This past weekend I was pumping high octane into the bird at my local Shell station, when suddenly I noticed a new shiny sticker on the pump. Turns out this sticker is on all their pumps:

"THE FUEL IN THIS PUMP IS MIXED WITH UP TO 15-20 PERCENT E85"

This may be old news to some of you, but to me it was a shock pumping this gas into my new engine! I always have trusted Shell gas. Now I'm thinking their new "cocktail mix" is bad for me and my bird. E85 has a terrible burn/combustion rate.

Everyone I've talked to says this is not good for our older blocks, even if rebuilt like mine.

Whats the truth here? If someone else has already covered this then please accept my apologies. I'll do a Search later.

I think the real danger is to rubber seals in your q-jet and fuel pump.

And I think your motor will make less power with the ethanol.

That does not make a lot of sense. E85 is already a mix of ethanol and gasoline (85% ethanol, thus E-85) Why mix a mixture with straight gasoline?

A lot of us in smog prone areas have had our gas be 90/10 for some time with the 10% being straight ethanol. It was a replacement for some additive called MTBE (something like that).

If the sign said up to 20% ethanol, then I would be much more concerned.

BTW, I read today that the wheels may fall off the enthanol bandwagon because the price of corn has gone up so much E85 can no longer compete with the price of gas. Even at $100 a barrel for oil.

The price of wheat has shot up to. That's due to farmers planting more corn. It would be a lot better if they invested in cellulosic ethanol (switchgrass, waste paper, sawdust...)

here's 'wikipedia':
'The use of pure E85 in standard gasoline car engines will void the manufacturer's warranty, may disrupt oxygenation control in fuel-injected cars, and may result in power loss. It may also interfere with proper operation of the catalytic converter.

E85 can also cause engine damage, since prolonged exposure to high concentrations of ethanol may corrode metal and rubber parts in older engines (pre-1995) designed primarily for gasoline. Post-1995 fuel-injected cars are designed to accept E10 fuel, and may be tolerant of higher concentrations of ethanol to varying degrees, usually up to at least 20%.

Another risk is that of water contamination, which can produce engine wear directly and through corrosive formic acid in the combustion process. Oil and acid neutralizer additives can counteract these risks. It may not be possible to continue the use of non-additive (ND) oils in older engines.'

It's darn near impossible to find anything but gas with 10% ethanol up here in MN.

I'm sure we are all dealing at some level with ethenol blended fuel. I'm not in favor of it, but don't have much choice.
I did change all my rubber fuel lines this winter while it is in the air. They weren't that old, but was the old type hose.
If YOUR rubber hoses have not been changed in the past 3 years, OR if they were replaced with standard fuel hose, I believe it would be valid to suggest you consider doing just that.

RATBASTERDS!
Mine ran best on Shell last year.

At least with Shell the fuel at every one of their stations is independantly tested to make sure it meets the octane level that they advertise(among other testing). There are only a few brands like this....

Well, I took a drive into Daytona last night as Bike Week is about to start. I stopped at a BP to fill up and sure enough there were brand new stickers on the pumps that stated 10-15%. I had already filled the tank before I even noticed the sticker. Mainly due to the fact that there were two good looking women sharing a very nice bike next to me...

There is one cool thing about ethanol. It has a higher octane rating than most unleaded gas.

But it's a 'false high'.... It fools the test.... It actually gives you less octane than a similar rated non ethanol fuel.

Less BTU's per equal volume.

But it's the rating on the pump that counts. If they mix E85 with 87 Unleaded and end up at 91, you still have 91.

And higher levels of ethanol requires a richer air/fuel ratio. I wish they wouldn't start messing around with multiple mixtures.

Hmmm, I find my 07 F150 runs smoothest on Shell 91...I have yet to see any stickers here, but that does not mean it isn't there...

I fill my bird up at Chevron, with 94, then give er a swig of boost. seems to work well.

This has been around for years. I remember when I was in Texas in the earily 80's they had Gasahol, was a mix of gas and alcohol,not sure which one (methanol or ethanol)

E 85 is nothing new to oregon. we have 101 octane E 85. the only problem is it will eat up seals if you don't change them. mixed gas with ethenol in oregon has been around since the late 70s. i have been driving birds since then and had no problems. if you race, those cars use alcohol. its nothing new just different. the key is to make the most horse power with what you get from the pump. you better get use to it. the world of regular is gone and alternative is coming.

68 400 ho 4spd to go

MTBE was the replacement for tetraethyl lead. Ethanol is now the replacement for MTBE which was showing up in water supplies and food.

I believe the higher octane achieved by E85 is due to the lower air fuel ratio and subsequent chamber cooling by the larger volume of fuel.

One tank can eat some types of older rubber.

Alcohol can also ruin foam carb floats. It's time to convert to brass floats for any cars running pump gas.

Thanks for the input folks. Would it make any sense to start using a bottle of octane booster in every full tank?

If you hear any spark knock, it would be a good idea. Or if you notice a performance loss it might help. With your recently built to run on pump gas engine, you might be less susceptible to the troubles with the new fuels.

Or a gallon of Toulene.. -Or Helicopter fuel(I guess it's called aviation fuel).. -isn't that stuff 110-120 octane?

As I fly occasionally (single eng. fixed wing pleasure) I often bring a jerry can to the club and fill it up with 45 gal of aviation fuel...Don't run it straight tho, as it has different additives in it than automtive fuels.
Usually tho, I just keep a bottle of octane boost in the trunk, and give it a shot with each fill..never had a hint of a knock.

I carry lead and toluene everywhere I go! I was told the toluene is 114 octane. I mix it at a 1:10 ratio (1 part toluene to 10 parts pump gas. Lead goes in first, ratio depends on what the pump is dispensing. Been doing it a while now and all looks fine. Just did take the spark plugs out for winter maint and they look marvelous.

Man, don't tell the EPA about that!!!

I hope I just didn't.
I just use it off road anyway. You know, 4-wheelin' and stuff.

Riiiight

Ahh!!
-Nothing better than 'cooking' one's own 'soup'....

What about paint thinner?? -It used to contain toulene, also..

You get toluene in the paint thinner department at the hardware store, but it is expensive that way. (as much as $20.00 per gallon) I get it in 5 gallon pails at Sherwin-Williams paint store here in town, and it runs under $8.00 per gallon.

Check this out: The same Shell gas station has new stickers this weekend on all their pumps, now says "up to 10% Ethanol". Down from "15-20" just a week or two ago.

Hmmmm?

probably had wrong stickers..."up to 10% " is what they say here

I agree - probably the wrong decals.

Or the mexicans are severely limiting their prodcution of corn

The earlier sticker were new shiny BLUE. The new ones are new shiny GREY!