I have a 1969 Firebird. It came with the original protect-0-plate, but it is stamped WM for the engine code and the block is stamped YE. I know that it is the original because I checked the VIN and the serial # on the block and they match. Has anyone ever heard of the dealer screwing up the protect-0-plate? Also, the original purchaser had the dealer take out the "3 on the tree" and put a center console in with a TH350 (which is reflected on the protect-0-plate by JF). Would the dealer change the stamp on the block to reflect this? It is all kinda weird to me. I can't imagine they would change the entire engine, would they?

WM = 350/265hp/Manual/2 bbl
YE = 350/265hp/Auto/2 bbl
JF = TH350/350/2bbl

1. Is your car manual or auto trans?
2. What is the trans code on your Protect-O-Plate?

The car from the factory was manual (all the linkage is still there) but the dealer added the TH350 w/ the center console. The protect-0-plate says JF for the tranny code.

The car from the factory was manual (all the linkage is still there) but the dealer added the TH350 w/ the center console. The protect-0-plate says JF for the tranny code.

The story is sketchy indeed. Few dealers would be willing to assume responsibility for the warranty for a swap like that, and few customers of a "family type" car would have been willing to take a new car without a warranty. A lot of cars have had drivetrain swaps over the years, it's not all bad, but deception or a misunderstanding along the ownership chain will go until it's proven otherwise. A dealer invoice showing a trans swap would prove me wrong, and verify your car. The dealers did print the Protect-O-Plate for the customer, but remember that those can be bought from online sources that stamp them any way you want them.

If you want to post the stampings on the block face (code, EUN and VIN) as well as the block casting number (right rear of block) and casting date (near distributor base) you'll get a number of comments as to how the characters are different or similar to factory stampings and how the codes fit the build date.

Have you ordered a PHS for your car to confirm the options on the Protect-O-Plate and on the car? It also contains the Engine Unit Number, which is stamped by the letter code. The two should match.

What is the build date on the cowl tag? What is the code on the distributor?

And would you be upset or like your car any less if it turned out to have been modified?

I do have the PHS documents for my car. I just got them the other day. They do indeed show that the TH350 was added along with the console. Where is the EUN on the PHS build sheet? Where/what is the cowl tag? Everything lines up with the VIN, Body Tag, PHS documents and engine serial #. The only off thing is the protect-0-plate. And no I wouldn't like it any less if this info doesn't line up, i will just have to kick some crap heads a$$ for lying to me. Also, it does only have 69,895 miles on it. That much i know is certain. Have you every heard of someone tampering with the enigne serial number? Did i also mention that i have the body broadcast sheet that was found in my car? It was from six cars ahead of mine on the assembly line.

PHS would only show what the car left the factory with. PHS is rock solid info and would not show any dealer added items. You may want to look all of your info over again, something just doesn't add up...

I thought that the PHS build sheet is what the customer ordered? Did GM just build a whole buch completly different birds and "hoped" someone would buy it/them?

sorry for the double post up there, my internet is quirky at best at work. Also, when i get home tonight around 2230, i will scan all of my documentaion and post it up here. What and where are all of the numbers on the vehicle that i should care most about? I am going to make a checklist and i will get all of those for you all.

The PHS document will show the build sheet identical to the way the car was built and left the factory. If a dealer did an engine swap, tranny swap, hood swap etc. it would not be reflected on the PHS. Build sheets were not corrected or updated to reflect changes made after the car left the factory...

ok, either way the tranny works out to be correct with the build sheet. Why then would GM also put all of the linkage for the "3 on the tree" in a car that they know is going to be an automatic. Would they put all of that linkage just for the key lock detent thingy? I am sorry for asking so many ?'s, i am just very eager to figure out as much of the history for this car as possible. In fact I just put letters in the mail to the two owners before me (i will be the third) asking them for any information about the car and also asked them to include stuff like speacial memories or photos. They are both very nice Oregon folks.

GM would not have installed any "extra" linkages or parts, they would build the car as per the build sheet. If your car has these extra linkages/parts, then someone along the way added them. If you get a chance post some pics of the car as well, this would help several of the folks on here to help you figure out what is what etc...

Unless what you are seeing is simply the '69 ignition switch interlock, which belongs on all '69s whether console or column shift.

Does your car have a Z-bar? Clutch pedal? Tiny square brake pedal? Those would indicate that it was a manual trans car.

