I did come across some other interesting tidbits. The first dealer bulletin announcing the T/A showed that it was to have the same Ram Air induction package as the Ram Air III, rather than the T/A hood which was eventually released on it. Is there a prototype out there with standard Ram Air hood?
*HERE'S A ARTICLE ABOUT A 1969 FIREBIRD PROTOTYPE CAR THAT SOUNDS LIKE THAT ONE. BUT FOR SOME REASON THEIR LINK IS DEAD. YOU MAY HAVE TO CONTACT CLASSICAL PONTIAC TO GET INFO.
THE CAR HAD A RAM AIR HOOD,455 HO,WITH A STOCK TRANS AM SPOILER.
Classical Pontiac Trunk Article: The 1969 Firebird 455 H.O.
Case in point is the first Pontiac 455 H.O. engine, installed in a prototype 1969 Firebird. As we all know, the Pontiac 455 was available in ... www.classicalpontiac.com/trunk/stories/2.html
I'll just start another topic about it, that way everyone can get in on it & also (hopefully) get to the bottom of the original subject on this one. As I said, gotta dig through tons of papers to find it, but I do have it.
Forgive me if this is already covered, known or irrelevant but I found this Camaro decode info over on the CRG site and thought it might be of possible value. http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#CowlTag
On 69 Camaros, only year, D80 on the cowl tag means trunk spoiler. Some 69 Camaros did have a factory trunk spoiler even without the D80 on the tag. It depends on the plant and what time of year they were produced. 1st generation Camaros depend heavily on the cowl tag for documentation because they do not have a PHS style documentation service. Our cowl tags, especially 68 and 69, are just a curiosity because of PHS. They have little or no weight in the documentation world. About the only use is to give you a hint at whether you should get a PHS or for a simple exterior color and interior trim/color check. Any code on a Firebird cowl tag should be qualified with a PHS.
I did come across some other interesting tidbits. The first dealer bulletin announcing the T/A showed that it was to have the same Ram Air induction package as the Ram Air III, rather than the T/A hood which was eventually released on it. Is there a prototype out there with standard Ram Air hood?
*HERE'S A ARTICLE ABOUT A 1969 FIREBIRD PROTOTYPE CAR THAT SOUNDS LIKE THAT ONE. BUT FOR SOME REASON THEIR LINK IS DEAD. YOU MAY HAVE TO CONTACT CLASSICAL PONTIAC TO GET INFO.
THE CAR HAD A RAM AIR HOOD,455 HO,WITH A STOCK TRANS AM SPOILER.
Classical Pontiac Trunk Article: The 1969 Firebird 455 H.O.
Case in point is the first Pontiac 455 H.O. engine, installed in a prototype 1969 Firebird. As we all know, the Pontiac 455 was available in ... www.classicalpontiac.com/trunk/stories/2.html
i have been told they experimented with the 455 in the 69 firebirds but scrapped the idea cause the torque tended to twist the car like a corkscrew.i can't prove what i am saying.just something i have been told by a few experts.or so called experts.it makes sense to me,the fgf cant handle the 455
Here's some interesting 'fuel for the fire' on that; The tags above are both 50 50 code cars with an added AEE. The link from eBay on the other thread has a tag that reads; ST 69 22337 NOR713724 BDY
TR 207 55 E PNT
10D AEE
You see that it has code 55 E. Which is crystal turquoise with a parchment vinyl top. Then it also has the AEE. This doesn't stay consistent with the special order white vinyl top theory(why both codes). Unless anyone has a further explanation?
The car that I provided the link to in the other post seems to contradict that theory. It's a 55-E car with AEE. Crystal Turquoise with Parchment. Do T/A with AEE have a vinyl color? Those shown are 50-50 with no vinyl color.
Last edited by Yellowbird; 08/17/0701:48 PM.
Vikki
1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
Documented trunk spoiler is D80 but absence does not guarantee that the car was not so equipped.
Documented on a 69 Firebird with a PHS? And, the way you worded the above description about the tail spoiler holds exactly true on 69 Camaros. Some had the tail spoiler from the factory but not all that had it from the factory had D80 on the tag.
Since our two cars cover most of the options that you could get on a 69 and our trim tags have no AEE that would narrow the search quite a bit. Especially since ours cars came from the same time frame and same plant as the AEE did.
Hey, I'm wrong very often. Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. If you aren't wrong then you aren't voicing your opinion... You will never find out how wrong you are until you voice your opinion and you are wrong. You need to be wrong to ever get it right.
Sorry that I missed this thread. Hopefully I can add something to this topic.
Starting a new tag thread might be a good idea since this tag info is getting buried in this spoiler thread.
