I do think the economy has had an effect on buying. I think there is something we haven't considered when it comes to Firebird prices compared to Camaros and Mustangs. It's what is happening in current trends. The new Camaro is coming out and has had it's advertising in movies, etc. Ford came back with the Mustang again. I love Pontiac but the present day cars have lost it's reputation in horsepower, performance, and maybe styling. I know there have been discussions of a new Trans Am but I doubt it would have a real Pontiac engine. It would probably be the same thing that's in the Camaro. I don't think the Pontiac name is mentioned much now when considering performance vehicles. The new generation of car owners are looking at Camaros, Mustangs, and imports in general. I think gas prices do effect some people. If they can afford only one car per person, I think more are going towards the economical 4cyl and V6. I know some muscle car guys who are driving around old Toyotas to save money. Something else not mentioned is how some people are turning green (as in save the planet). Some people feel strongly about this and are looking at hybrids, alternative fuels, etc. I do think prices will turn around when the economy is better and people are missing the muscle cars.

Looked a t a Challenger V6 SE yesterday, nice... Some how the daughter got my jeep and now I'm driving the Honda Pilot family car.... Thats not going to last.....

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Challenger and Charger. Good point. I've heard quite a few people talk about wanting one of those. They've never owned a Dodge in their life. I think these new "muscle" cars of today are taking away from sales of older muscle cars. I can't blame them when you get today's technology with alot of horsepower. I'm in love with 68 Firebird styling though. Has anyone seen AJ's Firebird from Overhaulin? That was a nice blend of today and yesterday. If that was a new car, I would love it. I would rather have a 400 than the modern engine they put in. I wouldn't want to take a stock 68 and modernize though. I wouldn't say I'm a purist but I do like them more stock than modified. I would like mine a little bit Pro Touring but I wouldn't want to mess with the body style. Oh, did I start rambling? Sorry, I got a little too excited thinking about it...lol.

so, you mean it was thanks to AlGore? since he 'invented' the internet....LOL

Isn't it great that America can 're-invent' herself to create it's own booming economy? All it takes is a great leader to help her along. A leader can lead or divide. We have seen the division in the past 8 years.
American needs to re-invent herself again with an 'alternative energy boom' and a 'rebuild the infrastructure boom'. It can happen, all we need to do is work together like we did in the 90's....

Spread the Wealth

!!!

Funny Gordon! Barrack says over and over that he, himself, should be taxed more. It's amazing how putting the tax rates back where they were just 8 years ago is being portrayed as 'spreading the wealth around'. The 'spreading the wealth around' quote came from that talk that Barrack had with Joe The Plumber. If you watch the actual recorded/filmed talk, Barrack handled that situation that was staged by the republican national committee quite well. But they decided to spin/use it anyway because they have nothing else to campaign on.
And the reason that Barrack has more money to campaign with is, in my opinion, 'comes around, goes around' from how the republicans had more money to spend in the last two elections.

Simplified answer.

No one political solution will work long term in any democratic society.
Why? Because people are inherently greedy. They will find a way to get what they think is due them with whatever system is in place. If that means screwing the man next to you, they will do it.
It's a cycle that gets repeated over and over throughout recorded history.

I was going to stay out of this argument until this idiotic comment.

You have GOT to be kidding me with this? Again, "working together" had f*ck all to due with the economic boom of the 90's. It was COMPLETELY the result of shift in the entire economies technology base. That is it. Bill Clinton had NOTHING to do with it.

And speaking of "working together" and "change", I will bet you $100 that practically five minutes after Barak takes office (I have to concede he will probably win because he is hoodwinking the general populous.) he will back track and say that he will not be able to tackle 90% of what he has promised. That won't mean he will not raise taxes though. That is inevitable with him. You can already see that his thresh hold for the "rich" is creeping down. It was at $250K, than $240K, now he is saying $200K per household.

He is a great public speaker and that is all.

One of my biggest gripe with his so called economic policy is him touting 95% of the populations taxes will go down (Share the wealth). Do the math, it is not possible. Close to 1/3 of the entire population do not pay ANY federal income taxes (http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/1410.html). What is he going to do, give those that do not pay any taxes at all an extra check every year from my paycheck? Because that is sure what it would take to meet his goal and I do think that is his ultimate goal.

