Can anyone tell me how they set up thier Pertronix Ignitor II set up if they did this at all. Did they ground the module black to the vehicle or to the coil, etc. Theres only two wires and I'm racking my brain.

I have this setup. I installed mine last winter. The ground on mine goes to the coil. The only problem I had was setting the gap. Initially I had too much, then I did not have enough. Once I got it right, the thing has been flawless ever since.

I followed their instructions to the letter and other than the gap issue it went quite easily. I did also call them at one point as it seemed there was a rev limiter effect going on. I left a V-mail and someone actually called me back after hours no less. It turned out to be my timing was off.

Do they have installation instructions online? Most companies do these days.

Robert

I've been running the Ignitor II for 3 years. Red goes to full 12v ignition switched power source, black to coil negative. I can post the installation sheet if needed.

QUOTE: Red goes to full 12v

This seems a little confusing at face value. It's either full voltage from alternator(12v+) or resisted to 12v by wire or external resistor. "Full 12v" could be leading to wrong thinking.... All ignition systems use at least 12 volts, none are less(that I know of) some use more.

Meaning that the wire providing the power needs to be a regular (16 gauge at least) wire, not a resistor wire or with an external resistor, that is directly from the fuse box, not shared with anything else and is controlled by the ignition so the engine will shut off when the key is turned to the off position.

Full voltage(provided by alt.) as compared with resisted to 12v. This is very important because ignitions that are designed for 12 volt only will be damaged by more voltage(provided by alt.). And ignition systems like HEI(and Ignitor II, no expert on these but TOHCan makes it clear) thrive on more than 12 volts. The more volts you can give them the better they work.

I am presuming that this is a "normal" Firebird, with Pertronix being installed as a points replacement, and with a functioning voltage regulator. Nominal system voltage is 12v per manufacturer spec. This does not need further analysis or interpretation.

Points systems, and many points coils, do NOT use or see full 12 volts, 9 or 10 volts is more common due to resistor wire or ballast. So when installing an aftermarket ignition, be sure to check the coil ratings as well.

If someone has the originl instructions sheets I would appreciate a copy, either by fax (562-696-8331) or e-mail (crail@brenntag.com).

on the way.

To address my earlier "further need for analysis or interpretation" and your opinion that it wasn't needed;

I'm sure you meant full volts from alternator but you said full 12v which is correct if the alternator is not turning. Once the alternator is turning the electric system supplied voltage is certainly more than 12 volts... In saying full 12v, an uninformed reader may not catch the mistake and may get a mistaken idea of what is really going on with the voltage. In the past postings on this board many posts have made it clear that some do not realized that the electrical system provides more than 12 volts when the alternator is turning. If the electrical system only produced a full 12v as was stated there wouldn't have been a need for any resistance at all in any of the ignition systems. This is very important concerning functionality of different ignition systems.

Crail, your email bounced. Check the address posted?

Jim, you are wrong in your assumption. Points burn out rapidly at 12 volts. The voltage to the points is reduced by the use of a ballast resistor or resistor wire in conjunction with a coil designed for use with a resistor ignition. Typical measurements are 9 - 10 volts or less at the coil or points.

12 volts are required for HEI and most electrical systems. Higher primary voltage up to and including the specified alternator output is acceptable. But when starting, the battery delivers a NOMINAL 12 volts and that is what all the electrical components are rated at, even though in-service voltages are slightly higher as is required for charging.

Nope. Not an assumption. Points like a steady 12 volts. I used this fact in my daily driver from 1983 to 1986. Not a single set of points burned.... Your assumption that they burn at 12 volts is wrong. It's the spikes above 12 volts that burn points. It's a proven fact, not an assumption.

How did you provide 12 volts to your points? How was your system wired?

1980 Camper Special Heavy Duty GMC that I swapped in a big block with points distributor. The truck had dual batteries. I used one of the batteries just for the ignition. Made sure it was disconnected from the charging system. Once a week(or so) I swapped the batteries to keep them both charged. After three years of trouble free driving, back and forth to work and picking up construction supplies, it was obvious that points like 12 volt batteries.

So...you bypassed the wiring harness completely and used a manual ignition switch? A coil's primary windings have a resistance value, and that value reduces the voltage to the points. Because you were running off of battery and bypassing the harness resistor, you probably had about the same voltage at the points that you would have if you had used the alternator-supplemented voltage with the harness resistance.

Resistor wire approx 1.3 ohms for Chevy. Coil primary resistance for Chevy 1.85 ohms. So by eliminating that 1.3 ohms that was on the 14.6 volt circuit (which was delivering about 10.8 volts to the coil and 5.8 volts to the points) you were delivering 6.8 volts to the points running directly off 12.6 volt battery (peak) through the coil. Still far less than 12 volts...

Numbers for Pontiac are similar.