Does your car have a shift indicator on the column? That would indicate that it was once a column shift automatic.

Here's the linkage for a 1969 column shift auto: http://thefirstgensite.com/library/partscounter/illustrated/auto/shift2.jpg

Floor shift auto didn't have any of that, but DID have a lever from the front of the trans lever to the bottom of the column.

will do toinght...scan info and take pics. thanks guys for the info. is this the best forum to talk about this kinda stuff, or should i be using a different thread? thanks again

no cluth pedal, big brake pedal, no column indicator. Was ordering a car back then different from today? I mean, could you get speacial options put on at the dealer, or did you just "pick from what they had at the time"?

You could special order a car which was custom built at the factory, or buy off the lot, just like today. Dealer installed stuff was like luggage racks, floor mats, little stuff.

ok...sorry there are so many pictures, but here they come...i will start with the paper work.

this is the protect-0-plate in question. notice the WM engine code:


this is the PHS build sheet I received:


this is me high lighting everything on the 1969 "master" sheet:


this is my "body tag":


this is the window sticker reprint from PHS:


from what i was told, this body broadcast sheet was found in one of the front buckets under the original upholstery. notice it is only six cars ahead of mine according to the serial #:


ok...there is all of the documents i have, here are the pictures of my "stamps" on the engine and bolt ons:

my VIN:


the block VIN:


the motor unit number and block code:


the displacement ID:

the head code:



the intake #:


the exhaust #:


the carb #'s:

the rest of the photos:

here is the linkage from the tranny to the column:

[img:center]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j309/boobap/IMG_2445.jpg[/img]

here are the interior photos:




like i said, sorry for so many pics...

i could not get the casting code off of the back of the engine and i forgot to get the date code off of the distributor. if these are needed, i will get them tomorrow night. thank you bunches guys and girls.

todd

The column linkage is for the reverse lamps(switch is on column) and shift indicator.

Read the window sticker more closely.
3 spd manual unless other optional equipement specified.
Underneath that is the T.H. trans option 359 for $205.92
Everything listed with a price on the right is an added option.

shift indicator is on the floor. they really ran linkage up to the steering column to some sort of detent to tell the rear lights to come on? there isn't some sort of detent on the tranny itself. i know that i can not shift out of gear without the key turned on...

That's a '69 steering column interlock, the "antitheft" device. And yes, it also operates the backup lights on a '69.

My '69 still has it intact as well.

It does look like the Protect-O-Plate is the only thing with an error. I haven't checked all the numbers, but what I see looks just as it should be for a 350 2bbl automatic.

ok...the newest update is...

here is the # off of my axle:


this is the # from the disributer, is the the wrong one? it says III942 8L14


this is another # from the head, i believe this tells me the valve size and CC's (am i wrong)?

The #47 heads would be correct for either the WM or YE (all 350 2bbl for 1969 I think). The distributor is correct for YE. All the date codes look correct for your build date.

Dealer goofed on the Protect-O-Plate, you have enough to convince me if I were playing the part of a skeptical buyer.

that is excellent to hear. believe it or not i dropped the gas tank today to look for the (i think) chasis build sheet? it was not there...oh well, i have enough documents for this bird. i do have a "nooby" question. what does NOS stand for? i hear it all the time. thanks for all of the help!!!

NOS, in reference to parts, means New Old Stock. However, in practice, it can refer to anything that didn't arrive on last week's truck order from the distributor.

The best-matching NOS original parts date back from when our cars were being built. Later GM service replacement parts sometimes are not cosmetically the same as the originals but can still be NOS.

Long-lost-Jim would say NOS parts are the ones without the bar codes.

(Before anyone gets incensed by that - just understand that I don't care as I'm not a NOS buyer.)

It's "supposed" to mean original discontinued GM parts still in the factory packaging.
Since there are a few parts still availible, some people order them from GM and sell'm on ebay.
Usually for more then what you would pay at the dealer.

It gets alittle complicated since GM discontinues some parts every quarter.
And usually changes packaging colors and loco's about every 10 yrs.
If it's in a green-n-white colored package, it's definitely nos.
If it's blue-n-white, it could be since some stuff has been disc since GM changed packaging. But it still could be availible from GM.

Yes, that's what it should be. eBay sellers play loose with the term. Kind of like "no rust"