Boy politicians and politics in general piss me off lately. Someone promises the world to them and the public eats it up. What happened to earn what you make and keeping what you earn?

Don't get me wrong, I am not thrilled with McCain either, but he is a far sight better. I wish we could have a do over on this election with two new candidates.

They have been installing corporate motors in Trans Am's since 79 (403 Olds)

What do you think is in my 99 Trans Am?

Not a Pontiac motor.

What do you think a 3.8 liter Firebird motor is?

A non Pontiac motor.

78 was the last year of anything decent..Then they used the 301.

You would have been much better staying out of it Tim(if all you have is insults). Instead you cut down my comment for being 'idiotic'. When you start a post as an insult you divide instead of 'working together' by saying something positive (like I did). This is the typical cause of the problems we have in our country. Divided we fail, together we can make a difference. That has been what has worked for us (Americans) in the past and the sooner you get back to that the better we will be.

Agreed.

I would call it divine intervention..ebb and tide.

Look what happened when the dot com mushroom burst and flopped? Stocks were hit hard and took a few years to recover.

And yea, Al Gore invented the internet and Bill Clinton created the dot com boom.

Please!

All Clinton was good for was reducing my military, destroying a perfectly good cuban cigar, indirectly killing his real estate agent and failing to get a sack and address terrorism.

If you are going to cheat (and get caught), make sure she aint a beached whale.

And of course Tom would agree. He thrives on this divisive talk. Look at all that ugliness spat out in one single post!

Was referring to the Bill Clinton comment.

If you see, my post was formulated while you were posting and not a reply to yours above.

As usual, you believe everyone is out to get you.

My post was directed towards Bill Clinton and the dot com and his presidency.

Not your comment. If you read the post.

Only "quoted" as to direct the comment towards how idiotic the dot com and his presidency was.

No, the world does not revolve around you taking my posts personally.

And Catalina didn't supply an author to the post above, and, if you posted it, who cares?

My post was directed towards agreeing about Clinton, and not about the quote given by an anonymous author.

Re-read the post.

Back to my other post.

"Discussing Politics with someone is pointless, they're either agreeing with you or saying stupid stuff"

Agreed and proven! And there are no undecided voters at this point.....

I started my comment with "idiotic", because it was. This seems to be a mantra of the Democratic party as of late. It has been stated time and time again, it did not matter who was in office at the time. The boom would of happened no matter what. So you saying that "working together" and implying the Democratic leadership at the time was behind the boom, was in fact, idiotic.

My comment that we were working together(in the 90's) was from my point of view. This is because I was working together with all the people around me and it worked for us. Whether you were 'working together' with others is your personal experience too.
Let's put this all aside and come Wednesday we can all work together.

'Tis the season for politics, that's for sure!

2+ years of non-stop campaigning. It gets pretty old, doesn't it?

What's worse? Presidential campaigns that will begin again next year or seeing Christmas displays at the mall in October? LOL

I think you`ll be very surprised on how OBAMA will 'SHARE THE WEALTH', hold on to your pocket book...and eventually yopu may have to sell off your birds...he`s going after the way things were in Sweden in the 60`,70`s.....
I wouldnt be surprised he also gets our 'wealth tax' that we had...a tax based on your combined wealth, = money in bank, house(s), boat(s), car(s), fur(s), stocks etc...and we were taxed on that , in "fairness" to the guys who didnt work ,hard, didnt save, spent it all etc....
sure, very fair....
I sure hope he wont win....we`ll all be sorry.

and...re , Joe ,the plumber,,:

Let's See-----

A Guy named Joe, who happens to be a plumber with ambitions for a bigger business, questioned and challenged a Guy named Barack, who happens to be running for President of the US/Leader of the Free World.

And within 24 hours the Media has given us more information about Joe's life than they've given us about Barack's life in the past 18 months.

Thanks to a diligent press corps, we now know about Joe's professional licensing status, his income tax situation, his employment history, his domestic squabbles, his voting record, everything associated with his personal identity; his education…. It's probably been reported somewhere whether he wears boxers or briefs.

