Ok, I'm happy about it - though, it's slightly possible that I'm focusing my funds on the wrong things first! hahaha

I ordered the front and rear spoilers from NPD. The front was only $29, but then they said I needed a mounting kit for $14, and hardware for $9. I guess I'll see when it gets here in 2 days.

I also ordered the camaro style rear spoiler. I will have to remove the "p-o-n-t-i-a-c" letters from the trunks, and drill some holes. The person on the phone said it doesn't come with the nuts and washers for it - but it should be standard 5/8". Again, will see when I get it.

Right now the car is under 2"+ of snow, and by tonight will be under 6-10". Maybe next weekend I'll be able to start working on it!

My next plan of attack is to work on sanding down the rough (re: rusty) spots in the paint, fillering a scratch here or there, and then take it for a cheapie paint job. Yeah, I know, I know - you get what you pay for, and that paint will have to come off when the car gets restored - but that could be 10 years down the line! After the spoilers and paint, I will be getting tires for my AR 200S rims, and then focus on: exhaust, engine, transmission, suspension, and rear end. Hmm, is that all? Good thing the interior is in good shape! hahaha

Will likely be posting questions when installing the spoilers.

I have both of those same spoilers on my 69....they actually DO help for better handling at higher speeds , you`ll notice if you go 85 or above that steering gets better because of more connection to the road...
yes , the hardware kit helps install fron spoiler , some do it w/o the kit and just use the bolts there, I prefer to use the rods, I`ve hit a few speed bumps w them and no problem , I`ve heard one that did not have the hardware and he cracked it some hitting bumps , later at high speed it just disintegrated and blew off...

if you want to you can mount the rear letters onto the rear spoiler too, just make a template from the trunk , and drill holes...spoiler is 'hollow' so you can get to the back side , just make sure all holes will miss the'braces' on the back before you drill....dont ask how I know! lol
I didnt move the letters , only a 400 emblem...so not 100% that they will line up to miss the braces...

good luck,

If you didn’t want to drill holes, you can use a real good double face tape. I know that this is the low tech and cheap way to go, but, the previous owner of my car did that on the deck lid and its been on there for years. It works great, isn’t noticeable, didn’t put holes in it and isn't permanent.
Just a suggestion.

Cheapy paint job is o.k. as long as you enjoy the car. Prep the car for paint well and that cheapy job will come out pretty decent.Good prep work is most of the battle.You will find it is easier to pick up all the little things along the way first if that is what your budget allows. You either get them as you go along or after you do the big $ work, either way that money is going to come out of your pocket at some point.Bjorn, he has a 68' so his "pontiac' letters are on the lid unlike your 69's being on the tailpanel.

David

Hi Ashtray!

Your car sounds like mine. Good interior but there are mechnicals that need attention.

Instead of rebuilding my quirky 2-speed, I replaced it with a 700R4. if you think you are going to drive your car a lot, especially on the highway for long stretches, consider this swap.

http://www.p-s-t.com is good for bushings, shocks, and bars.

http://www.espo.com is good for front/rear springs and mounting hardware.

Good luck and keep me posted on your 'bird!

Have done the same myself with both spoilers, but swapped the rear for a 69 TA a few months back and am happy with it. Kept the camaro one as a back-up cause the paint matches and it fits perfect.

Use that front kit, my friend! Use the rods and the new hardware, the **** thing flitters around like paper at over 80 MPH without the rods, so use them!
Also agree with 68 BLKBRD, if you don't want to drill you can find good adhesive tapes to hold the rear spoiler down, not nearly as much force or pressure on the rear spoiler. I made the mistake of drilling and had to get a new trunk lid when I converted to the 69 TA spoiler. If I'd used the tape I could have cleaned it up and used same original trunk for the new spoiler.

Nothing wrong at all with getting these two inexpensive snazzy pieces first, cause the "money-pit" will beckon for much more down the road! Oh yeah, just you wait.

