To get rid of rust on the rear quarters/wheel arches, is it the opinion of this board that the best solution is to find a "rust-free" donor car, cut and paste? Or are the repro skins the way to go?? (ethical issues of 'killing' a bird aside..wouldn't getting original GM metal the way to go?
I second this question. Have the repro quarters gotten any better? If so, who has good ones? I remember a lot of discussion here in the past about the crappy quarters available. I am pondering the bondo vs new quarter question.
Cameo, since the quarters are usually the first to go bad, a bird with good quarters ought to be in pretty good shape overall and you wouldn't want to chop it up, unless you find a rust free bird with a wrecked front end.
The donor issue always rears it's ugly head. I'm considering surgery on a bare-bones coupe-no engine, no front end, gutted interior.
I figure my 67 Conv will always be the solid investment. It's an all power, a/c, am/fm car. A nice original survivor (rusty quarters excluded) that we like to cruise to the beach in. All the kids keep yelling "pimp my ride!"
I would like to get the body strait and painted. Got a new top. 326/PG column shift runs great. (although having some tranny issues).
I'll spare another bird if someone can reassure me that repro quarter skins are the way to go!!
my opinion is that any repo or nos part is only as good as the person installing it.i have seen some crappy parts installed to look beautiful and some good parts installed to look crappy.best bet is to find a good body man.
I am in the process of having OER full quarters installed on my '69 350 HO by a reputable shop. He showed me several similar Camaro's and as Terry said, the installation makes a world of difference.
Not sure what area you are in, but I can recommend a guy in the Detroit area that will piece in an OER quarter such that only the most discernable Firebird guy would know it had been done.
The OER and Goodmark quarters are pretty good quality and much cheaper than NOS (if you can find them) and easier to deal with than a donor car because you may open up another can of worms when you start cutting quarters off a 35 year old car.
I'm in total agreement with Terry(69firebirdman) and Tom. Terry could not have said it better. I do my own bodywork and after years of practice, I can turn out decent work. ALL of the aftermarket sheet metal is thinner than factory. Any sheet metal you replace should either be cut off a donor car or found NOS. IF, after searching diligently, you can't find factory sheet metal, then Goodmark is OK. The corners are not as crisp as factory and the metal is thinner and easier to dent. I have dented a Goodmark door sanding! In my opinion, GM sheet metal is the way to go. Jim
There are new higher quality quarters now being produced. Coupes are in some limited availability and converts in the near future. I picked up a coupe right quarter recently and it is currently in a resto shop for installation on my convertible. I took some pictures yesterday that I will be posting on my webpage next week sometime. The initial words from the body man in the shop is that the stamping is not too bad.
I had heard bad things about repro skins, the old full quarters and even modifying NOS Camaro quarters for our cars. So I hope this works out. So far, it looks like it will be very good.
I searched everywhere for a good donor car for my '67 convert and could not find any. I had a pair of NOS quarters offered to me for $5k while I've seen the Camaro quarters go typically for $2.5k. I understand that the new skins are much better but have not seen anyone report on them. As one of the earlier posts said, the bodyman makes all the difference. I use to own a bodyshop and I can tell you that there were plenty of times that we were heavily modifying NOS stuff to make it fit.
I'm anxiously awaiting Jim's report as the new full repros are my plan.
And while we're on the topic of sheet metal, we finished up installation of a Dynacorn manufactured one piece full floor pan. I'll post some pics when I get a chance. This is a very nice piece that went in with very little modification.
Everyone's thoughts on this topic are greatly appreciated.
Time is money when it comes to bodywork. And whether you do it yourself or pay someone, the time (and sometimes frustration!) it takes to get the metal folded in can make all the difference in the world.
I'm driving my 67 everyday now...top down! And when it comes time to take the plunge into the body shop $$, I'm hoping those repro quarters are readily available and meeting the strict standards of this group!
The posts have been vague about which new quarters they are talking about. I have seen the new GM restoration quarters. They are slightly thinner and the corners are not as crisp as factory. A good bodyman can make them look exactly like factory quarters. It all depends on who is doing the work. Jim
There are 67-68 full factory style quarters for coupes that have been manufactured with new tooling and that have just arrived (within the last month) at the parts houses. Convertible versions are expected within two months, hopefully sooner than later.
The '69s have been available for a while and I have seen generally positive comments about them. There was, I have read, a short run of some '67-68 full quarters released a year or more ago that were of poor quality.
The skins and 80% quarters have also been released in good and bad batches. The chevrons were incorrect on some early ones and the lower front reveal line above the rocker was off by a 1/4" or so on some of these.
The full '67-68 Camaro repro quarters had problems with the distance between the deck lid gap and top fender line being off by 1/2" or so (pretty major error for a dimension that is about 3").
I just don't see any options for some of us as used and NOS are both extremely rare. Hence, I'm anxious to see the repros.
I hope this is specific enough for you. So are the quarters you are referring to the same ones that were just released (i.e., within the last month)?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Quote by John - There are 67-68 full factory style quarters for coupes that have been manufactured with new tooling and that have just arrived (within the last month) at the parts houses. Convertible versions are expected within two months, hopefully sooner than later. : </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">One of these new quarters is what is being put on my car right now. I purchased a coupe quarter from NPD. I had been on a back order list for several weeks and I believe they only got a few in (their 2nd batch)across their 3? warehouse locations. The chevrons are a perfect match. The lines appear very good. Jim 68 400HO Conv.
