Hi all

On my 69 firebird conv. the turn signal decided not to work anymore. Bad as we have a nice US Car Meeting coming up next sunday.
The emerg flash works but not the turn signal. Lights etc. everything o.k.

Do you think it is the relays?
Where are the relays placed for the turn signal and the emergency flash?

Thanks a lot for help and greetings from Switzerland.

US CAR's rocks.

The flasher unit also works for the emergency flashers so it's not that. Most likely it's the switch in the column. And it's great to hear from our Swiss friend!

There are two separate flasher units for hazard and turn signal. The turn signal flasher can be swapped for the hazard flasher for testing.

The turn signal flasher is mounted to the fuse block. The hazard flasher is just left of the ashtray, just above the lower lip of the dash.

OOOPS! I stand corrected.

You guys are just great! Thanks a lot. I will check that in the next days.

Best regards,

Oliver

btw: how do I get a picture in my signature?

Signature picture; If you use a picture host like www.photobucket.com it's easy. Just paste the picture code in your signature box. You can also use photobucket to shrink the picture down to the size most of us have in the sigs...

Seems it works, thanks Jim.

Yes! It did work quite nicely. Sweet 'Bird!

Coffee break Jim. Yea the flasher unit for the turn signal is under the the dash, left of the steering column. The bracket for the flasher shares the fastener for the courtesy lamp, if I'm not mistaken.

Tom, I stand corrected too! I've been under the dashes of 3 '68s so much I am forgetting what my '69 looks like.

I was positive there were two flashers as my '69 only had one working when I got it, but I did forget the location.

The flasher in the fuse block is for the hazards

I, also, have spent too long of a time poking around the car. I'm not big on electric, but I think that most cars of that era and newer have a seperate flasher. And it would probabaly be because flashers are always hot, where blinkers are ignition hot.

Having been through the dash of both mine a total of seven times, I've gotten quite familiar with the '69. I imagine the '67-8 have minor differences.

I have a similar problem.

Headlights, tail lights, running lights, courtesy lights and hazards all work.

Turn on left or right turn signals and both sides flash at the same time.

Have swapped both flasher around and also bought a new one to no avail.

Anybody know what is going on?

bad ground. use a jumper wire at the column, then at the dash ground, then at the front lamp housings, then the rear taillamp housings. Make sure you have a good ground by using an ohmmeter.

I also had one bad Chinese lamp that had a single strand of wire bridging the lamp terminals. It always lit bright, and wouldn't flash properly.

That confuses me a bit. If it was a bad ground, wouldn't they not work at all?

Not necessarily.

Have your parking lights on and ask someone to press and hold the brake pedal. Watch both front and rear. Front lamps should not change in intensity (very brief flicker okay), rear lamps should all go bright.

An ungrounded bulb or socket will often go out during this test.

Thanks for the tips Vikki.

After looking again this morning, the front turn signal lights do not light up with the running lights on, but do with the flashers and both flash when the turn signal switch is in either position.

Both housings are brand new, wiring harness is new, fasteners are new. Using j-clips to attache the housing to the car. Could this be causing a ground isolation? If so, any suggestions for getting a better ground? Of course, I could always add a ground wire to each one, but that would be a last resort.

Tim

Wrap a bare copper wire around the back of the bulb socket if unpainted. Run that to the battery negative or to a good ground. Test with an ohmmeter inline to be certain before fastening it down. Then turn on the parking lights. The bulb should light if everything else is fine. Once it lights as a parking lamp, it will flash properly.

Check your front bulbs to be sure they are the correct type (two terminals). Temporarily replace with a known-good lamp (out of the taillight will be fine for testing). Then check your sockets to be sure both contact pins are properly springing back. Then insert the bulbs, try both ways, to gauge the quality of the sockets. I have seen some sockets so poorly constructed that the bulb will insert either way, and the wrong filament will light (the replacement sockets in my '69 tail lamp harness are this type...on my to-do list). Then be sure the sockets are securely soldered to the housings and don't wiggle.

I just ran into this issue on my dad's '68. It has the early two bulb front lamp housings, and they were heavily rusted and one bulb was shattered. Although they would flash on hazard, the right turn signal would not flash due to the bad bulb. And that bulb (and its companion) is really, really stuck in the socket.

OK, turns out one of your suggestions was right on. I had amber 1156 bulbs in the front. Changed them to clear 1157 and they work fine now. Except now...

With headlight switch on off position, doors closed and courtesy lights off, the rear tail lights and arrows are on, and brightness adjustable via the headlight switch!

Last night I got my cammer out. Another motorist pulled up next to me to tell me my left tail lamp wasn't working, and "nice car."
When I got to my destination I checked things out. The tail lamps were working, but the left turn signal and brake weren't. The right side worked, then switching back, the left worked. I started to jiggle the turn signal stalk and that showed the culprit, the replacement turn signal switch. I'd replaced that switch last year.

