Find answers to Frequently Asked Questions for First Generation Firebirds that have been asked and answered on FGF. Special thanks needs to be given to all the FGF members who took the time to respond to other member's questions.
Body - Vinyl Roof and Trim Moldings
Q: Vinyl Top Removal
I have a 1968 FB 400. It was originally green with a black vinyl top. Its now white with white top. Does anyone know whether I can remove the vinyl top and repaint as a hard top. I want black with purple glitter.
A: You can remove the top and repaint but youre probably going to be disappointed when you do . Every one I ve taken off has had some sort of problem hiding under neath. the factory didnt do a very good job of body work or paint under when they knew a vinyl top was going on it. hence youll find lousy lead joints at the top of quarters and maybe even some rust you didnt know you had. I retired my first 1968 that ive had since 1970 due to severe rust under the top. Its in the back forty and I looked the other day and it looked like it had T-Tops.I am currently restoring 2 other vinyl top cars ,a 1968 which was painted over and Im putting the top back on, and a 1969 that is being painted. My advise is this. If you take the top off for good then WELD the holes closed and use no bondo. The tits that hold trim on can be hacksawed off and carefully ground smooth . use a mininum amount of heat and cool carefully or youll warp the panels. take the whole top area down to bare metal and metal prep , then use a good urethane or epoxy primer. Good luck
A: Anything you do to deviate from stock is going to dramatically decrease the value of your bird. If you are concerned with resale, restore it. If you are going to be buried in it go balls out and paint the whole thing black with purple glitter, and put a 455 in it.
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Content last modified: January 8, 2014 at 7:22 am
Q: Vinyl Top Replacement
I stripped off the vinyl off my 1968 and,after getting it down to bare metal,was wondering:
1- whats the best undercoat? I was thinking along the lines of a rust inhibitor topped off with rust-oleum.
2-whats the adhesive of choice?
A: When I worked at the GM plant in Fremont in the 70’s, cars that were to get vinyl tops got the same rust preventative (i.e. tank dunk!), primer and paint on the roof as the rest of the body. The difference was the weld seam joining the quarter panel to the roof. Cars that did not get vinyl tops had this seam filled with lead solder. I know because I was the guy who would grind the solder smooth (that job was great for you long term health – not!). Cars with vinyl tops had the seam filled with a bondo like product, after the area was painted. My father, who opened the Fremont plant in ’62, said they did it this way ever since they started putting vinyl tops on cars there.
A: In this game never say two words: never and always…. Ive got 2 vinyl top cars in my garage right now, both have been stripped to bare metal and both HAD body solder at the 1/4s and at the front pillars. I seriously doubt that these are the only ones that factory did this to. Ive had other vinyl top cars and all that I can remember had body solder in all joints. What is apparent is the lack of detail on finishing any body solder under the top.
A: I worked in a body shop for awhile and talked to the owner about this very subject due to the fact that my 1968 had a vinyl top. he said they were bare metal at the factory when the tops were put on,if you put too much stuff up there the top may come off.I would just use eastwoods coroless primer under the top,this will give you great rust protection and should not cause problems.be sure to scuff the primer alittle(just alittle,do not go through it…lol).this guy does resto work and insurance work,when I was there he had a 65 GTO conv. body hanging on the wall!!!! it was going through a frame off resto,I was in heaven….lol I did not work on that car,but did work on a 1969 camaro and a 57 chevy that already had pictures taken and was going to be in hot rod when done,don’t know if it ever was,but I would like to see it finished. well,hope this helps out.
Any proposed updates, changes, pictures, and/or corrections, please use our comment section below (may need to click on permalink to access comments feature). Information is subject to change and offered as is without any warranties or guarantees. Please review our Term's Of Use for more information.
Content last modified: January 8, 2014 at 7:23 am
Q: Vinyl Top Replacement
I stripped off the vinyl off my 1968 and,after getting it down to bare metal,was wondering-
1- whats the best undercoat? I was thinking along the lines of a rust inhibitor topped off with rust-oleum.
2-whats the adhesive of choice?
A: When I worked at the GM plant in Fremont in the 70’s, cars that were to get vinyl tops got the same rust preventative (i.e. tank dunk!), primer and paint on the roof as the rest of the body. The difference was the weld seam joining the quarter panel to the roof. Cars that did not get vinyl tops had this seam filled with lead solder. I know because I was the guy who would grind the solder smooth (that job was great for you long term health – not!). Cars with vinyl tops had the seam filled with a bondo like product, after the area was painted. My father, who opened the Fremont plant in ’62, said they did it this way ever since they started putting vinyl tops on cars there.
A: In this game never say two words: never and always…. Ive got 2 vinyl top cars in my garage right now, both have been stripped to bare metal and both HAD body solder at the 1/4s and at the front pillars. I seriously doubt that these are the only ones that factory did this to. Ive had other vinyl top cars and all that I can remember had body solder in all joints. What is apparent is the lack of detail on finishing any body solder under the top.