AEE - I believe this is the Firebird form of exterior style trim.
LOS, LOR, and NOR tags all are stamped in slightly different formats. Info about one plant's tags can not necessarily be applied to another plant's.
I have a 5500+ tag pics. I've never seen any other extra codes on the LOS tags or the LOR tags, except for this one LOR D80 tag. I would like to research that data posted on the other site showing D80 stamped on other tags.
Lastly, Dave (69T/A) made an slanderous error up in his post on 8/9.
Quote:
That info was given to me from A Camaro Research Group. Because my vin is #381. But they didnt want to tell me that the other car with 380 vin was the 7th 1969 trans am convertible they are researching.
Yes, I was in contact with Dave trying to help him with his tag. He never provided the VIN to me and I was never researching any T/A. No less his VIN is LOR VIN, the convertible T/A is a NOR car. It doesn't matter how close the VIN's are, they came from different plants, three months apart! I'm not sure who he is confusing me with, but that wasn't me.
He did post the PHS docs for the car on PY (thread was deleted ). To answer the question, no, D80 is not called out on the docs.
Sorry that I missed this thread. Hopefully I can add something to this topic.
Starting a new tag thread might be a good idea since this tag info is getting buried in this spoiler thread.
AEE - I believe this is the Firebird form of exterior style trim.
LOS, LOR, and NOR tags all are stamped in slightly different formats. Info about one plant's tags can not necessarily be applied to another plant's.
I have a 5500+ tag pics. I've never seen any other extra codes on the LOS tags or the LOR tags, except for this one LOR D80 tag. I would like to research that data posted on the other site showing D80 stamped on other tags.
Lastly, Dave (1969T/A) made an slanderous error up in his post on 8/9.
Quote:
That info was given to me from A Camaro Research Group. Because my vin is #381. But they didnt want to tell me that the other car with 380 vin was the 7th 1969 trans am convertible they are researching.
Yes, I was in contact with Dave trying to help him with his tag. He never provided the VIN to me and I was never researching any T/A. No less his VIN is LOR VIN, the convertible T/A is a NOR car. It doesn't matter how close the VIN's are, they came from different plants, three months apart! I'm not sure who he is confusing me with, but that wasn't me.
He did post the PHS docs for the car on PY (thread was deleted ). To answer the question, no, D80 is not called out on the docs.
Thanks Kurt. Dave Rau(69TA)(Pontiac10th)(????more)Dave's 'disinformation' has made researching the D80 subject even harder. I tried to make 'heads or tails' of it years ago but with all the stumbling blocks thrown in the way by Dave himself you have to come to the conclusion that true research wasn't his goal.
Having not seen any documentation to support the idea that those additional characters are "the equivalent of a date stamp", I think they are still part of the mystery. There was enough scheduling info on the broadcast sheets to accompany the car through manufacture. Stamping info onto a cowl tag is permanent, and seems an unlikely action for temporary information.
Vikki
1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
Having not seen any documentation to support the idea that those additional characters are "the equivalent of a date stamp", I think they are still part of the mystery. There was enough scheduling info on the broadcast sheets to accompany the car through manufacture.
Ahhh I thought you saw the back up for the date stamp information. I didn't post it because I thought it would be redundant because I already posted it.
Here's Kurt's information on the additional LOS codes; LOS - Fisher Body body scheduling code The LOS (Los Angeles/Van Nuys) body scheduling code is a letter followed by one to three digits, e.g., F103. Based on data analysis only (there is no GM documentation yet available that describes this code) - but with consistent application to thousands of datapoints - CRG believes the code was used by LOS Fisher Body (and other plants that built multiple carlines) to aid in scheduling the body build order.
The letter indicates the approximate production day of the month for the start of the assembly of each vehicle body. It began with letter "A" on the first day of the month of the Fisher production calendar, incremented at the start of each additional production day to the next alphabetic letter, and was reset to letter "A" at the start of the next production month. (Note that the Fisher production calendar is known to differ slightly from the calendar month, and we also do not yet know exactly how the Fisher production calendar related to the Chevrolet monthly production reporting calendar.)
The one-to-three digit sequence number that follows the letter was reset to 1 at the start of each production day and was incremented serially with each body built by the factory as the day progressed. Data analysis indicates that the sequence number at the LOS plant was assigned regardless of model or body type. By this we mean that Camaros and full-size passenger cars both incremented the same sequence counter. The unit counter was reset to 1 the next day as the day-of-the-month code letter incremented to the next letter. In the example, F103 would indicate the sixth day of production for a given month and the 103rd body started on that sixth day of production.