With further investagation I'm certain the switch is bad. The right tail lamp stays on after turning the lights off. And with the lights off, using the turn signals will make one or the other side stay on, or both. So it looks like I get to dive into the column again.

The 1156 were single filament bulbs. That was the source of the problem. The only place our cars use 1156 is in the backup lamps. Scroll down to find the correct bulbs. Be sure the tail lamps also have 1157s.

http://thefirstgensite.com/library/partscounter/illustrated/misc/fusebulb1.html

If the bulbs are correct and the issue continues, try your headlight dimmer switch. Kick it to the opposite position.

I replaced the headlight switch yesterday with an NOS one as the ceramic part was broken on the existing.

All the bulbs in the back are correct.

And rear turn signals will not work when brake lights are on.

Correction. When brake lights are on, passenger turn signal works and drivers brake lights so not work. When drivers turn signal is on, passenger brake lights work.

Brake light on both sides work when pedal is depressed.

Running lights work. All bulbs have been checked, rechecked and swapped out.

Headlight dimmer switch does not operate the courtesy lights until it gets to locked position, than they come on. Until that point, only the tail lights come on, dimmer adjustable.

That sounds like a bad headlamp switch, or a bad ground between the headlamp switch and the dash.

When you make many changes at once, troubleshooting is a little more convoluted than a simple failed component.

Tried another headlamp switch and still have the same thing...

Very frustrating.

Did you try the headlight dimmer switch (on the floor)? See if the symptoms are the same for high and low beam.

Yes, I did and no difference.

One other thing, it only occurs with the key in the on position.

That would throw the steering column in as a suspect. Is it the original column and switches, or has that been replaced too?

Do the parking, brake, and headlamps work properly with the key off?

Did you connect the door jamb switches and ensure they are not grounding out?

Hang on...

When you altered your horn relay circuit, show me how you hooked it up.

Original steering column, undisturbed during the restoration.

Key off, headlights, low and highs work properly. Rear arrow heads and tail lights work with headlight switch in parking light position. NO front running lights (turn signals)

Key on, headlight switch OFF, dash lights, console light, tach light, heater light on, under dash courtesy lights off. Dimmer controls arrow heads until lock on position, than under dash lights come on. Turn signals work on all 4 corners, brake lights work, but not properly when both are on. (brake and turn signal)

Have not checked for grounding out of door jamb switches. Would require removing the kick panels. PLEASE tell me I do not need to remove them again. They seem to be operating as they should. Door open, lights go on, door closed, lights go off.

Good. Is there an adapter harness under the column, or was the new wiring a direct fit?


Remove those front bulbs and leave them out for now.


None of the lamps should be on with the key on and the switches off. Something from the ignition circuit is feeding back into the lamp circuit. But where to start?



In an earlier thread you indicated that the courtesy lights do not work unless you turn the dimmer all the way up. That's why I asked about the door switches. If in fact the lamps work properly with door operation, no worries there.

Dash harness is original, unhacked and never removed. Replaced, engine, front and rear light harnesses with factory style duplicates.



Will do.



It confuses me too as prior to resto, no issues with the dash harness at all.



Good, because it's back on all 4 rubbers and I really didn't want to have to put it in the air again to start removal of the e-brake system. Still planning on taking it to get an alignment next Saturday whether this is diagnosed yet or not.

Just to clarify, the courtesy lights operate properly with the door operation, and when doors are closed and headlight switch is in 'locked on' position.

In the trunk, the fuel gauge and license plate lamp both draw power at the same connector, but on different circuits.

Fuel tank sending unit goes to tan wire. License plate lamp to brown wire. Fuel tank sending unit has power at ignition. Just a long shot...

Nope, they are correct and both work.

Just had though, probably nothing though.

On the new front light harness, there are two, unused rubber connectors near the turn signals, brown wires. I did not cut them off. I assumed these were used on 67 cars and not 68's. Is that correct?

Nope. You ordered a front lamp harness for a '68 with separate side marker bulbs. Just like my dad's car. Very early production only, first few weeks of the '68 model year.

Be certain they are not shorting out anywhere, like the center contacts coming out of the sockets as there is no bulb in them. The factory service bulletin suggests that the wires be cut off clean near the harness bundle, then folded back and taped. Short of getting the correct harness, that's probably the best option. And you could send me those sockets and pigtails.

Of course you can have them. I will work on that tonight. I'm positive they are not shorting out on anything though. I also have a set of NOS coupe wiper arms, still in the package, I was planning on sending you as well for all your help to date.

PM sent

And replied...

OK, I have narrowed down the back feed of the instrument lights/ dimming issue. If I pull the fuse from the lowest right position, the problem goes away. The fuse panel showed in the 67 supplemental is not like the one I have. I have a 2 column fuse panel, the one shown is one column. The white labeling is worn off and I cannot tell what circuit it controls.

The issue of the right turn signal and brake light combo not working properly is not solved by this, but one problem at a time I guess.