My original '68 hardtop seats are long gone. I have a set of '69 seats with the headrests. They need to be recovered. I never felt the 1960's seats were very comfortable. I also have a set of second gen high back vinyl buckets [1978], a set of Sunfire cloth buckets [1999], a set of 4th gen cloth buckets [1994], and a set of Recaro multi adjustable cloth seats from an unknown year Corvette. I will be using a 6-way power seat base as I do on most of my cars. GM buckets bolt directly to GM power bases almost all the time. So far the width of the power base bolt holes are a match to the '68 threaded bolt holes in the body. The length is too short so I will need to weld an extension to the base to reach all the threaded holes. I tested the power base and found one of the gears was not working. The flexible drive shaft broke at the end so it did not reach the gear. Luckily I have some for parts so I grabbed a longer flexible shaft and cut it shorter to fit the original casing. It worked and now it is 6- way again. I could use any of the GM buckets but I have been saving the Recaro seats for almost as long as I have had this convertible. I want to try to use them first but it does not match the bolt pattern on the GM power base. Since they were in a Corvette the seat base is very thin and flat and you feel like you are sitting on the floor. I took the Corvette base off and bolted it to the power base after drilling some holes. Then the Recaro seat will get bolted to that. I will have 6-way adjust-ability while retaining the forward/back adjustment of the Recaro seat too. If the rain ever stops I can take it out and see which set of holes will work best and then extend the other end to reach the rest. Then I can cut and weld the rest of the Corvette base for a nice clean fit.
I took the power base, semi-bolted the seat to it, and bolted all that to the floorboard. Amazingly the two front feet of the base matched the two front nuts in the floor perfectly. Gotta love GM interchangeability. What I noticed right away was how high the seat sits. The power base adds a couple inches to the installed seat height. On most cars the base bolts right to the floorboards but on 1rst gen birds there is a raised reinforcement that the seat bolts too. That adds another inch. A very tall person would not like this arrangement. I am rather short so for me this is perfect. I prefer a forward leaning upright position especially when working a clutch pedal. I removed all this and continued to cut and weld the adapter frame. Tomorrow I can bolt it all back in and rig some better wiring. I was using a jumper cable from the battery to the seat and it was not working well.
If it's still leaking after replacing one of the hoses I'll tear back into it. But for now I'm going to leave it alone. Turns super smooth with no noise, so if it ain't broke....so have you ever put in modern electric seats in? I picked up some leather seats from a 2014 Toyota avalon with 8 way adjustable, power lumbar and heated seats. All the controls are on the side of the seat except the seat heater controls. I'll have to buy buttons for that and mount them somewhere. But I'm thinking the easiest way would be to just add a sub fuse box since I only have one free slot now. So ground to frame, power to relay then to fuse box. One fuse for control, one for lumbar and one for heat. But I'm not sure if I can wire the passenger seat to the same 3 fuses or if they need there own. I would think you could but then I'm wondering what would happen if you were using them at the same time? Mounting should be pretty simple. The tracks are narrow enough. They sit about the same height if you take the mounting bracket off and bolt the rails directly. Will reinforce with steel plate. Seats are taller but taking the headrest off they should look fine. You foresee any issues?
I started a thread on swapping in power seats. Let me dig it up. Hey, I am a HUGE fan of new model power seats. I think the original seats were a torture device. After a 500 mile trip to see relatives my butt was numb. But here is that lower column bearing I was talking about. I miked the last ball I had and it was 3/16". That is a common size. I have a ton of bicycle parts and a jar of small bearings. I scrounged all the 3/16" ones I could and used them to restore that lower bearing. I cleaned the rust and old grease out, re-greased with Marine grade OMC Triple-Guard blue grease. This bearing is a nightmare. It has three parts and they all want to confound you. You have to grab the part that sticks out and moves and hold it with needle nose pliers. That opens the gap enough to squeeze in the new balls. I used a magnet-on-a-stick and loaded it with balls but make sure you don't use too many. Too many will jam up the bearing and it won't turn. Once full you can press the bearing back into the adapter. The pics are the adapter, bearing race, and the balls, then all put back together. That little thing is not available for love or money so it behooves us to just restore what we have.
