I would take pics and document everything. Keep the oil filter that was used. If your inclined to get some compensation you will want all the information that you can get. May want to talk to the first shop that built it and let then know your intentions. May be able to get some kind of settlement without court cost.
Why were the bearing shot and the cylinders scored? Can I assume something didn't get cleaned? I just can't possibly see how you could not know there was a tube of RTV in the oil pan.
Glad you have one of the good names in the industry going through it now.
I've mentioned the findings to the prior machine shop and mechanic. Both respond with swearing, threats, and hang-ups. Both have weapons in the shop and a stupid redneck mentality. Most of the money spent was cash.
Additionally, when they are calm, they mention that I voided all warranty by having an expert look at the engine, but that they offered to "fix" it all a 3rd time prior to someone else taking possession of it.
1968 Firebird 400 Convertible Original: Engine, Intake manifold, Heads, Body, Stereo, 3.08. THM400. Engine rebuilt by Ken Keefer early 2012. New: Holley 4bbl 670 HP, hidden iPod setup, RobbMC mini starter, A/C, front disc brakes
Seems that the block, intake, and heads (all original) are not severely damaged, so we will be working with my original gear!
While it is in the expert's hands, we are going to build it a little bit. It was a stock, timid 400. (just headers and a carb - so I guess I'm not really a purist, though I do want the heavy metal to be original still)
Port the intake Valve job, Massage heads, springs, retainers, keepers, boot seals Molly push rods Cam (biggest that they can do on an A/C car they said, probably 491 230/236) Crank (used, 10/20 at most, non-weld up) Roller rockers I-Beam rods Baffled oil pan Oil Pump Mains Rings Timing set Hone block Assembly Break-in
$3500
They hadn't done the math yet, but they were saying this combo is up to 400hp @ the crank.
Should get it back in the first half of January!
1968 Firebird 400 Convertible Original: Engine, Intake manifold, Heads, Body, Stereo, 3.08. THM400. Engine rebuilt by Ken Keefer early 2012. New: Holley 4bbl 670 HP, hidden iPod setup, RobbMC mini starter, A/C, front disc brakes
You'll need to change your signature with the new rebuild date.
1968 400 Coupe, verdoro green, black vinyl top 1968 400 Convertible, verdoro green, black top 1971 Trans Am, cameo white, auto 1970 Buick Skylark Custom Convertible 350-4(driver)
That cam, .491/...230/236...sound awfully aggressive to me for a 400CI with AC...with an auto tranny...you'll need to consider a higher stall convertor ...
Just my 2 cents
I'm a hobbyist. Not a professional. Don't be hatin'!
Wovenweb - I sure will Waiting to get possession again. Need a new sig photo with the red line tires, too!
Firebob - They don't have a dyno, just a break-in stand. The local engine dyno that I know of is $400 to sit on, so I think I'll just do the cheapy rear wheel dyno at some point soon!
Bjorn - Yikes. I think you are right. Too much breaking going on around here!
Bronze Bird - With this whole tranny situation, I've ended up with a new lock up 1800-2000 stall tqcv. I'm supposed to get the build specs sent over to Ken, who will let me know if it is appropriate or not. Do you have any other thoughts on that cam in general?
1968 Firebird 400 Convertible Original: Engine, Intake manifold, Heads, Body, Stereo, 3.08. THM400. Engine rebuilt by Ken Keefer early 2012. New: Holley 4bbl 670 HP, hidden iPod setup, RobbMC mini starter, A/C, front disc brakes
The boys have a lot of experience with Pontiac big blocks. State what you want out of your car performance, comfort, sound, street manners, drag race capabilities etc.
They also need specs on uyour car: engine specs currently, what changes you want, tranny, rear axle etc
More. later off to the bar
Engine Test Stand Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwoxyUwptUcdqEb-o2ArqyiUaHW0G_C88 restoring my 1968 Firebird 400 HO convertible (Firedawg) 1965 Pontiac Catalina Safari Wagon 389 TriPower (Catwagon) 1999 JD AWS LX Lawn tractor 17hp (my daily driver) 2006 Sequoia 2017 Murano (wife's car) 202? Electric car 203? 68 Firebird /w electric engine 2007 Bayliner 175 runabout /w 3.0L Mercuiser__________________________________________________________
Wovenweb - Bronze Bird - With this whole tranny situation, I've ended up with a new lock up 1800-2000 stall tqcv. I'm supposed to get the build specs sent over to Ken, who will let me know if it is appropriate or not. Do you have any other thoughts on that cam in general?
