Finally had some time tonight to take off both valve covers and scrutinize just whats under there as far as evidence and info:
#1 - VERY strong gunpowder smell under them there covers! Anyone thats been to a shooting range or in the military knows that smell....VERY strong. Whats it mean?
By the way, anyone else have these oil drippers in their FGF? I asked a few years ago and didn't get any response.
#2 - Very obvious gold/copper/brass glitter in all the oil puddles and capture spots, including a thin veil of the metals along the valve cover gaskets themselves. Very obvious, was not there one year ago during gasket replacement.
Okay, keep those thoughts and ideas coming my friends. I want to be driving her again in six weeks or less.
'68 428 HO M3 Monster, 4-on-the-floor! Need I say more?
ORIGINAL POST FROM A FEW WEEKS AGO, JUST AS A REMINDER:
Man, she was running just great this past Friday and Saturday. Running several hours both days on the highways and byways. Then on Sunday afternoon she started having a quiet little metal hammer ring whenever I pushed hard on the accelerator.
As the day wore on, the hammering got louder and more metal-like! I'm talking a real loud clacking hammer whenever you hit the pedal. Once you are cruising at speed and not pushing on the pedal, the sound is not there and the car drives fine.
But as sooon as you ask for a little power with the pedal she starts clackity hammering away!! Man, I had to limp home and put her to bed. Yesterday I verified oil level (new oil and filter last month) and checked everything obvious, but five minutes after cranking her up the hammer sound kicked in again.
Can't tell where its coming from, but it seems deep down in the block. It is nothing loose or external to the block itself. Give me some thoughts and ideas here friends. I am not an engine block pro by any means. I figure a compression test would be as good a place to start as anywhere, eh?
'68 428 HO M3 Monster, 4-on-the-floor! Need I say more?
Very obvious gold/copper/brass glitter in all the oil puddles and capture spots,would indicate BEARING material needs to be tore down and inspected. without running it any more.
The oil drippers like that were used in most Hi Po engines of the late 60's. There were other very similar styles used in earlier years. During the 70's, they went to the drippers that were spot welded to the underside of the valve covers.
Banshee, there ARE some folks here like me that haven't delved too deep into engine blocks. If this thread is too slow for you then just ignore it and post your responses elsewhere.
Bruce, lets keep an eye on that auction. Some folks have alot of cash in their pockets.
I pick up the engine hoist from HF tonight! I'll do a little more engine tear-down this weekend and post some pics. This is sure to irritate Q and Banshee, so look forward to it!
'68 428 HO M3 Monster, 4-on-the-floor! Need I say more?
How come this guy on the auction is not posting real photos of the engine. Something smells, and it ain't gunpowder....ya may be just buying a magazine!
But I think we will not hear the end of it until Memorial Day and 37 different opinions on how and why and then how to rectify.
Ok, I'm game, I'll add to that queue!
So, definitely a spun bearing. Go ahead and pull it and put it on the stand. You're not going to gain anything by trying to investigate with the engine in. Regarding the oil drippers, that is one of the features that differentiates the 400 HO from the lowly base 400: (Cam, Carb, longbranches, oil drippers and a windage tray). Though lacking in respect and notoriety, the 400 HO is a very worthy engine that in stock form pumps out ~370 HP- more than a 440 six pack. Obviously I am biased here, but everyone seems to be recommending a new engine, but I say why not rebuild what you have? Especially if cost is a factor... if you find an honest machine shop, they won't do work that isn't needed, like boring it or doing head porting. You could go a long way replacing the rings and bearings, honing the cylinders, valve job, new valve train, and magnafluxing everything. If they find anything else worn- fix as needed. Since you are on a budget, that should help contain costs. Plus, you'll make a better investment putting that money in your numbers matching 400 HO engine as opposed to spending it on an incorrect engine. Even if you save and store the #s match engine, you car won't have its maximum value until the 400 HO is rebuilt and reinstalled- so ultimately, one way or another, you'd be paying for two engines instead of one. The downside, of course, is the risk of blowing the engine beyond repair, but really, how risky is that? Are you going to the track every weekend? Are you drag racing every zit-faced kid with an NOS equipped Accord? Or, do you go out for cruises with family and friends, occasionally doing a short posi burn or flooring it on the onramp? If its the latter, I don't think the risk of losing your engine is that great. Mine is as strong as every since its 1981 rebuild- still has great compression, and has never been bored out. And, JimC has something like 2 million miles on his never rebuilt 400 HO. A numbers matching 400 HO 4 speed coupe is a rare and special animal, and is a direct decendant of the '69 Trans Am. I say get some long branches and an 068 cam, and rebuild it to stock. It will more than pay for itself in increased value of the car. That's my 2 cents, 'nuff said.
Also important, of course, is to rebuild the rods with ARP bolts and have the rods re-sized after installing the bolts. A spun rod bearing can distort the shape of the cap and make it impossile to correctly re-size the rod. If you don't take this step and you rebuild the motor assuming the rod was fine, you'll be doing it again on Memorial day, and then we will certainly NEVER hear the end of it and those 37 opinions will seem like chicken feed.
Also ... any time you want to bring that noogie hammer out here to the west coast, you just be my guest.
Thats good info John, thanks. The intent is to find a good driver engine I can slap in the bird now, then slowly and correctly rebuild the original engine. I've always treated the car as a cruiser. I make noise once in a while but no real racing.
My rebuild options are limited locally (only one good shop in the area and they are backlogged out the ying-yang), and according to Tom in KY and a few others BUTLER Pontiac builders takes a LONG time.
But we'll drive on with this and take is one step at a time.
'68 428 HO M3 Monster, 4-on-the-floor! Need I say more?
Noogie is absolutely against the law. If caught thinking about it, it is a mandatory sentence of 6 months of anger management at the nearest day spa, and you have to pay for your own Perrier. Nookie, on the other hand, is still quite legal.
TOHCan: I was going by an article Vikki posted a few months back... Since most manufacturers lied about true horsepower to meet whatever rules or guidelines, but didn't lie about torque, this article used a formula to take max. torque and peak RPM to estimate true HP. Vikki, any chance you can repost that? It got lost in the new software.
I get it. So if you multiply torque (in pound-feet) by engine speed (in RPM) and divide the product by 5,252, RPM is converted to "radians per second" and you can get from torque to horsepower -- from "pound-feet" to "foot-pounds per second."
.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
'68 428 HO M3 Monster, 4-on-the-floor! Need I say more?
Vikki, that's exactly how it works. If you know the torque at a given rpm, you use the formula to determine the horsepower, and vice versa.
Before we get into the age old battle about which is more important to a street car, torque or hp, remember that they are directly related. When you say you have 500 ft.lbs of torque at 4000 rpm, you are also saying that you have 381 hp at 4000 rpm.
Most people would say that torque is what accelerates a car. Guess what, so does horsepower! Horsepower is just a useful number that is converted from torque. I think I did this before but here's an example (for those who are still awake): two engines make the same horsepower and are installed in two identical cars. If we freeze-frame the two cars, when both cars are at the same speed and both engines are producing the same horsepower, they will accelerate at the same rate. Makes sense right? Now for the punch line: it doesn't matter what the gear ratio or the size of the engine is - or how much torque it is making.
When you have this figured out, you'll understand why horsepower numbers are more useful than torque numbers, and why most power ratings are in horsepower.