I can't find the seats thread. In fact I don't see a lot of old threads, what happens to them? Anyway, I try to take the power seat bases from the 90's GM cars. I had a couple of '95 LaSabres and that model power base is perfect. Just make sure to get the controls. If they are on the seat itself like you have- even better. I have those bases in my '83 Pontiac wagon, my '05 Pontiac Sunfire, and I am putting one in my '68 Firebird. The cool thing is that almost all GM seats will bolt right on the power bases. I have '94 Formula seats in the wagon, stock seats in the Sunfire. The '68 seats will NOT bolt up to that base. No big loss. I have been saving a set of Recarro seats for the convertible but they don't bolt up either. I welded up an adapter and mounted the driver seat to the Buick power base. That base actually fits two of the stock Firebird holes. I will drill and bolt the two others to the floorboards with backing plates. As for wiring I agree with you. They need separate dedicated lines that can handle the load. I was able to just plug into the stock fuse box on the '83 and '05. But I don't trust the '68 wiring. Since I am running a 10 gauge line to the power top motor I will also use it for the seat. It will have it's own high amp on/off switch and a 30 amp circuit breaker. This base used the controls on the seat like you have but I won't use them like that. I need to make a plate to mount them to under the front of the seat. Just reach down and work the controls. Here is the adapter, seat mounted, and my '94 seats in my wagon. By the way, this seat is why I wanted the tilt column. A tilt column combined with a 6-way power seat and you have a super comfortable arrangement.
I hear you brother, I'm getting to old for rough riding cars. Ie. 94 bronco, jeep cherokee. My daily driver is a 16 300s. My All time favorite smooth ride was my 97 and 01 Eldorados
It's funny but the best seat I ever sat in was my Dad's 1995 Saturn. I drove from Pittsburgh to NYC and I felt as fresh as when I started. An amazingly comfortable seat that was. As for that lower bearing it is a shame that it is totally exposed to the elements sticking out of the firewall like that. Later model 2nd gen cars used a plastic cover at the steering box. I wonder if it can be shortened to cover the rag joint and that bearing? Seems like a plan. I found these on Fleabay. I am familiar with the long cover, but check out the short cover.
Yes, and G-bodies used that too. In fact I would guess it was used on all models but I don't know what year they started. After they moved the steering box to in front of the axle it would have been exposed to even more water/debris thrown up by the tires. So they added this cover to protect it better. Ours have the steering box behind the axle. It is between the wheel and firewall but still gets it's share of crud. The round hole would clip onto a hydraulic hose and hold it in position. I am thinking that would fit a 1st gen as long as you cut it so it would not interfere with the firewall.
Hey buddy, what do you use for the moulding where the seams come together like around the doors, trunk lid and windows to tighten up the seals? I've seen kits for sale but they seem kind of pricey. I've also seen rolls of the stuff on Amazon but don't know if that would work or not. Same with the window felt. Surely there is a more cost effective route that the kits online. Thanks again. Getting close. Getting excited. Here's a sneak peak
WOWSERS that looks great! I wish I could paint like that. I did use the aftermarket weatherstripping kits on all my cars. The prices sure have gone through the roof. I think I used SoffSeal but there are a few good companies. Metro, Steele, all good, just research and shop around for the best price. My G-body wagon is particularly hard to find the right weatherstripping. We have tried generic stuff but matching the profile is very hard. For example we found that a Dodge Caravan rear hatch weatherstrip will fit our G-body wagon rear hatch. The window fuzzies are very hard to use generic stuff- the re-pops are best and absolutely necessary. I know mine are all shot. I think you would be best to use a specific good quality kit for your car. This is where less expensive Camaro stuff may fit the bill. I know it is still pricey but you are only doing it once and you want to do it right..
