Looks like the back of my subframe is a rusted POS. I'm keeping an eye out for a new (used) one and will be hitting a swap meet or two in about a month.

I could swear I read on here that the 67/68/69 cars all have year specific suspensions that don't mix (and now can't find that info again)?

My Questions:

If I buy a stripped subframe, can I put my entire 67 Firebird suspension on any 67-69 camaro/bird subframe?

If I buy a 67-69 subframe, but I am unclear on the actual year, are the wear items the same? (Bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, etc?)

Are there any pros/cons to using a Nova subframe? From what I understand, the only major difference is drilling the holes for the bird bumper?

Will a Camaro or Nova sumframe have the mounting holes for the Pontiac V8 engine mounts?

I'm not new to suspension swaps. I put an entire power disc brake front suspension off a 71 Chevy truck onto a manual drum 67 truck. However, I'm a tick clueless when it comes to birds and I'd rather not buy an expensive nightmare/mess.

The first gens are all the same. I know the chevy's have different brackets for the engine but you can unbolt yours and re-use them. I've always heard the nova's were basically the same but I've never tried to use one.

Camaro/Nova will work as far as I have heard

Not exactly.

Each of the 1st Gen FGF's are a bit different in regard to where the rebound bump stop for the front lower "A" arm is located. If you mix and match subframes and control arms, you will run into problems.

In '67 the bump stop is on the frame behind the spring pocket.
In '68 the bump stop is on the control arm behind the spring pocket
In '69 the bump stop is on the control arm in front of the spring pocket.

If you use aftermarket tubular control arms, the bump stop location is interchangable and you will be OK

I have a '68 Nova subframe on my car. I did not have any bumper mounting problems and I am pretty sure that Pontiac designed the FGF bumper to work with the Camaro subframe.

Cool. Does the Nova subframe have the bolt holes for the Pontiac V8 mounts?

Thanks for the detailed info. That will help me identify the specific years at swap meets. I've learned to never trust what the seller says about the year of something

Salmon is spot on. I have a 69 subframe in my 68. Had to use the lower control arms from 69.

So, I got to looking at my car. Apparently my car has a 68 subframe under it (according to the description above.) It actually makes sense, when my dad bought the car it had a 68 lower valence/fender cups/turn signals. The hood also had the 68 style latch and 68 hood latch. They must have just swapped the entire front clip, subframe and all. The rest of the car is definitely 67, title, firewall VIN, no rear markers, dash, doors all point to a 67... weird, huh?

Anyone else notice the coil sping spacers? I know my dad wouldn't have added those, they must have been on there a loooong time. There's one on each side.

Basically there are adapter plates that GM bolted to the main crossmember to allow for either Pontiac or Chevy motors. All you need is to transfer those adapter plates from your old subframe.

I have a friend I have known since high school. Back then he had a '67 Camaro that somebody swapped a '68 front clip onto - probably the result of an accident.

Those twist in spring spacers are a quick and dirty fix to prevent cars with weak front springs from bottoming out. I did that back in the 70's to my first Mustang.

Ok, that all makes sense. Thanks so much. I guess I want to find a complete subframe in good shape for a disc swap (I noticed my PS lower control arm has some impact damage). There's actually a couple nice ones on fleabay, but they're too far. I'm sure the Charlotte autofair should have one or two. There was a local one one on craigslist a couple weeks ago but I missed out. It was a 69, I was afraid of the suspension differences.

Jessejames, Visit Hammered's site

http://john.my67.net/subframe.htm

he has a nice link in the suspension page that compares the differences with the 67, 68, 69 subframes.

Good luck.

that link goes direct to the page.

I replaced the subframe on our car with one that a member here found for me in California. He was kind enough to strap it to a pallet and I had it brought to Michigan by common carrier for $122. Contact this carrier Echo Global Logistics. They ship through several ltl carriers. Mine was business to business which saves money. Really easy people to do business with.

Those spring spacers were a bit better than the two pieces of wooden 1X2 that were wedged into each side of both front coils when I bought mine. Along with the absence of upper bushings on the right side made for interesting trouble shooting.

Wow, that website has some great info. Based on that info, I think I'd rather have a 68-69 subframe anyway.

Thanks so much for all the info. I have plenty of time to find a subframe, but I missed out on a really good deal (the 69 was rust free, only $200, complete, and only 30 mins from me) so that's why I posted my Q's now, if I see a great deal again I can jump on it confidently now

I'm not a fan of sping spacers either. Not a fan of cutting springs to lower either. But WOOD spacers? LOL I'd hate to see what else they did to the car.

