakes and they are very costly in time and money… So, before you spend any money, read a book on auto painting (and make sure it was printed within the last year as the finishes keep changing). Good luck!!

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Q: Plastic Part Paint Stripping

Does anyone have any advice for stripping paint off of plastic parts? I attempted to repaint my dash and let’s just say the first attempt didn’t go so well. Can I use off the shelf paint stripper?

A: Paint stripper is probably too strong. I have used brake fluid on plastic parts in the past. If you can soak it in it, its quick. Other wise, it takes a while.

A: My brother, a serious plastic model airplane hobbyist, gave me this tip for taking paint off plastic. He said to use Westley’s Bleche-White whitewall/blackwall tire cleaner. You can get this stuff at almost any auto parts store.

Here’s my testimony: My painter got overspray on my turn signal lenses and on the rubber moldings along the rails for my convertible top. Naturally I was sick when I saw the paint on the turn signal lenses (have you priced 1968 lenses lately?). Anyway….I soaked the parts in the Bleche-White for 24 hours. ALL the paint came off, even the silver paint which is applied by the factory on the lenses. I used an old tooth brush to get the paint out of the various nooks and crannies of the part. The paint came off the rubber pieces just as well. The Bleche-White had absolutely no ill effects on the plastic or rubber parts. I wore rubber gloves when handling the parts in the solution as it is caustic to skin.

Oh yeah, I masked off my turn signal lenses and painted them with the same silver that’s used on Rally II wheels. They look brand spanking new!

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Q: Plastic Part Painting

How do you paint plastic pieces? Do I have to strip it first then prime then spray with semi gloss black? What name products should I use? I figure on using spray cans but if that is a bad idea I probably could get a friend to spray it. I need a detailed list of supplies I need and good directions to use.

A: Painting plastic parts takes a different approach than other stuff. There are special primers,and paints for each type of plastic. First remove all wax and or armoral all with strong degreaser/cleaner. Then wipe down with cheap lacquer thinner a couple of times. This will soften the plastic and make the paint “bite” into the plastic. You can then use the appropriate plastic paint. Spray cans are available from SEM, Mar Hyde, FabriColor, etc. made for hard plastic not just vinyl. This will work much better than ordinary paint and wont flake or peel off.

A: Don’t forget to make sure you use a LINT FREE cloth for wipping. The softened plastic will want to grab the lint off the cloth, making a real mess.

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Q: POR-15 Application

Can anyone tell me more about POR-15? Is it black, clear? Can it be painted over?

A: I used POR-15 on the undercarriage, firewall and frame of my car. It is not as simple as they make it sound to use but is worth it. You must thoroughly clean the surface. Do not use any petroleum based solvent (laquor thinner) because the POR 15 wont stick. The surface must be completely oil free but can have solid rust. Use a metal etcher on all bare metal and scuff any remaining paint. You can brush or spray the finish. If you spray tape off everything within 10 feet because over spray will stick forever!! I have heard that it is difficult to get brush marks to flow on highly visible surfaces. You must recoat in about 4 hours or when the finish is dry but tacky. I did find some problems.

1. You can not remove POR 15 once it is dry

2. You must recoat when it is ready-not when you are.

3. It burns when it gets in your eyes.

4. I had a problem with the gloss consistency when the finish dried. I have heard that is a typic

Hope that this helps

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Q: Pulley Color

I am about to paint the pulleys and power steering pump on my 68. Can some tell me what color to paint them. Were they glossy black or satin black? Are the brackets the same gloss as the pump and pulleys? How about the Harmonic Dampner? Was it blue or black?

A: Balancer is engine color. Pulleys ,P/S pump, brackets,air cleaner are gloss black.

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Q: Special-1

My body tag for my 1968 Firebird has ‘special-1’ listed where the paint code should be. What does this mean.