Good idea, I didn't think about looking camaro does seem to be cheaper. Alright, I gotta know, you said your g-body wagon and when I hear this, I see(photo below). Which hey, there's nothing wrong with that, lol.
As if you hadn't heard this enough. I need your help again. With electrical this time. I told you I had got 2014 avalon seats for the bird. It's got heating, cooling, 8 way directional and lumbar. I know I can't run cooling without an ac amplifier and something called a canbus to talk to the climate control. Don't even want to go down that road. But looking at some different schematics I think I should be able to do drivers side power(1 fuse) lumbar (2fuse)passenger power (3fuse)heated seat switch (4fuse)driver heat(5fuse)passenger heat(6fuse) also see photo below. So I picked up a 6 relay sub box(also see photo below). Wired power from battery thru 40 amp fuse to sub box. Negative battery to Negative on sub box. Also see photo. I was expecting once I did this I would have power when I checked my fuses. I've got power at the red and black heading into the sub box but fuses have nothing. So obviously sub boxes don't work like I thought they would. Probably similar to my spark plug set up I thought I understood. Can you take a look and see what I'm missing? Ty sir
That is exactly what mine is, a 1983 Bonneville.But I swapped the nose for a 1981 LeMans nose because it was a last year tribute to the Firebird nose. Funny, but I have had so many station wagons I can't live without one now. Someone always needs something big moved and the wagon does the job. Here is a pic taken back when I was about to drop the Saginaw 4 speed for a rebuild. It has a 1979 Pontiac 301, a Saginaw 4 speed, 1977 TA console, one-year-only 1978 silver gauges, tilt column, Formula steering wheel, a Monte SS posi rear, and 1994 Formula seats. Even the 40 year old AC still works!!!
OK, I get it now. You want all the seat functions to have their own relay. The top schematic shows the 12 volt switched ignition [white] would cause all the relays to be energized any time the ignition was 'ON'. After that I am confused. Those pentagon shaped boxes are the loads or switches on the loads? Are they individual seat functions? Because on my style of seats there are two systems. One is the seat motor and the other is the transmission that determines direction. So when you press the button for the seat to go forward, the motor is energized and the transmission 'forward' position is energized. I would imagine a modern seat still works that way. Are the pentagon 'switches' linked to the round 'seat' diagrams? They don't look to be. And the seats only have a single yellow power wire? Now for the relay box. Are the fuses before or after the relays? The schematic doesn't say. And the two red wires are for three relays each? Test and see. I see the blue wires are always 'ON' and the yellow are 'ON' only when the white wires are closed to power. Are you going to ignore the blue wires or use them for something? I am thinking the relays should be only 'ON/OFF' but if this is what was available I guess just dead end the blue wires? So to use that box you would have all the white wires hooked to 'IGN ON' and the yellow wires rigged to the switched loads on the seats?
Ok, so all that makes it seem a little mire complicated than expected. That schematic is one I found online in a Toyota forum I thought it looked pretty simple but....as far as the pentagon shared boxes, I thought they went to the seat controls(buttons on the side). I'm sure you are correct about how they function. It looked like from what I saw they ignored the blue wires so that's what I was going to do. I believe the relays are before the fuses because I thought that's how it worked. Power to relay to determine amps and if the relay failed, it blew the fuse before damaging the components. Is there an easier way to wire tge seats? I would think nowadays if you power the beginning of the harness, the harness would direct power where uts supposed to go. I'm mean I'm just a simple man and if I designed it that's how I would do it. Just plug your power and negative in here and the rest is taken care of. But this I guess if the designed it that way, anyone could do it and how do you make money that way? Right? Here is a pic of the driver's and passenger seat controls if that helps. If there is an easier way, please let me know
I agree that the blue wire is a problem being hot all the time. It needs to be capped with a wire nut or something so it can't ground out. Fuses are there to protect against short circuits so where they go is dependent on the situation. Think of the car fuse panel. The hot 12 volts goes to the fuse box first. That protects the downstream wiring from shorts. Relays and circuit breakers are between the fuse and the component. The main 12 volt feed from the battery has a fusible link that acts like a fuse. Anyway, take a pic of the underside of the seat showing the motor and transmission plus any wiring. The controls on the side look simple enough: the vertical one is FORWARD/BACKWARD and the horizontal one is UP/DOWN with the other one being the heat and the round one the lumbar. I don't think a friggin' power seat would need a computer to operate.