A: I worked in a body shop for awhile and talked to the owner about this very subject due to the fact that my 1968 had a vinyl top. he said they were bare metal at the factory when the tops were put on,if you put too much stuff up there the top may come off.I would just use eastwoods coroless primer under the top,this will give you great rust protection and should not cause problems.be sure to scuff the primer alittle(just alittle,do not go through it…lol).this guy does resto work and insurance work,when I was there he had a 65 GTO conv. body hanging on the wall!!!! it was going through a frame off resto,I was in heaven….lol I did not work on that car,but did work on a 1969 camaro and a 57 chevy that already had pictures taken and was going to be in hot rod when done,don’t know if it ever was,but I would like to see it finished. well,hope this helps out.
Any proposed updates, changes, pictures, and/or corrections, please use our comment section below (may need to click on permalink to access comments feature). Information is subject to change and offered as is without any warranties or guarantees. Please review our Term's Of Use for more information.
Content last modified: January 8, 2014 at 7:39 am
Q: Vinyl Top Installation at Factory
Just a note about the Vinyl Top removal. It was mentioned earlier this year that a lot of the time cars got Vinyl tops due to welding problems or other flaws in the roof. Also, if they knew the car was getting the top, they would not do as good of a job.
A: No, the vinyl top was a scheduled option. The reason for this was special studs were welded to the body that hold the moldings trim that goes around the vinyl. These are the same studs you would find around the windshield and rear window frame that hold the window molding in place. As the car passed us we would lower a jig that clamped to the roof that had guides to insert the stud welding gun. There were several different types of jigs depending if the car had a full vinyl top, Landau top, etc. The jig did not guide the studs around the window frames however. These we installed free hand and you tell this because the studs are not evenly spaced nor was the distance from the edge of the flat surface of the roof.
If a vinyl top was added after passing through the body shop, it was done at the dealer. There was no facility to add it at the factory.
The solder and grind procedure used on cars without vinyl tops was an art that took a significant amount of time for a worker to develop (I know, I did this job too). If you run your hand across the joint between the upper quarter panel and roof seam, you may feel a wave and notice small grind marks next to the window drip rail. You may also notice a build up of lead solder around the end of the drip rail. The same is true for the front window posts. This is the trademark of a new worker who did get much training. Training was on-the-job and there weren’t extra cars to practice on, so you just did the best job you could. As the car progressed through the body shop, inspectors would look at the grind job. If it was really bad, they would have people called “metal finishers” touch up the solder joints as it passed finial inspection point. The metal finishers also touched up any other body flaws the inspectors caught.
A: When I worked at the GM Fremont, CA. plant I worked in the body shop where the car’s shell was welded together. For cars that didn’t get a vinyl top, we filled and grinded smooth the weld joint between the top of the quarter panel and roof. The windshield post joint was also soldered.
The cars that got a vinyl top had filler similar to bondo put in. Why this was done I don’t know but was probably related to cost. I’m mentioning this for those who are planing on permanently removing the vinyl top. You’ll be faced with re-doing this seam.
I have 2 orginal vinyl top cars here ,a 1968 and 1969 and both have body solder at the pillars and the sail panels. However they didnt have the rain gutter filled with seam sealer. I did have alot of work to the 1969 at the upper 1/4 seams to fix the poor body work as the vinyl isnt going back on it.
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Content last modified: January 8, 2014 at 7:41 am
Q: Vinyl Top Restoration for Faded Material
I need advice from those of you with vinyl roofs. Mine is in excellant shape, just a tad faded. I was wondering what anybody has come up with, or uses, to get the”black” back and protect the vinyl. I checked the owners page and have seen some really nice tops. Just want to get that “New” look again. Thanks
A: SEM makes an unbelievable vinyl and leather dye. I got some from my local auto body supply house to dye a pair of boots and it worked great. I did them sometime ago and none of the dye has faded or flaked off. After that experience, I used some of it on some vinyl headrests in my van. Worked great there as well. I’m not sure how well it stands up to weather but I would suspect pretty good. Even if it starts to fade you could re-do it pretty easily. I believe it was less than $20 for a pint which should be more than enough to do a top a couple of times. it is pretty easy to apply as well. Clean the surface, rough it up with a Scotchbrite pad, clean with alcohol, apply product with a foam brush (I believe in 3 coats). The label recommended several (more expensive) SEM cleaner products but the guy at my shop said just use a wax and grease remover to clean it followed by alcohol to open up the pores – it worked great for me. It came out very smooth with the brush but I’m sure you could use it in a gun if you prefer.
A: Why not try black vinyl dye? I wouldn’t use the $3 type you buy in a spray but the professional type. Check with your local automotive interior installer and ask him what he would use. Get several opinions before you spend $$$.
A: there are several good vinyl restorer products avaliable but try this one for replenishiment of vinyl products…… Baby oil or Vasoline. It puts the oil back into the vinyl that the sun and years of aging took out. leave it on for awhile and buff off the excess. also works on tires
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Content last modified: January 8, 2014 at 7:42 am
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