I thought I've read not all headers will fit.

Who is running headers? And what will bolt up?

(67 convertible)

Thanks in advance.

Johnny Mac
http://my67.net

I used to run Hooker Headers (the cheaper of the two types they make) on my D-Port headed 68 Coupe. They hung down too low so I swapped to repro RAII manifolds. Quite happy with them and they are quieter.

IMHO try the Hedman Headers, I hear they are a shorty set that shouldn't hang down low if your exhaust guy does the hook-up right.

JM,
I had two Hookers in my bird for ten years before I realized they were no good for me:

If you want all out performance above all else- get headers.

If you want to replace your starter every summer- get headers.

If you enjoy removing said headers and changing the gaskets when you do your annual starter change- get headers.

If you want your engine compartment and floorboards to simulate the surface of the sun- get headers.

If you want to leave behind a trail of sparks whenever you hit a bump greater than 1"- get headers.

If you want to forego having any conversation with your passengers outside of "WHAAAA"?- get headers.

If you want to send a message to the police saying "please give me a ticket!! I'm over here!!'- get headers

If you enjoy finding and patching exhaust leaks- get headers.

I'm sure I've just sparked a passionate debate, but, JMHO based on my experience.

I went with Hedman's. THhey fit okay but now I have to use a smaller oil filter. I have not started the car yet, so I cannot comment on sound. I got them ceramic coated.

http://members.shaw.ca/zims23/DSC00362_rsz.jpg

LMAO - Z_Firebird.

Johhny Mac, he's right. The cops used to give me the evil eye but I was never pulled over. Maybe cuz I'm an adult and not a kid.

I've heard that the headers basically only help way up there in the 3,800 rpm + range, AND you lose some down low performance.

IMHO, with what I'm trying to accomplish, the cheap Hooker headers are way more trouble than they are worth. I can't speak for Hedman.

I HAVE SEEN THE HEDMAN 35270 SET INSTALLED IN SEVERAL 67'S AND 68'S. THEY SEEM TO FIT QUITE WELL, WITH NO STEERING BOX INTERFERENCE AND GOOD GROUND CLEARANCE. A BARGAIN AT $210. I WOULD STAY AWAY FROM THOSE "SHORTY" HEADERS IF YOU HAVE A FOUR-SPEED, SINCE HEDMAN CAN'T CONFIRM IF THEY FIT WITH A STANDARD TRANNY. I CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW YOU BUILD A SET OF HEADERS, AND THEN SAY YOU DON'T KNOW IF THEY WILL FIT WITH A FOUR SPEED.

SO-CALLED EXPERTS ON SOME OTHER PONTIAC SITES INSIST ON THE DOUG'S HEADERS, AT ALMOST $500. A PAIR. ONE PERSON, AFTER SAYING HOW GOOD THEY FIT, WENT ON TO SAY HE HAD TO BEND THEM ABOUT AN INCH TO GET THEM TO CLEAR HIS A CHASSIS BRACE. THAT'S WHAT YOU GET FOR $500.???????

FIRST OF ALL, HEADERS SHOULDN'T COST CLOSE TO $500. IT'S SIMPLY A CASE OF DOUG'S HEADERS RIPPING OFF THE PONTIAC COMMUNITY DUE TO THE LACK OF PONTIAC SPEED PARTS BY THE AFTERMARKET WORLD, DISGUISED BEHIND A BOAST OF A "QUALITY PRODUCT".

I GAVE UP ON HEADERS A LONG TIME AGO BECAUSE OF THE POOR FIT BY THE MANUFACTURER'S AND THE WAY YOU EAT UP STARTERS DUE TO THE EXCESSIVE HEAT.

IF YOU ARE RACING THE CAR,GO WITH THE HEADERS. OTHERWISE, INVEST IN THE LONG-BRANCH MANIFOLDS. AGAIN, THEY ARE OVER-PRICED AS WELL, BUT WHEN YOU ARE THE ONLY COMPANY MAKING THEM (RAM AIR RESTORATIONS), THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS.

C.J.

Yeah, my Long Branch were $500+ but I was able to put a whole slew of problems to rest.

Used Hedmans on my 67-68FB's for years. No mod's needed on install.
Coated is the only way to go.
Run full exhaust with largest muffler's as possible.

Now the bad news;
The RH side will speed bump alot. The left side too.
The floor boards cook in summer. Get a thermo barrier blanket between carpet(cowl to front of seats)
Get a solenoid heat shield. I run a separate wire from the battery to the solenoid thru a toggle switch. With key in on possition, hit toggle till engine starts. Then turn toggle back off.
All headers are more work, but if matched with other engine mod's, work great.

I put the correct Hedmans on last year and have never looked back. They provide instant performance improvement to any car using the stock manifolds.