That would explain the harness with a dozen small wires that was cut. Because since the other controls are on the seat, all the wiring you would need was a red power and a black ground. Is that tube looking thing connected to arms that raise and lower the seat? And is that black rail between the side rails- is that a motor at one end? That would be the fore and aft movement? Is there a big red wire connection that would plug into the whole car harness for the seat power? That yellow connector and wires, is that part of the airbag system? They usually use yellow to warn you about that. That grey round thing with a grille- is that a heat or cold blower?
So those 12 small wires are where they cut them at the salvage yard when they pull them. There is a thick white and thick green. But no red. I'm going to run a fuse between the battery positive and try those two wires for power. If I can get power to the buttons I can tell you exactly what they do. If not I will try to determine from the questions you asked. The fan I know is for the cooling and the wires that go to the right all go to the seat belt. So stay tuned, I'll have some answers in a couple hours
Thanks. Do you have any kids? If so a Happy Father's Day to you too. I used to wash, wax, and vacuum my Dad's car on Father's Day, as that was the only day of the year it got done. White and green? I am not up on Toyota wiring colors but the heavier the gauge the more probable they are for the main power. They may have used the frame bolted to the body for ground or a dedicated ground wire. The older seat bases used a separate motor and transmission, with screw motors lifting and lowering the seat. But looking at this one I think they managed to get the fore and aft movement out of just a motor geared to a rack, kind of like rack steering. The up down looks like a tube/shaft lifts an arm on each side. can you see a motor somewhere on that tube/shaft?
Ok. I'm going to quit experimenting before I f some s up. These pics are of the first button on the controls and where they start and end. The orange and green go to whatever that controls. The whites break of to different connectors one goesback to the box that has the other 3 controls, one goes to what I'm calling the pigtail(where it was cut). And one goes to the blower motor connector.
Then there is this motor and appears to be screw driven maybe. The blue and grey go back to the control box on the side of the seat. Seems like the common theme is big wires go in the big connector and thin wire to small connector. But so far two wire go to big connector and one thin back to small connector
And this motor that has a gear attached to the rod going across. Purple and yellow go to big connector. Thin pink to small connector and thin brown to pigtail connector
So those gears are on the UP/DOWN rod that lifts/lowers the seat? And that small motor going length wise is FORWARD/BACK? Am, I seeing that correctly? Those wire colors make no sense. But the way the motors work is a common ground, then two hot wires, one for each direction, reversing the current gives you two opposite rotations, like a door window motor. So the connector that is right on the motor itself will be two hot wires, one for each direction, and either a dedicated ground wire, or grounded to the frame. I also just realized we are going on about the seat when the thread is about the steering column. You should either start a new thread, or transplant the seat part to the power seat thread. Someone may know more about this seat but not be looking for this because it is in the steering column thread.
I think that's right but without powering it up and testing it I can't be positive. So the two colored wires makes sense, one for each direction. And you are correct the colors make no sense. But all those wires seem to go from the motor to the controls. I don't see a place to power the harness itself. But I know it has to be there.
On the older style seats there was a single orange wire for ignition switched 12 volt power. But it went to the controls either on a door handle or on the seat itself. I agree, there has to be a power wire somewhere. Any empty connectors?
I saw that diagram but wasn't sure how to read it. So you see green and white as hot? Then ground to the frame? Oh and I looked at moving this thread, but have no idea how to.
For some reason I can't post that diagram here. But look at the top where the fuses are. One starts as light green and becomes white, and another starts as pink and becomes light green. But they are hot after the fuse in the dash. Also I looked for the power seat thread I started and I can't find it. There seems to be an age factor where old threads get dropped or something.