Thanks to a lazy press corps…We still don't know what grades Obama made in college; how he got into Harvard; when he met Bill "the bomber" Ayers; when he stopped doing illegal drugs; his medical history; whether he still smokes cigarettes; the extent of his affiliation with socialist/communist organizations; why he's no longer a licensed attorney; whether he lied on his Bar application;

Whether he'd qualify for a security clearance if he were just an "average Joe;" what passport he used to travel to Pakistan in 1981; who his ex-girlfriends are; whether he was or still is an Indonesian citizen; why his Kenyan grandmother insists he was born there; whether he was ever legally named Barry Soetoro or anything else besides Barack Hussein Obama;

Why he needed the help of a crook to purchase his family home; where he was on Nov. 6 and 7, 1999; what the long-version of his birth certificate says; why he helped an anti-American, pro-Islamic candidate for Kenyan President against US interests; why he listened to Rev. Wright's sermons for 20 years; how many times he took his kids to a Rev. Wright sermon; what he actually did as chair of the Annenberg Challenge; the depth of his relationship with ACORN.

Well, you get the idea.

But, really, I am SO relieved that the Mainstream Media has done its job vetting Joe The Plumber, who is NOT running for public office, but who had the AUDACITY to challenge Barack Obama, who wants my vote for President of the United States of America.'

Bjorn, one thing you have to remember is no one person can change everything. Just because Obama gets a Democratic congress doesn't mean a blank check.
I don't think they'll rubber stamp bills like the repub congress did for W. They'll loose their seats next election if they do.
I'd rather have a split govt, most do, but the thought of the McCain-Palin ticket being able to replace possibly two Supreme Court justices scares the crap out of me. But at least with a demo congress they could stonewall them.

With the election only a few days away I'm still flipping a coin, 2 out of 3? 3 out of 5, etc...
Sucks that out of 300+ million people these are our best choices.

I agree ,to a point....but this time we have a left of the left guy running...we have Pelosi and Reid...both congress and the senate...its going to be a lot more left than it was right when GWB got things his way...

just listen to Pelosis , "Taxing stocks"...
Obamas (undetermined) level of people getting tax 'refunds'....believe me if you havent heard a socialist 'lay out his/her plans befroe, you may be in for an awakening...
I was thru all that back home with Olof Palme , do you know who he was? if not google him....he just about destroyed Sweden...took MANY years to get back to 'fairly normal' , as it is now, since 2,3 years...

of course we shouldnt discuss politics on this site...so i`ll refrain from any further comments...just remember my words a few years from now.

Bottom line, Osama wins, we are absoultely screwed in a big way!

They're not the best choices. They are the ones that were politically manageable.

Michigan had a long-hated "Single Business Tax". After years of argument over the premise of taxing businesses who paid more in wages and benefits than those who paid less, regardless of business income or profit, our state's legislative body came up with a new disaster, the Michigan Business Tax. Now we are taxed on gross business income and on business profit. So if you have a business that sells $400,000 a year of goods, but only makes $10,000 a year in net profit, you pay 4.95% of the $400,000 plus 0.8% of the $10,000 which amounts to $19,880. If you sell a high profit item, and have $200,000 net income, you pay $21,400. Yeah, the state is going to put a lot of us, small business owners that are the foundation of local economies, out of business entirely by rewarding those who jack up prices or outsource cheaper inventory.

Your right and I didn't state that. But I think that's part of the point. One of Pontiac's best assets was it's classic V8s. Then GM goes a different route and the Pontiac name doesn't mean the same thing it did before the 80's. That was GM's mistake and now the Pontiac performance name suffers in today's new cars. What Pontiac engine is inspiring a new generation? None that I can think of. The name is lost to the new Chevy, Ford, and Dodge muscle car inspired performance cars.