Yes. I run a 230/236 110 in my 468 stroker. Its a roller. I love it. But, I have a 2800 stall convertor and 3:55 rear. I only get 11" of vacuum. Idles at 900 rpm. I think this cam would be a bit much in a 400...and the .491 lift might be too much for stock heads.
I'm a hobbyist. Not a professional. Don't be hatin'!
I ran the RA IV cam - 230/240, 0.469" lift (1.5 rockers) - in my 400 with 2.56:1 gears and a Switch-Pitch but I was after a strong mid-range and top end for our lonely highways up here.
Bronze & TOHCan - Interesting. You know, I didn't even question it, considering it is coming from Ken Keefer. They know that I have A/C and power brakes, that I currently get 14lbs of manifold vacuum, and that I don't want to be unmanageably cam'd out. (This car is a daily driver, pretty much)
The car is currently 400 .30 over. 200-4R built to heavy duty (THM400 is in my garage). 3.08 rear (I'd like to bring this up a bit)... I told Ken Keefer that I'd like to wake it up a bit, but keep it safe & reliable while also using original heads, intake, and block.
1968 Firebird 400 Convertible Original: Engine, Intake manifold, Heads, Body, Stereo, 3.08. THM400. Engine rebuilt by Ken Keefer early 2012. New: Holley 4bbl 670 HP, hidden iPod setup, RobbMC mini starter, A/C, front disc brakes
I'm running a 226/226 single pattern cam on a 110LSA w/165 rockers in a pretty basic 400 and I have to say it's not easily managed at low speeds. I have a M20 so that might make a difference but I don't think I would go much bigger unless I was going to do some other mods to help it work.
It tends to buck(or lunge) a bit and low speeds in gear. Mine is a 4sp so I have to push in the clutch and raise the rpms a bit before I let it out again. Kind of a pain sometimes like cruising through a parking lot or car show. I'm not sure how an auto car would react. Probably if the idle was higher all you have to do is keep your foot on the brake all the time and it's fine. It's one of the things that they talk about if it's "streetable".
I initially had some surging when idling (8-900 rpm) in gear but that was because the mechanical timing curve was starting too soon. Reworking the distributor to have the curve start later (about 1200 rpm) while still being all in at about 2500 cured that. I find that works well even with what would be considered race only cams.
So I'd have to say that I had no streetability issues with the RA IV cam even with the low stall speed and 2.56 gears. Once the engine was warm, it accepted pretty well as much throttle as I felt like giving it without fuss.
I have a 230/236 roller cam in my 468. I had it ground on a 114 LSA. I question if I should have left it at the 112 LSA. The whole thing with the Lobe seperation gets fuzzy because you really need to go by valve opening/closing events to determine the overlap instead of the # of deg between the lobes. The reason I bring this up is the LSA or overlap really makes all the difference in how the car will behave. With the 114 LSA I get a very smooth idle and lots of vacuume. The 2.5 exhaust give a good tone and with my head in the engine compartment it sounds like a stock 400 idleing. The close LSA typicly will give a higer peak HP/Torq #s, a wider LSA will typicly give a better average HP/Torq #s.
Its the whole combo of parts that really matter. I ran a H10 Ultradyn cam on a 110LSA in my GP and it it ran great. I had a Torquer II intake/edlebroch carb and 3 tube cheepe headers. When I put this same motor in my FB with LBM and stock intake it idled terible and seemed to be way down on power. The Q-jet hated the low vacuum. Also I learned that tighter LSA like headers becuase of the scavaging effect. Now with the new roller its a whole different car. Very hard to describe as its much more tame and faster at the same time. The one thing I regret is putting the 13" continental convrter in. I should have maybe put in the 10" converter. The cam really does need more stall. It stalls at 23-2500 and the power doesn't seem to come in until 3000 and then pulls like a freight train.
In short the cam selection is critical and very subjective. I don't think I would ever go lower then a 112 LSA in a mostly street driven car again. I don't think I would ever run a non-roller setup again either. Nore would I run under 428 cubic inches, but that is just me.
The question you might want to ask is how much vacuum will you have (I would want around 12 or higher), What RPM will you expect to idle at (I would want 800 or lower).
There may be something to the dist setting on my combo. I have the adv coming in very early. I also have alot of overlap but I need it to bleed off some of the pressure. The cams in the 113 and higher range do tend to be much smoother(smooth idle wasn't my aim). Also I only have about 9-10lbs of vac so yes that is something to consider as well. The long and short is there are much better choices of cams than the one I run but I like the way it sounds and like the way it runs so I'll keep it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gas0I47We...lf=mfu_in_order
The close LSA typicly will give a higer peak HP/Torq #s, a wider LSA will typicly give a better average HP/Torq #s.