Other than having to remove the driver-side header whenever you have to replace the starter, I've had no other issues like those mentioned above.

I love them, but will pull them out once I find a good pair of long-branches for the right price.

Interesting post Nash. So if the Hedmans are cool, why pull them? What are you hoping to gain with cast iron?

Thanks,
Scott

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I had two Hookers in my bird for ten years before I realized they were no good for me: </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">when I read this my first thought was "10 years, how did you feed them?" then I realized it was about exhaust we were talking... :p

LMAO!! Hoooooo... *gasp*

I figured someone would pick up on that straightline, but I thought it would be Johnny Mac!!

Thanks for all the info guys... not so sure what to do now. I have the original exhaust manifolds, but the engine builder reccommended headers.

Had to work today, I caught the Hooker comment Z, but Bjorn beat me to it.

Johnny Mac

I just installed a set of Hedman 35270' s last month. They fit perfect and went in with starter and standard size oil filter (w/adaptor) in place. Did not have to lift the motor. It is a 4 spd. car, and I did have to take off the Z-bar to get them in, but once the headers were in, there was no interference with it.

I went with the headers because of the performance gain and the sound. The cars with exhaust manifolds just sounded too "stock" for me. Just depends on what you are looking for I guess.

Oh yeh. Ground clearance is excellent. They can barely be seen from the side below the subframe.

Cool Ron67, and thats on a 67 Convertible? I do have automatic.

Johnny Mac

my personal feeling... listen to what Z says....if you dont, at least put mr Gasket copper gaskets on the first time!
be prepared for hard to start warm engine...

I had Headmans on my last bird, a 68 with a 421 with no fitment problem. It was lowewred slightly with no problems unless it was a major speedbump, and then I went at an angle, agan, no problems. Never a starter, gasket or oil filter issue what so ever.

My 67 Drop top came with a nice set of Hooker Super Comps. I've had them on and off and on half a dozen times with no problems. I've never bottomed out even on speed bumps, again, no clearance, starter, gasket or oil filter problem?

I've even taken the off this last time in half an hour start to finish to have them coated...

Maybe I'm just lucky? But I've always had good luck with headers and I'm happy with them... and so I recommend them. I can't justify the price for a set of Ram Air Manifolds... so that is not an option for me personally, but I love the stock HiPo look and the benefits... just not the price...

Brett - 67 Drop Top 455!

Has anyone ever used the longbranch RA headers and NOT been happy? I can't recall any complaints.

Johnny Mac. It' s a convertible. I haven' t had the hot start cooked starter problem either, even with a daily driver. That is just my experience though as I have heard more people with heat related problems than not.

Johnny...Go with either the Hedman's or Hooker's if you can't afford the Ram Air manifolds. I believe headers are mandatory on a true muscle car! I've been running headers since the 70's with no probs. The only thing is they may or may not hang a little low. Even if you did have starter probs, which I doubt you will, Jeg's or Summit carries the relay which boosts amperage to the starter solenoid. I dig the ticking sound at the motor. And also realize there will be a horsepower gain on a header equipped car.

Affording the RA longbranches isn't a problem, I can't find any.

But horsepower is the goal. I don't want to pay the builder for performance then "choke" his work.

Headers are mandatory because they give you the most bang for the buck in the hp department. The starter on my car has been baking in header heat since 1987, and it still cranks. (I have been reading up on distributor curve, and the cure for hot start problems lies in proper spark advance set up. When I first set up the distributor, it was totally a hit-or-miss process because we weren't in the shared information world. Now that I have found what looks as if it's good information, I'll take another stab at the disbutor's curve, and I bet that I can knock out the hot start syndrome.)

Headers also complement low end torque with no sacrifice in the low end.

I have a pos set of Hooker Comp + on my car, installed in 87. The problem with these headers is that back then, they designed the comp + for 67-81 birds. Anyone with even a basic working knowledge base on car engineering knows that second generation parts don't fit first generation. So the problem was that Hooker's engineer wasn't that bright.

I have seen pictures of the 7-9 Hooker header, and it looks as if it's a fair fit. I thought about replacing the headers with the "updated" design, but while I have the sheet metal off, I think that I'll pull the left header and hammer it to fit. After almost 20 years, the headers are still rock solid.

From what I have heard, eveyone is satisfied with Doug's. Even though Lanc and I have different points of views on headers, he makes a darn good point. Other than ripping people off, there is no reason for its headers to be any more than the competitors. The mass production process is identical, so there is no justification. Also, the comment about having to bend it however much is a good point. Bottom line, headers are a hammer to fit, even with doug's.

And headers aren't noisy. It's the the type of mufflers. My car is pretty quiet, and it screams instead of roars when you get into it. The noise creats an irritation, the reason cops give noisy cars tickets.