What totally amazes me is the people that are deathly afraid of Barrack Obama. Shaking in their boots. People that you do not normally see afraid. Scared for one reason or another. You wonder why and then you hear a little 'talk radio' and you know why. The lies out there are really whoppers. Lies that include things about Socialism, Communism, Terrorism, Patriotism, Abortion, Racism, all the appeals. I have to commend the rep party for using every appeal in the book to save a failing party. But it's sad when a party will turn it's members into scared sheep. You guys do not have to be scared.... Things will only change slowly and gradually back to the way they were in the 90's when the country was better off. The country has to move forward 'together'. Many need to learn that when a fraction of the country and it's people move ahead and the rest are left in the dust it doesn't work. You have to realize that a lot of people have been forced to live on less money, less health care, actually less of a life since the republicans have been in power. This isn't a third world country with a ruling class, it's a democracy!
And to stay 'on topic', in a true Democracy, where the middle class excels along with the upper class, our 1st generation Firebirds will be worth more because their major appeal is to the middle class. They appeal to the 'Heart Of America' because that's who owned them when they were new. And most importantly, if the middle class is healthy and prospering, then they will be able to afford, keep, and drive their 'Birds!

All those handouts have to come from somewhere. Whether it be housing subsidies, food subsidies, energy subsidies, immigrant aid programs or whatever...that money comes from taxes paid by working people or retired workers. It's not government money, it's not magic money that just appears. It's my money. It's your money. Unless you don't pay taxes.

If I see someone starving I'll buy him/her a meal. I'm not going to hand over my checkbook and say go ahead, you can eat every day. But that is what the goverment programs do. It's a blank check to NOT take control of your own life and responsibility for yourself. There are no federal programs that will pay my family's hospital costs, I have to purchase my own insurance or take a chance. But there programs to help illegal immigrants. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9903E2DD1E3CF933A2575BC0A9629C8B63

CUT THE CRAP! Since there are fewer jobs, at least in this area the seasonal immigrant population will likely decline next year. That means the price of lawn services, landscaping services, and snow plowing will probably go up for those who can't be bothered with taking care of their own chores. On the other hand, that frees up jobs for people who live here, if they're not "too good" to take them.

Jim, if you actually study what a democracy is, it has no classes. Our country does have several of the pillars of democracy. What we lack is complete pluralism. The government supports, controls, or is involved in far too many areas of our society. Under the false premise of allowing the government to "protect" us, we're undermining the pillars of democracy. You can't blame "the government", because the government is us. If that's not the case, then we are failing in our mission to be a democracy.

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/whatsdem/whatdm2.htm

Jim ,go study a couple of threads on "Swedens socialism"...off the web...you`ll see whats in store...
and yes ,everybody will say "this is not Sweden"...but Sweden has been a model for many years for the American socialists , AND democrats...guess what country Hillary was studying on her health plan?
theres a lot more to what happened in sweden than you would think....look it up...read about it ,take it in...its been done...then see what finally happened the last 3 years!

and , no I dont ever listen to talk radio, period...its a waste of time...my 27 yr experience of socilism (living it) is not though...

Jim , look up "Swedens socialism" on google or the web...lots of it there...one of them for instance is : http://www.namyth.com/SocialismWORKS!/index.php?sw=Sweden#crazy

Bjorn, I noticed you commented on Hillary studying the healthcare plan of Sweden, yet in another post (I forget what topic) you commented about the health care costs of America and it's not like Sweden. There is a health care cost problem in America. I watched a PBS special showing the different health care systems in different countries. They talked about the advantages and disadvantages of each system. Many countries including Great Britain have systems where their citizens pay little to no costs for health care. Every country has some type of "socialism" aspect. The Social Security program could be considered socialism. That doesn't make the USA as a whole a Socialist country or that Obama will make it as one. The checks and balances of the USA government is setup to prevent that. Congress would have to turn socialists and that's not happening at this time nor will I think it ever will.

you are correct , Hillary studied Swedens health care, basically because US`s system is NOT like Swedens, but she thinks she`d like it to be...do I? no, Has she lived it? no... have I lived it ,, yes!

