Yes, they were sold on eBay to the person at the beginning of the show for 30k.

Then he sold them for 70k on the show, but all the news articles are saying 65k.

And at the same time, he also bought a rare Corvette that was built on the show from the Fast n Loud crew.


We reached out to A LOT of people in the Pontiac and collector car world between clubs, appraisers, magazines, collector insurance, forums to determine their value... A lot of them felt with the money they needed to put into them, it was too much a risk and wouldn't make any money. I think 25-45k was a realistic purchase price for the way they sat. Anybody want to chime in on what they realistically are worth finished?

We probably could have had a higher selling price had we went to Mecums or other auction, but would have had high selling fee commissions, and the cost to trailer 2 vehicles that don't run to an auction a couple states away hoping that they sell.

FYI- These cars were also for sale in 1998 in Hemmings for a year. Almost sold to a Pontiac collector in Florida, but it fell through.

I think they are worth way more to a collector or museum, exactly where they (supposedly?) are heading.

As others have stated, if it weren't for the VIN numbers, they are worth somewhere in the $25k - $30k range fully restored (each)

The xtra value of being the #1 or #2 cars is WELL UNDER what hyped in that show. (IMHO 50% max increase)

The cost of the restorations will far out-value the cars themselves.

Whomever bought those cars for north of $600k has way more money than they could ever use.

My latest thought is "if" they are going to ND as stated, OIL money from fracking has got to be involved. They will never recoup (pun intended) that investment.

sw:

I feel your you man - with all you put into those two cars, hanging onto them, chasing down info, trying to gauge interest, trying to find somebody to do them right over all that time...

it should have been YOU selling the cars to the Monkeys and making some TV-like crazy $$$.

There are a few elements that are common to all auto restore related "reality" shows. In my opinion all of the shows would be better off without them. These are
1) Time Constraint - Supposedly makes for drama for the audience, but everyone I know that watches any of these shows finds it annoying.
2) The little quiz panels that pop up periodically. Who doesn't know that the early Pontiac trucks had a Native American in profile wearing a massive headress as their hood ornament. The segment itself drastically reduces the cool factor of these shows.
3) The rediculous prices paid at every level. $8800 for a 57 Chevy 4 door with a smashed fin on the passenger side. Stupid.

Of all the car related shows I like FnF the best. The personalities of the guys on the show are the easiest to handle. They're loose and have a way of slinging barbs at each other that shows the regard they have for each other.

The personnel on all the other shows aren't enough to keep me interested. I'd rather see the cars than the contrived drama.



The show about the pickers is the worst of them all. These guys are driving around in a 20 mpg van to all parts of the country spending all day just finding enough trinkets to put into their store. Even the big stuff only will yield a couple hundred $ profit, after transport, handling, displaying and waiting for someone to come along and buy. The real money is made from the TV show itself.

As a weekend warrior mechanic without the space or tools or experience to do this stuff, not to mention the patience, I like seeing snippets of what goes into the restores, and the "Art" part of it. To me it takes a lot of balls to chop and channel a car that is one of just a small number of remaining examples of the same.

Rickybobby

I like Counting Cars the best out these shows.

Steve

I agree. I don't know how these clowns get access to these vehicles and all of the true experts of the field get left out of the equation. You mentioned Scott Tiemann, I would have liked to have seen Jim Mattison and PHS (Pontiac Historical Services) involved somehow. PHS's work on the 4,000 original mile Ram Air II Green Gen 1 Firebird was nothing short of amazing, as was their work on the 1976 T/A that sold for $200k plus at the Mecum action this year.

Is Scott the guy with the 1969 TA convertible (white with blue stripes)? If so, I met him at an acclaimed auto show he brought his car to a while back.

lots of first time posters weighing in on this subject

Scott restored Jim's Plum Mist '67 Ram Air I that was documented in a very old two-part High Performance Pontiac article back in 1999. I hold onto those two issues so I know for sure he was involved. I have also read other HPP articles on concours Pontiac restorations he has been involved in - especially rare 2nd Gen Firebirds.

I was totally unaware that PHS actually works on (or restores) cars. I find that fascinating considering I thought they were only involved in the paperwork end of things.

No they actually hold onto a fairly significant garage, and have a ton of amazing restorations that they've done in-house. Jim Mattison personally over saw the 4,000 mile Ram Air II Green Car. It was his personal baby for years. He bought it as a barn find, and once he discovered what it was, he paid the guy more than asking price for it. Good company, and great workmanship. They don't do much in their own garage, but they surround themselves with the best paint/body guys, interior guys, etc. Guys that do the job right. His 76 TA that went for $200k + was amazing.

Here is a link to their FB page with some of their cars and auction events:

https://www.facebook.com/PhsMusclecars

Yea, I did a search on the subject and this forum popped up on the first page. The 67/68 Firebird is one of my all-time favorite cars, and I wanted to see what everyone else was saying about these clowns. Anyone that knows anything about cars cringes when the G Monkey Garage hack these things together.