Hey all, bumping this back to the top

I scored a real nice subframe off of craigslist. It's from a 69 Firebird (guy was going with super expensive aftermarket set up). It also has a "runs but runs real bad" Pontiac 350/350 combo. I also got an extra set of exhaust manifolds and stock air cleaners for both a 2 barrel and 4 barrel carbs... all for a whopping $250!!!

The motor is basically as "complete" as was when it came from the factory, even has all the heat shields and wire separators. It also has power steering, and I don't see any leaks from the pump or box. It actually looks rustier in the pics than what it really is. It really just needs a power wash and a wire wheel scuff and it will basically be ready for paint.

I drove 230 miles round trip on Saturday up past Charlotte, NC to pick it up, it was a fun road trip.

Wow, you can sell off the motor and tran and make
some money on the deal. great find.

Wow, Nice score!

I'm always jealous when somebody else gets a score. Hey, similar topic, has anyone had experience with the new repro subframes (the stock one, not the resto mod one)?

This is rare. I usually don't get a response from craigslist sellers, even if it's a new posting. I tried to buy another one about a month ago but it was gone the day it was posted!

I'm very happy with the purchase. My dad already called dibs on the motor... that is... if I can't find a use for it first

Thanks all, I'm excited to start "doing stuff" soon, until then, I'm getting my other baby ready for cruising...

Nice catch! What heads does the 350 have? Look at the number on the center port.

K128?

That's the date code, November 12th, 1968

The head no. is two digits, looks like it may be a 17 headed motor to me?

It's on the center exhaust port.

Yeah... I started looking them up and realized I made a boo boo.

They're "47" heads.

From the website I found, they're from a 1969 325HP 350??? Is that right? I may go with this motor...

http://www.yearone.com/yodnn/tech/vehicl...23/default.aspx

Can't get the block numbers, all covered in sludge and it's raining pretty hard out...

I use Wallace http://www.wallaceracing.com/cgi-bin/engine3.cgi


Year Engine HP Engine code Trans CR Cam Head Code BBL Carb No. Misc
1969 350 265 HP WC M 9.2 254 47 1-2 7028071 30 degree int. Block Casting # 9790079
1969 350 265 HP WM M 9.2 254 47 1-2 7028071 45degree int. Block Casting # 9790079
1969 350 265 HP WP M 9.2 254 47 1-2 7028071 30 degree int. Block Casting # 9790079
1969 350 265 HP WU M 9.2 254 47 1-2 7028071 45degree int. Block Casting # 9790079
1969 350 265 HP XB A 9.2 254 47 1-2 7029062/72 45 degree int. Block Casting # 9790079
1969 350 265 HP XL M 9.2 254 47 1-2 7029062/72 30 degree int. Block Casting # 9790079
1969 350 265 HP XR A 9.2 254 47 1-2 7029062 30 degree int. Block Casting # 9790079
1969 350 265 HP XS A 9.2 254 47 1-2 7029062 45 degree int. Block Casting # 9790079
1969 350 265 HP YE A 9.2 254 47 1-2 7029062/72 45 degree int. Block Casting # 9790079
1969 350 265 HP YJ A 9.2 254 47 1-2 7029062/72 30 degree int. Block Casting # 9790079
1969 350 265 HP YN A 9.2 254 47 1-2 7029062 30 degree int. Block Casting # 9790079
1969 350 265 HP YU A 9.2 254 47 1-2 7029062 45 degree int. Block Casting # 9790079

265 HP makes a lot more sense as it doesn't look to me like the 2 barrel has ever been taken off. I figured 325 should have had a 4 barrel.

Does anyone have information about bump stop locations on the Nova frames? I have a 69 Firebird with a junk subframe and I'm trying to find a suitable replacement. I put up a WTB ad on Craigslist and have gotten a few replies, one '69 Camaro, one '72 Nova. If I'm understanding everything correctly, I should be able to use my 69 Firebird control arms on a 69 Camaro subframe. Any other year will require me to use that same year lower control arm. I haven't been able to find information on the Nova. Also, I don't think anyone chimed in about the wear items... are ball joints, bushings, etc the same for 67-69? Thanks!

I believe 69 to 74 subframes all share the same bumpstop locations on rear steer subframes. Boltholes for fuel lines, brake lines, and clutch linkage will have their differences. I have a 72 subframe that I'm using on my 68. The control arms on my 68 have boltholes for both bumpstop locations. Neill