I`ve lived both systems ,27 years there , almost 40 here, with a 'stint' of 18 mo over there , where I had the "opportunity' to live it again, having surgery...I have explained the surgeiries I have had in both countries too many times to do it again ,so you`ll suffer from being the 'newcomer'...just trust me...I`ve lived both ...and I`ll take THIS any day!
here ,you get service, there ,you`re a number...and its 6 mo or more for an ASAP surgery!
I do have relatives in Sweden (one a nurse), and Denmark and France ,so I have some to compare from

free, yes, you dont pay for it at the time, but yu pay fr it ALL the time instead

Coming from someone who has experienced Sweden's health care system and the USAs, I won't argue with you on that. I would like to see some type of healthcare reform here in the USA that works for everyone.

Universal healthcare means there is no reward for success...payment to providers is minimal, and the same for hacks and top notch doctors alike.

Even though it costs a lot, I do not want to give up my right to choose my healthcare provider, and to have fast (same or next day) appointment for routine stuff, and not have deductibles or limits on care.

I would not want to be stricken with a critical illness while insured by a government program. My son is alive because our insurance was the best of the best, they immediately transferred him to the best facility, paid for experimental treatment that saved his life, paid for six weeks in ICU, and paid for all care afterward. We paid $20 out of pocket for copay on two prescriptions. The bills were close to $1M...if we pay our premium until we die we still won't have given it all back.

health care reform...like what? better doctors?better equipment?
cheaper? (you get what you pay for, even in socialistic societies, just in a different way)...more timely doctors appt? the do NOT go to the Socialistic system....
what is the reform desired?....
right now it works great for 2 of three parts of the current system...if you have good coverage ,its great, if you have NO coverage is good (without coverage, you `ll be admitted for serious stuff, you will not be kicked out on the street as some say), if you have bad coverage ,then its bad....

In America; You are diagnosed with a brain tumor, malignant. You do not have health insurance because you are between jobs or some other reason. There are countless Americans without health insurance. You see the specialist and he prescribes chemo therapy. Since you have no health care coverage you DO NOT get the chemo right away. You find out that if you write the drug company and explain your life story and they decide whether you are worthy of the drugs. They also tell you that you should go door to door and ask your neighbors for money to help pay for your chemo. If you are eloquent enough to write an appealing letter to the drug company they may decide you are worthy of the drug. By the time they decide you are worthy it's often too late. A month can go by as you wait to be judged worthy or not.
My father-in-law was judged worthy after my wife wrote a pleading letter to the drug company for him. He died anyway. The cancer specialist said that the extra month waiting for the drug could have been what made the treatment worthless. If he would have had insurance he would have gotten his chemo when needed.
All this in America! We need serious health care reform so good people do not die because they are less fortunate.
And this ain't Sweden. Our economies are totally different. There's no comparison to make between the two countries.

Yes, Jim I know theres no comparioson....yet...lets keep it that way... my family old friend in Sweden died a few years ago, after years of dialysis...he needed kidney transplant...he was in his 60s...."they" (the nat`l health care) decided he was too old for a transplant "use it in younger patients"...
my best friends anunt , a nurse ,died with a heart attack...she KNEW she had one, got a cab ,ent to the hospital, where they sent her home , because" she didnt arrive in an ambulance", she died at home..
I can get you many more stories, some on my mothe, from the "free" nat`l health care in Sweden...

my best friend as mentioned abv ,lives here in Texas though ,he was drining 18 whhelers...had no health insurance, had a gallbladder explode on him in Hoio, guess what, got it taken care of! , he got billed a few times, but said he couldnt pay for it...they covered it...same here ,when he lost an eye , due to Diabetes, he gets free care here...

he says ,hes glad he`s not in Sweden...

when I needed my Hernia operation in early febr 78 in Sweden, the doctor told me I needed surgery ASAP...nurse scheduled me for late August, I said " the doctor said asap"...she says " that IS Asap"


we got it lots better here than most of us know, we just complain and "think" others have it better....

apparantly you didn't read my post.... we have it worse than most of us know... There's nothing much worse than dying because you didn't have health insurance. One thing that makes death a little worse is for your family to have to beg for drugs and then you die... How much worse is there than that?

yes I did, but apparantly you didnt read mine...?\
and yes, there IS something worse, dying while supposedly have the THE best health care in the world ,andhaving paid for it with your taxes all your life , but not getting help ,because someone decides "you`re too old".....= "free" national health care