Well of course I used a coil! How else are you going to get spark!! LOL All ignitions use a coil. You state the obvious.... My whole point from the beginning simply was that your statement "full 12v" when you speak of resistorless(resistor wire and ballast free) power to the ignition is essentially wrongheaded and without further explanation is deceptive to someone that is actually trying to learn something here. If you would have said "full power from alternator"(which is more than 12v), or something to that effect, then that would have been less confusing. And then when you say, QUOTE "This does not need further analysis or interpretation" you are wrong again. Definitely wrong again because no one has any right to say that their posts do not need "further analysis or interpretation". This is a tech forum and everything is up for "further analysis or interpretation". Of course, as usual.

This wasn't a thread about point voltage, either. It was where to hook up an Ignitor II, which I answered, you obfuscated, and I clarified.

I quoted the installation manual for the product. If you don't like it, take it up with Pertronix, and try to tell them you know ignition systems better than they do.

I never said anything about you not using a coil. I merely showed that your "12 volt ignition" did not actually deliver the 12 volts to the points that you claim. If you put 12 volts to the points, such as with an electronic ignition coil, they will wear out very quickly.

What you did on your truck was the same as what the "start" wire bypass does on '67 and '68 Firebirds. It provides a higher voltage to the points for easier startup. If it did not have a negative side effect I'm sure that GM would not have gone through the trouble and expense of adding resistor wire to the harness.

Pertronix Igniter II takes more than 12 volts to coil. That's a fact and my point. Not just full 12v, more than 12v.

And you are using a purely samantics debate when you focus on me saying 'to points'. Although there may be a few readers that would see this as literal, most would know that all ignitions get powered through the coil. And all of my posts are open to interpretation and/or clarification. With that in mind, I appreciate your clarification that I was not supplying 12v to points but really to the coil.

Clarified to the last drop.

Crail, did you get your email yet?

Yes, thank you very much!

You're welcome.

The original Ignitor required removing the calibrated resistance wire from the bulkhead connector and replacing it with a regular wire to provide 12 volts when the ignition is on. The Ignitor II does not need the full 12 volts. I've used both. I'm a fan of the Ignitor and the Ignitor II.

Actually the instructions for the Ignitor II do say thay you are to remove any resistor wire and or resistor block. I ran a brand new wire directly from the ignition switch right to the module just to be sure as this is what they recommended. Nonetheless the thing works great and sure beats points and messing with dwell etc. IMO...

If you remove the resisance it will actually have more than 12 volts to the ignition system. More than "full 12v", 12v+. It's the '+' that gives you better performance with hotter spark. Most performance ignition systems count on that '+'. The HEI likes more than 12v. Supercoils demand more than 12 volts....

Yes, Jim, but the accepted designation for voltage of the modern automobile is 12V! That's because it uses a 12 volt battery.

The battery needs a minimum of 13.8 volts for proper charging and most systems are regulated to 14.7 volts. However, the system is not known as a 13.8 v or 14.7 v system. It's a 12 volt system - not to be confused with one that uses a 16 volt battery (extra cells) that provides a larger discharge range for a battery only (no onboard charging) electrical system as found on some race cars.

The performance of most ignition systems drop off noticably below 11 volts - but obviously still work just fine to start the car while cranking! Cranking voltage commonly drops below 10 volts up here in the cold but we still manage.

If you want to proclaim the advantages of higher voltages for performance ignitions, start another thread. This one was for hooking up an Ignitor, and the installation instructions call for 12 volts - nominal! And that's what they'll find with a multi-meter when they are doing the hook-up with the ignition on and the engine off. Don't confuse things for people!

Of course I'm just trying to get it exactly right as usual. It helps in the long run when answering questions and when people search for answers. And what I find not completely valid in determining what voltage an ignition system is running is what a voltmeter reads before you try to start the engine. It's much more valid what it reads after you start to roll over the engine and after it's running(obviously). It's valid to point out that when you remove the resistor you have more than 12 volts to the ignition any time the alternator is turning. So 12v+ is more correct/acurate than full 12v(unless you haven't rolled the alt or you don't have a functioning alt.). 12 volts isn't nominal for HEI. It's usable but not nominal. Maybe 12v is nominal for the Pertronix, I'm not an expert on them(as stated earlier). Common sense would tell you that if 12v is nominal(and not more than 12v) then the Pertronix ignition system should be running a resistor to be nominal all the time.... That would be the only way it would be getting exactly 12v(to the coil ) all the time.

They've only been using the 12 volt designation for the last fifty years, maybe you should write to the engineers about this and see if they'll change it for you. It doesn't seem to cause much confusion for most people but there are some in every crowd.

Looks like you made into this centuries' thinking; YOUR QUOTE;13.8 volts for proper charging and most systems are regulated to 14.7 volts.
Why would you want others to think differently? 12 volt is only when they aren't running. I do understand that it's generally called a 12 volt system. When you get considering ignition systems a few extra volts can make all the difference. That's the only reason I want to be specific on this thread about voltage and ignitions. It is what deciding how to power your ignition is all about. That difference between 12 volts and 13.8 - 14.7 is very important...