And, FWIW, I'd love to have some weird German dood that I could 1960s - 1970s Cadillacs to by the pound. I don't believe for a second that anyone pays anywhere close to $6-10K for an unrestored 70s era Bonneville/Cadillac/Lincoln.

X2
[censored] MONKEYS could never do that level of work, not even in TV land.

427 , sent you a PM with 2 quick questions about Bird #3
If you could check , thanks.

Hello SW , if you dig out those pictures from back then that would be really cool.

Did your dad ever say - or know - if the GM Exec he bought the Convertible from was the Original Owner ?
Was the title dated Feb 1967 ?

Also - do you know if the same GM Exec had also owned the #2 Hardtop at anytime ?
Or know how the guy kept track of it ?

It appears the Hardtop spent more time in Michigan than it did in Arizona.
It seemed to be in just as much or more despair than the Vert that stayed in Michigan all along.

The PHS Billing Cards have some hints that 001 and 002 may have had some additional connection.

Any and all of the back-story you could share would be very very interesting.
You already have us up to speed from about 1990 up to now.

Thanks man !

That's correct. It was 4th off the line and it was a 68 vert 350HO. Owner sold the original engine 1 year before I found her. He wanted $3500 for the shell and I thought it was too high. Another guy here in Alberta bought it about a year ago. I had call to see if it was still available ... missed by 2 weeks.

Think it's worth anything more than any other 68 vert? Got the pics still and the PHS docs.

I was out looking for the last 69 TA vert at the time. Found out later it was sitting in a warehouse back east.

The odd thing about the coupe I could never understand is that when it was in a photo shoot in AZ at a car show ,it looked really nice and was silver. Then not long after that it was all apart,half painted a worn out red,and a basket case. w a fresh rebuilt motor

Hmmm...All this interest over the first and second Firebirds off the assembly line has made me wonder if there would be some way of identifying what was the last "First Gen" Firebird built?

For some reason I could not get it on my Bell satellite, altho I get other fast n loud episodes...anyone know of a link for the show??? Looked but only found small bits

Funny, I asked this same question on this site about two weeks ago. My '68 Aleutian 'vert was built July 11, 1968. Has to be near the end of the line for '68 models.

Let's just say you didn't miss much...

Yup, he nailed it. Just a lot of hype and no real info or good footage of the rebuild.

Both will be show next Monday night. The repeat from the week before is always at 7 pm Central and the new one at 8.

Or uses his PHS company as a source to scoop up rare Pontiacs.

"No they actually hold onto a fairly significant garage, and have a ton of amazing restorations that they've done in-house".......I was surprised that they werent interested in buying them. They were out there for the taking on more than two occasions.

I found your site when looking for info on the 001 vin 1967 Firebird

I also found this site with an article by Mike Noun on Pontiac production
He has some nice photos with a few 1967 Firebirds

Is this Mike Noun phote/article correct?

http://www.musclecarfilms.com/Pontiac_Production.html

Funny thing is that one photo shows what looks like a white or light color Firebird convertible with a black top and it is labeled "first off the line"

Very, very interesting. Perhaps people at Hot Rod are watching either our thread here or the one over at PY. I say "busted".

Joec58: Speaking of that blog over at PY, that photo you are referring to was picked apart over the past couple of days by Baron Von Zeppelin who posted on this thread back a page or 2. He reviewed the cars in that photo and noted none of the options shown on the cars in the photo match the list of options for VIN 001 or 002. BVZ also noted there were no Big Wigs in the photo as shown for the Firebird milestone picture and that also would be kinda strange if that were indeed the 1st Firebird off the assembly line.

PY 1st/2nd Firebird Thread Page 5

The first 10 cars [with show on trim tag]were often pulled off the line to get a better fit or finish. Cars with "issues" fell into the same category The first car off the assembly line did not mean VIN #1 , the Pontiac "experts" should know better than that.

Yes, those old factory photos could cause some confusion to a casual viewer now that the World knows what 001 and 002 really are. The uncropped version actually has a medium/dark colored Hardtop with Vinyl Top car ahead of the light colored Vert. And then 2 more Birds behind the Vert.

Mike Noun is just sharing pictures from his archives.
Its been on there for years already - its not a recent addition.
Someone else - years and years ago - laid the claim to its contents.
Its been used in some books also.

A slew of explanations could be applicable to the conflict the pictures create.
427King listed a good one - and there are several more - including the actual accuracy of the photos themselves.
Just a grain of salt in a big salt shaker.
001 and 002 VINs are as strong of identity as one could hope for.

I would have liked to have been in financial position to buy the pair while they were on eBay.
Thought they would have brought 50-75k back then.

300 or 325k for them as they were seems ....... a tad bit inflated ...

Hot Rod Magazine sure got HOT didn't they !

I wondered back then - what the frenzy would have been like if 001 and 002 1967 Camaro 's were the candidates being offered on eBang.

307 Camaro Vert - otherwise identical to 001
350 SS Hardtop - otherwise identical to 002

200 k ?
300 k ?
gazillion k ?

