Can you identify a 400 car by the vin alone? PHS not available on some late production 68's and this is one, so I'm told, not verified. Story is for some reason they just didn't make it to microfish. I know about the obvious clues. What can the numbers guys tell me about this car?

No. PHS would tell you. Not true about late cars and PHS. I have a third week of July 68 car and no problem with PHS. Any story like that is crap. My car has to be one of the very last off the line.

Who is telling the story? The seller or PHS?

The seller. He had a voice mail from phs, not sure if it was Jim or not. He should get something in writing eventually I would think. So what about the vin?

Can you tell if it was the same plant? The VM indicated it was specific to that plant.

So 68tpls400 will have to weigh in on the plant, that VIN indicates Van Nuys(L) and the 1 in the 8th place indicates that it was a V-8 car. But it could have been either a 350 or 400. That is where PHS, if available, would be the deciding factor.

LOR

Maybe I'm Wrong, I'm just asking, doesn't that last 5 make it an early production car? Mine is january and its 36xxx for the last 5. Neill

Looks like 10605, so not too early?

That's a Van Nuys car, not a Lordstown car.

Never heard of such a thing as "some late 68's" invoices were lost. Sounds like the seller is trying to make up a story because it might not be a 400 car, however, Pontiac started stamping blocks with a partial VIN in 1968, so I would think that if the block VIN matches the vehicle VIN, and it's a 400, that's a probable 400 car. Of course, people restamp blocks, etc., but at least this is the first step.

Mike

Lordstown built cars have a U in the Vin instead of the L pictured.

Yes, the OP's car is a Van Nuys car. 68tpls400 has a Lordstown built car from the same time frame and PHS noted no issues with documentation on microfiche. So, the question is this an issue with Van Nuys built cars of that time frame. I'm assuming the OP is waiting for confirmation from PHS on this.

Sorry for the delay. Well I asked (text) the guy about getting something in writing and he replied that phs has a fax service and a mail service, he did the fax service and didn’t get a fax back only the phone call. Sure, whatever. I suggested he get something in writing. I did not think to look at the engine partial vin but that’s a really good idea. Here’s the kicker, some idiot (he claims the previous owner) removed the trim tag! So yeah, all signs point to a 350 car. There is no good reason to remove that tag, only bad ones.

Now,,, all that aside,,, the car has good bones, far from perfect but you all know what a challenge some of us here have faced bringing back one of these cars. The body is straight, the paint is ok, somewhat older paint with blemishes and some minor rust showing up. The paint is showing enough age with scratches and chips that I think it is several years old. I would say 5 or more rather than 3 or less. That tells me the worse kind of rot may not the case under the paint. The floors look good albeit I did not inspect on a lift. The trunk looked ok but I was suspicious about some lifting of the trunk paint but I did not pick at it. Looked like it probably had a little surface rust and then repainted. It has a healthy sounding engine, healthy lope and crisp throttle response. Complete Edelbrock top end, some huge headers, bigger than my Dougs, a 200r4, a 12 bolt, a line lock, and sub frame connectors, oh and a rear sway bar. Behind the headers the exhaust is new but super cheap and with turn downs, no tail pipes. Obviously somebody raced this car. The interior was decent with new front seat covers, new carpet, new headliner, and the rest was presentable, sans the console. Something was wrong with the power steering as it had no power assist but the upper control arm bushings looked to be in good shape. I didn’t ask to drive it.

I think it was a well kept car at some point, nice paint, raced, garaged. Not sure why whoever had it let go of it but this guy has only had it a few months. So for practicality’s sake, what’s an undocumented 350 car in this condition worth? It has a 400 hood, badges, grill inserts, bumper arrow, the trunk has a GTA spoiler like Kel’s, with the trunk lettering but not the 400 emblem.
Here's his CL ad:
http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/4820209364.html

Nice looking driver. That would be on the upper end of the food chain for a 350 car. Just my opinion it would need to be a little cleaner to get in that price range.

Trunk seal

left rear

trunk

weird plate size blemish on roof

right fender/door

dent

rear window

stress cracks (bilaterally)

3 thoughts would bug me. 1) If I were setting up a Firebird to race, I probably would not use a Pontiac 350 motor. Or does he mean a SBC? 2) The ad says 510 hp which would be a level for a healthy 455 let along a 350 Pontiac. 3) If he set it up for racing, did he actually race it and did he bend anything?

Both the interior and exterior look good.

left door, looks like they sanded to fix something and ?

fender?

?

hole in nice floor

Take a good look at the pics. I was fairly kind calling out the blemishes in the earlier post. Regarding the 350 motor, he says its a 400 car and a 400 engine. I did not verify what it was engine wise.

All I could look at was the original CL ad. Access to Photobucket is banned at my work, so I will try and see the photos later tonight.

Take a look when you can and tell me what you think its worth.

I own a bodyshop and can say with confidence that the left side pictures of the quarter panel and lower fender are old repairs that are rusting through again, One other pic looks like the door bottom rusting through as well. Get a quote for repairs before making an offer. Nice looking car though. Neill

I took a look at all the close-ups and I am now leaning toward "RUN AWAY". You are in Texas and would have access to low or no rust FGF's locally. That paint looks really thick and like it's hiding a lot. Add the questionable 400 claim, missing trim tag, strange info from the owner about the PHS docs, and the admission that the car has been raced...

I would pass. I think I understand why the present owner has only had it a couple of months - he was not happy about what he has found.

They are not as easy to find as one might expect.

I thought of another reason for avoiding PHS docs. They could show this car spent most of it's existence in a more rust prone location before being brought to TX. Saw the same issue when looking for my car in So Cal. Came across an FGF there with patched areas in the rear fenderwells and asked about them. The seller pointed out the car had only recently been brought to CA from New Jersey.

If you are really serious about purchasing this one - I highly recommend checking on the PHS docs for yourself.

Thanks for the replies guys, all of them. Well, albeit limited, with the information and pics provided whats a safe number to get in the car? 2k? 5k? 8k? 10k? 12k?

My thinking was $8 K but I would be willing to go $10 because of the very nice interior and "strong" motor. I will advise caution though, as his CL ad provides clues that he has already received a lot of what he considers "low ball" offers and he is unhappy about them.

That statement about "great shape absolutely free of rust" suggests some strong denial. That and the fact that he admits being into the car for $27 K. It's going to take him a while to realize that he made a very uninformed large purchase and he is not going to get out of a significant loss. Unless he is very lucky and another extremely uninformed buyer shows up - which is what he is wishing for.

Me thinks he is trying to do a quick flip and make some cash....Did he say how much he purchased it for?

Since he has only had the car a couple of months, I figure the $27 K "he is into the car" was his purchase price. Of course, he could be exagerating.

I'll admit that I did not look at the CL ad but just going off the posted pics I'd say there is a lot of plastic on that car. I would begin making a list of how much you think it will cost to get it where you would be comfortable with it and adjust you purchase price accordingly. Chances are the two numbers won't even be in the same universe. On top of that no trim tag!! Run away. Somebody stole something. Just saying.