thanks guy's the theory is kinda what i figured as well, just unsure about geometry issues, i also saw a guy on a first gen camaro site useing a longer idler arm than the pittman arm but that did screw up the geometry( 1 inch differance from the right side to the left on the crosslink) my car will have headers anyway, and if clearance issues arise , i'l torch em to fit . anyone used global west's tubeular controll arms?? i bought them and they fit and look awesome!! ( but my sub frame is at home and the rest at the body shop)