The repro quarters I have seen are the GM OER restoration parts. I have only seen the 69's. I believe the 68's have been out a short time. What I ment by "vague" is: If you don't list a manufacturer how can someone tell what quarters you are talking about? Jim
There is only one manufacturer at this time. Classic Ind., NPD, PY, Goodmark, etc... are all getting them from the same offshore manufacturer that has produced other sheetmetal parts. The only info on the manufacturer that I got was that it is not Dynacorn. This is what I've been able to discern from talking at length with reps from each of the listed companies.
So, you are saying that the full quarter panels for 67,68 and 69 Firebirds, that Classic Ind has advertised as GM OEM restoration parts, are being punched out on some Island somewhere? Makes sense because GM is moving everything else out of the US! If that is the case the qualty of any of these stampings are really in question. I know a little about sheet metal stamping having worked on GM presses. From what I have seen produced I know what their problem is: The presses that they are using to make the repros are much smaller than the ones GM originally used. Because of this, they have to use thinner sheet metal and they can't recreate the sharp corners. All is not lost because you can make these sorry repros look just as good as factory. Just put your ear plugs in when you go to see your bodyman because he will be *****in about the extra work!
I put the pictures of the progress of my new right quarter on my website. It is not done because the car is still in the shop. If I can borrow a micrometer from a neighbor I will measure the factory and new stamped quarter metal to compare thickness. (Anyone know of another way to measure it? I saved the unused sail panel and the cut out original panel (to keep the chevrons area). See: http://www.geocities.com/jims68fb/Quarter.html
The full qtrs made after Jan 04 are supposed to be near NOS quality.
Anything made prior to that should be used for tuna cans- major dimensional issues with the trunk area and door jam. Along with the above problems they also did not accept the wheel well trim and the chevrons were not deep enough.
The guys at NPD seem to be the most forthcoming about this issue and will hand pick a pair of the "new" qtrs being made- as to not confuse your order with the pre 04 production units.
I did all this research and then bought a california shell.
GM Restoration Parts is simply a licensing agreement. GM has very little if anything to do with the manufacturing of any GM Restoration Parts sheetmetal. Supposedly, GM holds OER to higher standards but I don't see this happening in practice. It's my understanding that the same parts can be sold for less without the GM Resto label so go figure.
The main problem with the over seas operations are that the dies. Up until Roger Smith, GM desgined their dies for infinite life. Now they design for the expected production run. The overseas stamping of repro parts goes a step further and uses die material that is typically good for about 200 hits. Around hit #200 the lines are softened up.
Again, despite the infinite life design, GM's original dies were often not stored properly and subsequent pressings with rusted or chipped dies yielded poor results. The GM Chevy Truck fenders for '73-79 were a typical sore point for me back in my body shop days. They were little better than the Taiwan repops at 4x the cost.
Jimc2002: Thanks for the pics - that's nearly exactly how we were planning on doing it except we need to do the jam area also. My poor, butchered car had the front half of the driver's quarter incorrectly repaced at one point in its life.
Fbody69: Nice car on your site - I'm envious. Mine is no where near numbers matching but has nearly every option but A/C and is one of the first 20 cars to go down the line. That, and the fact that I bumpered towed it home more than 1000 miles (20 years ago) make it my perfect resto.
I went throught the problem of quarter panel replacement. In the begining I went with the cut camero repops and install firebird cheverons. This was time consuming and those panel were poor fit and the metal was not the same quality. I did the work before firebird panels were introduced. never again will i convert camero to firebird just too much work. When I found out that firebird panels were being introduced in jan 2004; I set my sights on replaceing them with a pair of good mark panels. I was worried about the fit, finish and overall design. When I recieved them; I was floored . They looked great and have clean sharp lines. I removed the first replacements and installed the new panels. the fit was fantastic. and went on without any problems. I got lucky
I got lucky and found a guy that still had one NOS 68 FB quarter in a old Hemming catalog. I ended up getting a used quarter for the other side. I wish they would have had these new stamping back then, I would have saved a fortune.
I spoke to Shane at Classic Industries today and he reported that quarters are now due in mid July to early August. Mid-July is within their original window that they gave me back in early November.
He also said that the dies are original GM dies that have been repaired to give like original results. He also said that Pontiac is reviewing the quality and their approval is needed before a production run. Classic is also test fitting quarters on cars near their facility.
I'm still a bit cynical about it, but was pleasantly surprised to learn that GM is taking an active role in what their licensees are doing.
I reported on the use of a new stamped 68 coupe quarter for my convert a couple weeks ago. I have the car back now. I had the shop take it through primer. I shot the solar red last friday and did the wet sanding and compounding the past two days. Tomorrow I start putting the car back together. I'm pretty happy with the results so far. To be continued....
John, Thanks for reminding me. A neighbor/friend who is owns a machine shop had a micrometer at home and did the measurement for me tonight. The factory metal and new stamping is fairly close. The factory quarter (with paint removed) measured out at .035. The new sheet metal was .033.
I spent some time reassembling stuff on the car today. I had to elongate the quarter bumper mounting holes slightly for a better fit. And, I will have to do the same for the upper level chevron chrome mounting holes. The lower were drilled perfectly but they drilled the upper ones about 1/16 to 1/8 too low. Jim
![[Linked Image]](http://chipsteele.net/ebay15jan04/firebirdsmall.jpg)
and went on without any problems. I got lucky 
