I just picked up a 1969, 428 four bolt main engine with 62 heads
So my question is I want to build something with 450 to 500+ horse. The stock is engine I believe is 370 or 390 horse dependent on the exhaust manifolds and a couple other things. So the question becomes is it really worthwhile to add aluminum heads they seem to be pretty good heads
I also have a 68 400 block that had 61 heads, so I’m kind of debating which engine to go with. I’m leaning towards the 428 for the bigger cubes and the 4 bolt mains. but again ant issue is are aluminum heads really worth the investment? I was pretty much set on getting the aluminum heads, but I have heard nothing but good things about the heads that are on this engine.
Also, recommendations on a cam would be appreciated. I already have a Fi-tech fuel injection system that is going to go on this. I plan on adding an intake manifold haven’t made that decision yet either
Would love to hear everybody’s comments on this!
Thank you!!

what is your goal with the car?
I have been building Pontiacs since 1987 and everything from a dead stock numbers matching build to a 8 second drag race car.
Do you want a car that you can just get in and turn the key and go and drive on the highway or just cruise around town once and a while?
I have built some killer 400 inch pontiacs using the original cast iron heads that just had rebuilt with new valves and springs and guides that would run pretty [censored] hard and beat most of the mustangs on the road.
Also have built many aluminum head 455 + cubic inch engines with roller cams....etc
I also have installed many EFI systems on cars and are quite familiar with all of them. Depending on which FiTech system you have and your current fuel system it may only good enough to support 400 HP at most.
What is your goal and your budget?

Thanks Big Chief!!!

I would like to be able to hop in and drive the highways, I am in California and like to hit the road! I want power and dependability. I am setting up like a Pro touring car, power on demand and road handling. I am not looking to do a numbers matching car as mine was one of the few Firebirds PHS did not have anything on!
I dont plan to race but you cant go anywhere here without running into the many Mustangs and Mopars.
I have 2 engine choices, I have a 400 Block that has been at a rebuilder that shut down during Covid but is back and in operation. A lot of how I think has changed. The 400 is already bored decked and supposedly parts were bought for it. At issue is they "misplaced the 61 heads that it had, They are replacing. I really did not have it stroked or anything but going with forged pistons etc. The heads were supposed to be ported, polished and bowl matched. I have a performance RPM manifold, I do have the higher rated EFI for up to 600 HP (Go EFI 4), but only as I had to do that to get the "Tumble polished" Color
Petronix Ignition conversion, Tomahawk Windage try,
Comp Cams
Cam specs are
224/230@050,
.477/.480 lift on a 110 lobe separation angle
It was just a mild rebuild but not sure if I am going to get even 400 HP out of that.

A friend of mine offered me a decent deal on a 428
Pontiac 428 Engine originally from a
1969 Grand Prix SJ.
Standard bore 4-bolt main
428 code XF and block casting number 9792968
This 428 has been completely disassembled, cleaned, measured and inspected than reassembled and now sits on an engine stand.
Engine details.
1969 # 62-cylinder heads high perf
correct 69 intake
correct 428 distributor
all parts are date coded within a2 week period

I know i have a lot of parts already for the 400 but I have been leaning towards the 428, maybe more out of frustration at the time it has taken for the 400 to be completed or the novelty of a bigger cubic inch engine

I have a lot of people telling me regarding both engines to stroke it and or at the minimum get aluminum heads. I have been talking with a gentleman from San Diego, John who has been a wealth of information for me as well!
I never thought of myself as any type of real purist but I find it hard to just dump the 61 & 62 heads, although there may be an issue with too high a compression ratio with todays gas.
I would love the horsepower but for me this will not be a 1/4 Mile drag car but one that can do the winding roads and still have the lower end stay together! a lot of low end and mid range
I also want to keep in mind I may convert to a 5 speed
I don't have an unlimited budget but i do have funds to go forward and can just put the 400 together with what they already have and put aside for another project
I don't need to build the 428 with the parts I already have for the 400 other than the fuel injection, those parts were paid for a few years back

I would love to see around 425 to 450 HP if possible with the cast iron heads but will go with Aluminum if necessary but do not want to wait months for the heads

Thank you!
Berndude

Whats your budget?
You do realize the cost to purchase Edelbrock heads and everything associated with installing them (head bolt kit, pushrods, rocker arms, gaskets...etc) will be around $4000-$5000 alone.
These days the cost of rebuilding an entire pontiac engine by doing an actual rebuild with all new pistons....etc and quality machine work is around $9000 for starters.
There are places that say they can do it cheaper but you get what you pay for.
then there is the wait time of a few months because machine shops are backed up with tons of work.