Close; a tighter LSA increases the communication between the intake and exhaust tracts, accentuating both the beneficial (better scavenging) and bad (idle). Typically tightening up the LSA concentrates the power around the torque peak because the torque peak is usually where the better scavenging occurs. That increases the peak torque reading but usually costs a few hp on the top end.
A wider LSA spreads the power out, making the peak torque lower but boosting the top end a bit. This works well in a street engine that is capable of higher rpm; an LS engine for example.
As you said, there are a lot of compromises to be made in cam selection but I tend toward a tighter LSA on both the street(110-112) and the race engines I build (road course and oval - as low as 102).
2012 Mustang Boss 302 #1918, Competition Orange. FGF replacement 2006 Mustang V6 Pony, Vista Blue. Factory ordered. 2019 BMW X3 (Titled to the wife, but I'm always driving it for her. So I'm claiming it) Old projects, gone but not forgotten: 1967 FB 400, original CA car. After 22 years of work, trashed by the guy who was supposed to paint it. I had to sell it. 1980 Turbo Trans Am 1970 Mustang fastback, 351C 4Bbl, auto 1988 Mustang GT, 5 speed 1983 F-150 4x4, built 302 1994 Chevy K2500 HD 4x4, 454 TBI
I actually ended up not making it to the machine shop before the engine was placed in my mechanic's truck to be brought back to Tampa. Grrrrrr.... I do trust Ken Keefer's work, though.
Hope to have some positive updates for the forum in just a few days!
1968 Firebird 400 Convertible Original: Engine, Intake manifold, Heads, Body, Stereo, 3.08. THM400. Engine rebuilt by Ken Keefer early 2012. New: Holley 4bbl 670 HP, hidden iPod setup, RobbMC mini starter, A/C, front disc brakes
True. Ken doesn't have a Dyno. Would've had to have driven it an hour out, paid $400 to speed world, etc. I'll be just fine Though I will throw it on a rear wheel dyno. I do have 'before' stats from one of those!
1968 Firebird 400 Convertible Original: Engine, Intake manifold, Heads, Body, Stereo, 3.08. THM400. Engine rebuilt by Ken Keefer early 2012. New: Holley 4bbl 670 HP, hidden iPod setup, RobbMC mini starter, A/C, front disc brakes
Car was running as of this morning! Mechanic still has it but had me take it for a spin.
We are all very disappointed in the performance - and think it is the strangely behaving Monster Transmissions 200-4R. It is upshifting quickly, not kicking down... not getting a good punch. Feels like a 200hp car but the engine seems solid. TV cable can't get tighter. Earlier in this saga, there were problems with my first Monster 200-4R, which they eventually replaced. This is behaving similarly.
My car, even with the engine having torn all bearings through the copper, felt strong and like it wanted to 'go' with the THM400. I wanted overdrive (I do lots of highway, and even with a 3.08, 75mph = 3000rpm = heat = wear & tear = gas = etc)... the deeper 1st and 2nd gears were also desirable.
We are having a local transmission expert check it out this week. He will either be able to modify the config or suggest I go back to the THM400 and just deal with the RPMs. Much as I do not trust the machine shop that had the engine before Ken, I have limited faith in Monster at this time.
Also getting a lot of tapping noise from the new roller rockers. Not sure if they are making contact or loose. Chatting with Ken Keefer tomorrow.
1968 Firebird 400 Convertible Original: Engine, Intake manifold, Heads, Body, Stereo, 3.08. THM400. Engine rebuilt by Ken Keefer early 2012. New: Holley 4bbl 670 HP, hidden iPod setup, RobbMC mini starter, A/C, front disc brakes
I didn't think the 200 4R had a switch, that up and down shifts were controlled with the TV cable? Regardless, I was hoping you would have better news today.
That tapping noise is probably the lifters not the rockers. Just to be sure you should set them again. I've had them pop off of the pushrod before and you'd almost swear the motor blew. Ask Ken if he installed anti piump lifters. They tend to be alot noisier.
The car is finally back home!! (9 freakin' months later!!)
Did a good 40 miles on it tonight. Reasonable temperatures, RPMs, behavior.
The transmission still is super weak - wimpy shifting, wimpy downshift, etc... That will be a fact of life until surgery or swapping back to my THM400.
I'll update photos soon!
1968 Firebird 400 Convertible Original: Engine, Intake manifold, Heads, Body, Stereo, 3.08. THM400. Engine rebuilt by Ken Keefer early 2012. New: Holley 4bbl 670 HP, hidden iPod setup, RobbMC mini starter, A/C, front disc brakes