I was talking about double face taping the letters, but I guess it would work on the spoiler too. Not a bad idea Nash.
I agree though, the money pit that is a classic car. I know my wife loves it,,,, not! I feel like I am on a debate team when justifying why it’s necessary to spend money on it.
I am trying to get her involved Nash, but it’s hard to convince a 6-month pregnant woman to crawl under a car to replace body bushings with you

As we discussed before just be sure to address your safety issues Ash. I would hate to lose you or that nice bird of yours.
Sounds like you’re in love with your new baby.
I know the feeling

It's hard to get a disinterested partner to help with anything...the trick is to get them interested

Very true Vikki, just having trouble getting the job done lately.

I spent one weekend installing the front half of a two piece brake line in a fully assembled car...under the car, under the hood, under the car, under the hood...it would have taken a fraction of the time with another set of hands to help guide and pull the line around the subframe.

I'm still working on getting that second set of hands out in the garage to help

Ok, where to start?

Before I bought the car I had taken it to Pep Boys and they gave it one of those ebay-point-checks. The thing appeared really good to them. The put it up on the lift, and looked under the hood, and at the brake lines and such. So, with that said, I feel more comfortable driving it around town.

When I bought it, I drove it home 2 hours down Rt 95 - I was doing about 65-70 most of the time - don't think I broke 75mph. That was last summer, and I haven't been on a highway since. I've done 50-55mph in it (in a 50 zone) down this straight 1 lane road about weekly, but apart from that, nothing "high speed" (and I know, 50mph isn't high speed, but it faster than the 25-40 I do "around town").

I'm not sure about double sided taping the spoiler on - with my luck it would fall off, and there's $120 down the drain when the guy behind me runs it over.

Front spoiler - happy I ordered the mounting kit to go with it - hope they send me the right part.


As for the money pit - I've "taken care" of that issue with the wife by using my own personal money to work on the car (I teach guitar lessons after work 2 nights/week). So, the wife can't complain too much, b/c it's my money I'm spending, not "family money". That being said, I still haven't gotten the heat fixed, and it's been a cold winter! After 10-15 minutes it doesn't feel as bad b/c your body warms up the inside a bit, but before that, it's pretty cold in there. Maybe I'll call the mechanic this week to see if he can take a look at that!

Smitty - thanks for the links. I do need to get the suspension looked at at some point b/c the thing tends to wander a bit, and over any bump it creaks and thumps. Ride quality isn't so great either (except when the road is flat and smooth! hahaha).

Definitely a work in progress, but I guess that puts me in company with 85-90% of the people with classic cars.

HAhahahahah! Ashtray, you and I have the same heater. If I want to turn up the heat, I go to the gym before getting in my car.

This is the first time I've "done" a car like this. Usually I drive a reliable McVehicle (I have "Super Size Me" playing in the background as I write this) but this is the first "worthy" fixer-upper I've ever had. I can quote almost exactly from memory every penny that I spent on maintenance for the 89 Honda I had until 2000. Now with my 'bird, I hide from myself that I'm tempted to spend the almost $30 (!) for that silly gas flap spring from Classic Industries.

My advice is to spend your money wisely. For the first few months I couldn't walk into AutoZone without spending $50 on stuff. $20 of which was fluff that wasn't all that necessary.

SHOP HARD FOR PARTS! I'm getting ready to convert to front disc brakes and I found a guy that will sell me a 11" booster, spindles calipers etc (a comparable kit to C.I.) for $630. That's $200 less than other folks. The catch? The spindles, proprtioning valve, and dust shields are used. The calipers aren't sleeved but they are new. The pads are ceramic, that's a plus.

Trick is to get them started early! My son is five here and my daughter(far right) is seven,even brought in a friend.


David

Thats the best David, must be really cool, when they arent un-jacking the car on you

It is a great feeling! Teach them young, they are sponges and make it fun! Let them get a little hands on.I gave them the cordless and some eye protection and let them help daddy prep the roof frame for paint.Teach them safety,make it fun and don't shoo them away and they will grasp it with the same joy as you.To me the firebird is a family affair now.My plans are to finish mine off and buy two projects hopefully for each of my kids to slowly chip away at over the years.

David

So David, when IS your car going to be roadworthy? Soon I hope. The pic sure looks nice!