Sounds like everyone agrees longbranch headers is the best choice.

I found D-Port factory headers from Ram Air restorations. $640 ceramic coated and flanges, plus shipping I'm sure.

LB-1 Long Branch D-Port Factory Headers

Johnny Mac

Bjorn my pal, you are smoking swedish crack again (just kidding), or you have old experience with cheap headers. I've had ZERO starting problems with these headers over the past 14 months, and I drive her 2-3 times a week all day.

I do stop-and-go, run into Walmart, stop at gas station, the booze store, Hooters, stop at another gas station, run around the military base all day, etc etc. Start the car probably 9-10 times over that schedule, no problems. I do have a heat shroud on the starter, but shouldn't we all?

Greg, send me your spare set of long-branch RA manifolds for me to try out, my friend!! I'm confident I'll endorse them. :p

QUOTE:
----------------------------------------------
Nash, So if the Hedmans are cool, why pull them? What are you hoping to gain with cast iron?
------------------------------------------
Scott, 68 birds didn't come with headers, thats why. If I find a set of original long-branch for less than a house payment I'll buy them! JM seems to have a good bead on repros, but I'd need to hear from several experienced folks that endorse them before dropping that cash.

We all try to stay as original as possible, based on money and availability. Bottom line, I guess, is that you have to dump those stock manifolds off any FGF to increase performance. It really was an eye-opener when I did it.

Nash,

Where did you get your heat shield?

Zims my friend, I bought two or three actually. They are somewhat the same, just slightly different shapes. You need one? PM me with address and I'll send you a spare.

Thx for the answer Nash, makes sense.

Those ceramic RA manifolds ar nice! Thx for the link.

Merv, all I know, for who knows what reason, I dropped about 20 dB when I went from Hooker to RA.

Yes, make sure you spend a little more on COPPER gaskets.

Great thread.

Thanks to Johnny Mac's link, I discovered that there's two types of Oil Filter adapters.

OF-2, "Firebird " and OF-1, "Big Car" I really need to know - Do I buy the adapter based on what car the engine originally came out of -OR- what car the engine is going into?

OF-2: http://www.ramairrestoration.com/catalog/images/OF-2.jpg

OF-1: http://www.ramairrestoration.com/catalog/images/OF-1.jpg


Why do I want to know? My "new" replacement engine originally came out of a 69 Catalina (I assume a "big car") but it's going into a Firebird.

Thanks for the help,
Scott

I called RamAirRestoration for some free tech support.

Answer: You use the adapter based on the car the engine is going into.

I'd buy a set of RA/d-port's if they would make them in aluminum
Them iron's wieght a ton.
Header's make alot more power though.

Ok, so, headers will make more power than the RA long branch manifolds. But, The cast Fe RA longbranches will be quieter...and will fit perfectly.

What would be the estimated diff in power betwixt the two?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">headers will make more power than the RA long branch </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">as far as I`ve heard its debateable...."more" is more ,but how much 'more' is the question, noticeable? if you have for instance 300 hp to start with ,will you notice 305?
drag racing ,yes, street car , no

just my humble opinion..

Hey Hey Smitty...

I too believe I have a 69 Cat, Bonnie, GTO motor in my bird (YD Block). I need to call RA Resto and to confirm the longbranch fits ok.

Maybe headers render more horsies, but if I follow everyone correctly, the longbranch seems to solve alot of problems..

I'll buy them for the dyno testing, but install my stock manifolds so I can drive it to the muffler guy. Then pay to have my exhaust done again, thereby keeping my record of doing everything twice intact.

Johnny Mac

I drove to the muffler shop with open long branch manifolds.
Fun!
That day, I did avoid the cops.

Holy crap, Z! You must have scared off all known animals within a ten mile radius!!

I drove my 68 Camaro SB once with open headers many years ago. It was terrifying. Neighbors came out of their homes and yelled at me, dogs chased the car, girlfriend asked to be let out at the corner, etc.

As much as I am an advocate for nice tame manifolds, and as much as I rant against headers, it should still be said that everyone should experience driving with open headers at least once in their life. It's like a rite of passage
.... then, get the long branch.

I did the same with my 68/421, started late on doing a header install to replace the stock logs. Got done with the install, and HAD to try them out. Of course the exhaust was just the headers at that point... but the kicker was, this was in a semi under ground parking garage in an appartment building! I got up the ramp, and headed up the street and around the block... (Sounded like a Funny Car at the strip)

I shut her down and coasted the last little bit, and back into the Garage... parked it, and just as I was cleaning up, I see two Black & Whites cruise by up the street. Once I got upstairs... I noticed it was midnight! Doh! My bad... But I still had a big Grin on my face!

Yeah... Headers can do that to you...

Brett - 67 Drop Top 455!