A: This code indicated a Custom Factory Paint was used to paint the car. Pink Mist, Carnival Red, Marigold Yellow, and Windward Blue are some examples offered on the 1968 Firebird series. The 1 indicates the car had a ivory vinyl top if a coupe or a ivory-white convertible top.

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Q: Two-tone Paint

Where does the two tone split the colors?

A: Two-tone cars look just like vinyl top cars, minus the vinyl. They paint the roof one color, and the rest of the car the other color. The stainless vinyl top moldings are used for the color break. On the firewall dataplate, both colors are listed. If you’ve ever noticed a single color non-vinyl top car, the paint code is stamped twice, meaning upper and lower color, and vinyl top cars have the vinyl top code at the PNT designation.

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Q: Under Body Color

Do cars come black underneath, or painted? All my vehicles are body color underneath, w/ stuff bolted to it. Under the body paint there is black paint followed by bare metal. Why would they take the time to mask it and paint it black, when there’s someone under there w/ body color already in the gun.

A: The body shells were painted before assembly, and the overspray was so heavy you would believe they intended to paint the whole bottom. Maybe some were heavier than others, but all I have seen were still only covered enough to be considered overspray. As you rub on it with steel wool or 400 wet sandpaper, you will see it comes off like overspray even though the color is fairly vivid, leaving the solidly applied black.

A: theres a more logical explanation to all of this. OVERSPRAY. It is red because your car was red. It wont have the same gloss,color or texture as the upper body parts because it was never intended to be painted body color. Overspray will be evident even upwards into the transmission tunnel altho it probably wont reach the middle of it. I have a Meridian turquoise and 2 solar red 68s that have the same overspray patterns on the underside. The meridian turquoise one was Ziebarted (Paraffin based under coating that looks like beeswax) when new, which perfectly preserved the whole under side of the car. There is no evidence of any red primer on any 68s Ive ever had or worked on. Look under the gas tank as this is usually shielded from most of the harsh elements. You will find the same red overspray there.

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Q: Using POR-15

I’m considering doing the front rails and vaious suspension bits. How did you prep. the parts ?? Sandblast ?? Did you use the POR topcoat or just the rust-preventer ??

A: The POR-15 vendor I deal with strongly suggests sand or bead blasting items in preparation for painting for the smoothest finish, and best adhesion. If you do media blast, then the metal prep is not required. I’ve also wire brushed or sanded a number of parts or surfaces that weren’t practical to blast. For those items, I did use the metal prep to etch the metal, and to further kill/stop any rust.

I have found that if the POR-15 paint is used as a top coat, it will discolor if exposed to UV light. Most parts under the car are not a problem, but parts of my subrame are showing the dulling/discolorization now. This shouldn’t apply to their Chassis Black paint. But I’ve found that this paint must be sprayed on. My experience using a brush was less than great.

As for brush marks, this is a problem. Using a foam brush cuts this down, but the brush has a tendency to fall apart eventually. For parts that I want a very smooth finish, I coat with POR-15 (two coats), then dust with a primer. Once the POR-15 has cured, I then do at least another coat of primer, then spray a top coat of the final cover using an enamel or other paint of choice. This usually covers the imperfections left by the POR-15, and prevents the UV discolorization.

Prior to getting my car painted, I removed the subframe, cleaned and prepped it, and painted (using a brush) it with POR-15. It came out quite nice, and then I bolted it back on and sent the car to the body shop. When it came back, the subframe was covered with sanding debris and overspray from the bodywork process. I had to sand that off and coat again with POR-15 to get it smooth again. The Catch 22 there was that since the new front sheet metal was bolted on the car at the body shop, the only time to prep the subframe was before the body work. I think that I should have pressed the shop to take greater care in protecting the subframe. Now I know better.

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Q: Plating Parts

What parts can be plated?

A: Parts that can be done are black oxide, black phosphate, gray phosphate, tin plating,to some degree white(silver) cad. Contact Carolina Chemco at 864.246.3836 for more info and to order stuff. Also Eastwood carries some stuff alto rather high in price.

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