Looking at mid to late April hopefully. Temperature is a factor that is impeding progress here ,that and positive ca$h flow lol ,pic is from years ago.

David

Nice thoughts David... That's just the way I have always thought... our son is now 3.5, and we have been taking pictures of him in the drivers seat about every 6 months to a year apart... so we can see him grow up with the Firebird, literally!
Dylan at 6 Mo

I hope to always have them both in my life!

Brett - 67 Drop Top 455!

******UPDATE*******

Waiting on my porch when I got home from work last night was a LARGE box containing front and rear spoilers. ) I think I will try to tackle putting the front one on this weekend.

I can't put the rear spoiler on until I can find a paint can to match "faded red with rust bubbles".

Spoiler Performance Data: (This is based on a '67 Camaro)

No Spoilers: @ 115mph 375 lbs of lift in front, 25 lbs of downforce in rear.

No Spoilers: @ 85mph 200 lbs of lift in front, 10 lbs of downforce in rear.

Front & Rear Spoiler: @ 115mph 330lbs of lift in front, 130#'s downforce in rear.

Front & Rear Spoiler: @ 85mph 175lbs of lift in front, 75lbs of downforce in rear.

Rear Only: @ 115mph 450 lbs of Lift in front, 150 lbs downforce in rear.

Rear Only: @ 85mph 250 lbs of lift in front, 95 lbs of downforce in rear.

Front Only: @115mph 275 lbs of lift in front, 20 lbs of downforce in rear.

Front Only: @ 85mph 120 lbs of lift in front, 10 lbs of downforce in rear

Wow! Those are some serious numbers! Since I'm not taking it above 85mph, the specs for 115mph don't worry me - though very interesting to see. I guess it's a non-linear curve, and I can plot the 2 points and guestimate any effects at 55mph.


But here's my question - which of the above situation is the best for, let's say racing or drag racing? I understand less lift in the front gives you more stability (better control over the steering wheels), and downforce in the rear gives you better traction - especially important at high speeds when the rear end can get squirrely on you.

With the front only setup (like I'll have soon for a month or 2), I should expect no difference in the rear traction at speed, but better response from the front tires. (?) When i get the rear put on, I'll lose a lot of the benefit of the front spoiler from having no spoilers at all, but I'll gain a lot of rear traction?

Let me know if I'm wrong, or not thinking about this the right way - I'm not exactly an engineer.

No wonder I could feel the difference after I added the front spoiler a while after I bought the car and previous owner had installed the rear spoiler only!
and I usually like to travel 90-100mph...it really helped steering the car, now I know why!

Glad you guy's appreciate the data. I would post a link to the article and graphs that these numbers came from but I think yearone.com took it down. I could not find it on their site but had printed a up a hard copy a while back. It was a 4 page article written by Wayne D. Guinn who wrote "Camaro, untold secrets". I have the book but it does not included the spoiler data.

IMO the front only gives the best all around performance, that's why I put it in bold.

Eric -

Was this all in a straight line (like wind-tunnel testing)?

I wish I had a scanner, as I would just scan the article for you guys. The following is some paraphrasing I did from the article:

All this study was done for running in the SCCA Trans Am series. They new speeds would get up to 140 mph on the track and Chevrolet wanted to be certain the Camaro would stick to the track. It was Chevrolet's experience that production cars tend to exhibit front end lift which becomes excessive at high speeds. The Camaro was studied using a scale model in a wind tunnel to determine the base aerodynamic qualities. Then they experimented with various sizes and once the best combination was found they had their style group re-work from a styling point of view for what be put on the Z/28's.

To verify Chev's claims Car Life magazine performed a series of tests on a '69 Camaro with various spoiler configurations. The charts they created, (where I pulled the numbers I posted above) were printed in their June '69 issue.

Very interesting, since I have the spoilers. But I am more concerned with their sexy look, women love these cars, and the spoilers just add to their appeal. Don't get me wrong, Yellowbird, this means GUYS love you in your car too! Goes the same way for both sexes, I,m sure. Man did I just step in it again or what!?

Nash, step away from the manure, clean off your boots!LOL

But I agree ,they DO look sexy