Seems like things have been a little slow on our forum lately, so I thought I’d start a new thread to liven up discussion.
I have owned a High Output Firebird for nearly 48 years. As you can imagine, in that time I’ve worked on or replaced nearly every part or system in the car. I’ve learned a lot about these cars. But what I’ve learned the most is that there’s always more to learn. As I’ve been taking the car to shows the past few years the subject of the HO car continues to come up. I am often asked ‘what is the difference between an HO Firebird and a base Firebird?’ I tell them about the heads of course, and the cam, the heavy duty transmission etc. but as sure as I am that there’s always more to learn, I know that there is more to tell. So…. How bout it? What have the rest of you discovered during your years and research. Differences in: engine, cooling system, fuel system, suspension, brakes and things like production numbers. I’m sure many of you have more to offer on these and more.
In all honesty its just heads and camshaft and maybe some decals. Other than that its just a Firebird that you paid a few dollars more for some options. Take for example the 350 HO The engine just has a tad more compression with those heads than the standard 350 engine. Nothing that is going set the world on fire with performance wise.
The #48 casting heads on a 350 HO had a smaller combustion chamber than the 1969 #48 heads they used on a 400. I have worked on both sets of heads. Pontiac only offered 3 different camshafts for that year and the only real differences were in duration not so much in lift so it was really the RPM range of the engine. Compared to today's camshaft grinds the HO,RA3,RA4 were really in the stone age as far as how the engine runs.
Regarding the other HO, the 400HO engine option; bigchief, I was recently studying what made the a '68 400 engine a 400HO and found that only the manual trans 400HO got a different cam. The automatic still used the 400's cam. Bottom line, the only change I can find for my 400HO w/auto from the 400 is the Long Branches and a different engine code stamp. Do you know of anything else?
Back in those days you had different options you could order a car with, also could get factory installed parts that were not on the build sheet. My uncle bought a 1967 400 4 speed from the dealer and had some parts added that were not put on from the factory. He also bought Ram Air 4 heads and cam from dealer and installed himself. Back then you could get those heads for $200 the set from dealer.
Seems, the questions are: 1.) What was marketing and what was engineering? There is a big difference from the "stated" 265 to 320 HP in 68' and 265 to 325 HP in 69'. Different heads, valves, intakes, carbs, cams, suspension, and dual exhaust. Seems like a good choice for the reported $180.58 (350 HO) and $76.88 (400 HO) pricing.
2.) Did marketing really drive all those options/differences (with different PNs) or did engineering dictate them for performance improvements?
It's amazing how advanced both marketing and engineering were in those days and how many options/upgrades (see below) were available.
1968: Sales climbed 23 percent to 107,112 units, with 90,152 Hardtops and 16,960 Convertibles. Trim was divided between Standard and Deluxe models. Buyers chose 15,969 Standard six-cylinder cars and 2525 Deluxe models, and 55,882 Standard V-8s and 32,736 Deluxe ones. Base prices were $2781 for the hardtop and $2996 for the convertible. For another $273.83 buyers could get the 330-bhp 400 model with twin scoop hood, heavy duty suspension, and red line tires, and the 335 bhp 400 HO cost $350.72. Top dog was the 400 Ram Air package for an additional $616, which raised the engine’s peak rpm to 5,200 but maintained 335 bhp.
As in 1967 the options were numerous and could add $1000 to the cost of the car. Common add-ons included air-conditioning ($360.20), power brakes ($42), front disc brakes ($63.19), power steering ($69), power windows ($100.05), power top ($52.66), vinyl roof ($84.26), fold-down rear seat ($42.13), hood tachometer ($63.19), tilt wheel ($42.13), console with bucket seats and floor shift ($47.39), cruise control ($52.66), head rests ($42), remote control trunk lid ($13.69), rally gauge cluster ($84), reclining right hand seat ($84), AM/FM radio ($134), stereo tape player ($128), tilt steering ($42), 3-speed with floor shift ($42), 3-speed synchromesh ($84), close-ratio 4-speed manual ($184.31), automatic transmission with V8 ($236.97), wire wheel discs ($52.66), Rally 1 wheels ($40), Rally II wheels ($56), two-tone paint ($114.80), power bench front seat or LH bucket seat ($69.51), adjustable front and rear shocks ($52.66). https://www.hagerty.com/valuation-tools/pontiac/firebird/1968/1968-pontiac-firebird
Also 068cam (Manual 69). Nodular iron crank, heavier capacity radiator, Dearborn heavy duty trans, one choice for rear gears(3.55) etc. and maybe quicker ratio steering? Mine came with the #48 heads. I’ve read that the manuals came with #48s and the autos with #62s, some say either/or. And interesting that the 69 alone came without stickers or badging. Some say they came with the 400s chrome air cleaner and valve covers, but mine did not. Maybe not specifically HO stuff, but my car also had the third return line from pump to fuel tank. The up through the trunk fuel venting with unvented cap and power steering cooler. Also all the air baffling above and below the core support.
I once had a 1967 Firebird 400 parts car. It was purchased new by the NYPD. When I was done stripping it not a single junk yard would touch it. When I took the regi to my local precinct the desk Sgt said it was probably an undercover narc car. It had a heavy duty Borg Warner three speed manual trans with console. The engine was a 335hp, I think a WT. Single Q-jet. It had the 067 cam, 670 heads at 10.75 advertised compression, 4 row radiator, block off air flow plates, the long branch exhaust manifolds, dual exhaust, manual steering, dual rear traction bars, 3:55 gears, no radio, not a single interior option, but maybe the console? It had only one fan belt, for the water pump/alternator, and the biggest WP pulley I have ever seen, probably to slow it down. Topping it all off was the chrome valve covers and chrome pancake air filter. Was this an HO car?
I’m going to vote “yes” judging from the heads and exhaust manifolds, HD trans, rear gears and WT block code. But you never know, there are exceptions to every rule. Maybe the PD ordered all that from the options list and started with a base car? No radio? Seems like they ordered all the go fast stuff and no frills. Did all 67s 400s manuals come with both traction bars or just the HOs? I once had a 67 6 cyl 4bbl sprint with a 4sp Muncie and both the bars.
I always felt it was an HO because of the exhaust manifolds. At the time it was the only car I ever saw that came with them. This thread has some good info about the traction bars. Traction bars thread It seems that the manual trans cars needed them the most. A friend had a 1967 400 but with automatic- no bars at all. Something about that high compression 1967 400 I had: when I took it apart- all the piston ring lands were broken. I would guess that when the lead was removed from the gas the 400 must have pinged like crazy. Being an NYPD car they probably just drove it to death and didn't care.