National News coverage
Internet Virals
etc...

the 1967 Camaro 0001 vin was on ebay about 5 years ago
It was an old drag car with a tilt nose tubbed roll bar needed complete restoration
vin and trim tag were still on it
they were asking $75k but I think it sold for much less then that

here is the link
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=155777&highlight=001+vin&page=5

Yes, definitely room for ethical conflict.

I had a chance to buy the #1 camaro, just had to accept the offer . In the end I passed mostly because 1]the cowl ID was gone due to race modifications, less importantly it was a stripped 6 cyl, and I figured there could be debate as to if the Van Nuys #1 car was the first. The body # on the #1 camaro was in the 200+ range While the firebirds were a little rough, the camaro was hideous.. Not because Im a chevy person ,but there is a pecking order and the camaro is going to do better than the firebird equivalent,no doubt about it . The corvette, being built at one plant only and therefore without multiple #00001 vin cars, in addition to the moniker, would command a massive price tag...Now, had I bought the #1 camaro and had it when i found the #1 firebird,that would have really been quite a pair to see together .

On the 67 Birds - all of them were built at the same 1 plant - only Lordstown (U) .
6 cylinders and V8's
The 6's would have had their own 001 VIN car too , like has already been said.

In 68 Van Nuys (L) began doing Birds too.
I don't know enough about Camaros to know if Lordstown was exclusive on Camaro in 67 as well.

In case anyone wonders - part of why that 6 cylinder 001 Camaro had a body number of 200+ range is
the Fisher body build numbers didn't have any basis related to the engine like VIN did.
They just ran consecutive body numbers right through them all.
So that plant did roughly 200 +/- V8's before they did a 6.

Thanks to you guys for the information about the1967 001 6cyl Camaro. ; )
That would have been a wild wild pair to have had an 001 Bird and Camaro together !

In 68 there would have been potential for at least 3 , or 4 , different 001 Birds and Camaros.

the body number on the 00001 vin Camaro is 860
that is a high number as there are other 67 Camaros with a much lower body number
in the thread I posted there are pics of the tags and one member posted his Camaro with a 00068 vin and 245 body number

another thing I find interesting is that you don't see photos of the 00001 vin cars very often.
Weather its the first ever Camaro Firebird or any of the other GM 1st year of the model cars.
I recall some of the first Corvette but not of others

"in the thread I posted there are pics of the tags and one member posted his Camaro with a 00068 vin and 245 body number" That was a car I owned at one time.

The first 10 cars off the line were not necessarily all SHOW1 cars..in fact, it is well documented that Show1 cars were dispearsed throughout the run.

Do you have documentation that the first 10 Firebirds were in fact Show1 trimmed cars? Or are you being "general"? The same question goes for VIN 1-10 as they came off of the line.

There is no specific documentation that I have seen, know of, personally talked to people "in the know" and have spoke to people who have worked on the assembly line. No documentation that I know of exists.

As well, SHOW1 on the trim tag SPECIFICALLY meant (and for no other reason) was for hand picked parts, better fit, finish specifically for auto shows.

Just making sure supposition and conjecture isn't clouding fact.

I watched both shows tonight (repeat of Episode 1) and the total baloney was so much tougher to sit through the 2nd time.

Now for the nitpicking: (as they are doing such a “concours restoration”). As we said last week, is sure looked like POR 15 on the sub frame and there was the comment over at PY that red oxide primer was not used on 1st Gen F-bodies. When I saw them struggling to get the trunk floor into the coupe – I was looking for the very nasty rear quarters that warranted replacement anyway? I did not see it.

Now Part 2: What was up with the cliffhanger from last week about the misfire on Car 1? Somebody "detuned" the carb? On purpose? Next, the team “is way behind” so we fire two guys and we have other guys messing with the ’49 Mercury. Right. Whaaaaaat? And what’s up with that Mickey Mouse shimming of the passenger door? And having 1 guy repaint the markings on the fuse box for Car #2 “because that what concours judges are looking for” on a car built with Chinese and Taiwanese reproduction parts? Finally the inspection: The “experts" are picking over the shifter ball and the alternator numbers when a totally incorrect 400 pancake air cleaner is staring them in the face on the 326 HO? We could probably go on and on.

And this is only the stuff we see. We have already read and heard all of the other garbage about "barn find" or "hand built" and "pre-production" and "worth $400 K as is" ... This is TV - how on earth do we now that it was really 60 days elapsed time? How do we know if the minute the director yells "cut" that the Monkeys leave to go have beers and a team of 50 real restoration experts descend upon the shop and work on the cars off camera after they have signed non-disclosure agreements?

I swear the world’s biggest joke of an oxymoron is “Reality Show”.

"The first 10 cars off the line were not necessarily all SHOW1 cars..in fact, it is well documented that Show1 cars were dispearsed throughout the run."..............I never said that if youd read better . I said the first 10 cars with show on thier trim tags....

The first 10 cars [with show on trim tag]were often pulled off the line to get a better fit or finish. Cars with "issues" fell into the same category The first car off the assembly line did not mean VIN #1 , the Pontiac "experts" should know better than that.