1 do understand the costs. Just had a quote from Butler.
The 428 is 360 to 390 HP stock. I have been leaning towards using the 62 heads that came with it but the feedback I’m getting is my compression would be too high. Supposedly this doesn’t need a board job. The guy who had bought it from has been pretty honest, and had to disassemble the engine prior to my purchase. So the reality of it is it would not be too bad if I’m able to reuse the existing pistons. I do know the crank is good pressure is good but will have everything checked over professionally. The heads are going to cost some money, whether I keep them The same or go with aftermarket I will attempt to attach the Butler quote shortly. Butler quoted 11 to 13 months which I can’t really wait finding that heads are going to be the issue so right now I’m open as far as budget goes and I do understand it will not be cheap .

428 Non stroker[img]https://firstgenfirebird.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/20119/filename/428 Non Stroker.jpg[/img][img]https://firstgenfirebird.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/20120/filename/428 non stroker 2.jpg[/img]

428 Stroker
[img]https://firstgenfirebird.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/20121/filename/428 Stroker.jpg[/img][img]https://firstgenfirebird.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/20122/filename/428 Stroker 2.jpg[/img]

Do they provide dynamic numbers with the engine? Regardless of stroker or non-stroker...

I do not know that answer
Do you mean numbers like on a dump? I know they do offer running them on a Dino when complete if you have them build it.

I seen to many engines that made supposedly 500 hp on a dyno not be able to make it out of the 13's and 109 mph.

When you add it all up you can get The LS3 connect and cruise package from a GM dealer with a manual 6 speed and be ahead of the game and still have a warranty.

Sounds interesting! What’s the cost and where do I find info??
I am not a die hard purist but have always loved Pontiac Engines!

Do you have any buddies that work at a GM dealership. Im sure they can hook you up.

I'm in California, our Governer only allows us tro buy Tesla's!!!

Sorry, I meant actual dyno numbers, autocorrect got me. You’ve answered my question.

Apparently autoe correct got me too?? LOL!!!

FWIW, I just completed a rebuild on my 67' 400 engine. I estimate that the rebuild, including parts, labor, etc. cost me $6,500. This was with considerable sweat equity and working every angle to keep the costs down. Rebuilding these cars is a labor of love and you'll rarely get your money back if you want to sell the car in the future. I am not sure that I would do it again as buying a crate or rebuilt motor would have cost just a bit more but would have saved me time, effort and stress. This said, you cannot find many 400 or 428 cast iron engine blocks that are worth rebuilding and no aftermarket blocks for Pontiacs like what you can get for a Chevy. While you can lighten the overall drivetrain weight with aluminum heads, the cast iron heads perform well if you can restore them. And aluminum heads are expensive. The old saying that "there is no replacement for displacement" may lead you to want to rebuild the 428 but there are certainly good options for rebuilding a 400 as well.

Thanks Scott!!
Actually, finding Aluminum heads is an issue right now. I don't plan on selling, that will be my kids issue after I am gone LOL!!!
You are correct, A crate engine is really not much more but I do love the Pontiac engines. I do believe Butler does offer an aftermarket Block, but beyond my desire. The 428 has 4 bolt mains so i am looking at that more than the 400 engine.

Heads are expensive, but they do seem to do a lot but I am not looking to build a real high horsepower but fast and dependable.

Sincerely
Bernie

Personally I don't think the aluminum heads are worth it, from the simple reason that they are based on Pontiac HO and RA heads, they're copies. It would be cheaper and look better to have the heads rebuilt, 62 heads are a great head, similar to 16's. For what you want have the motor freshened up, heads redone, go with the Pontiac 068 cam which is the HO, RAI, RAIII cam, the 744 was also a RAI and HO but I saw an article where a guy put the 068, 744, and 041 cams and dyno'd and 1/4 mile'd them, the 744 was the worst. You're building a cruiser & the occasional street blast 0-60, spending 10's of thousands doesn't make sense and neither does an LS swap, I'm a purist and prefer to look under the hood and see a Pontiac motor and heads.

That's my 4 cents