Geoff, Would it be good to have a new category for all the firebird mysteries . as you know all 3 years have some unsolved codes or options. I wonder about 67 steering wheels (clear top) and codes 3HF or 3D and 68 Bird glass, 69- D-80 .If there was a category for each year it would help keep these questions up front and may help solve some. Thanks, Jim Goodrich


Thank you Jim and Vikki as I took your suggestion and created this section. I will leave this post as a sticky for a place for options to be suggestion for a topic to be created to be research.

I should note, right now I have limited to topic creation leaving replies open. The idea is to focus on one thing at a time for a period of time.

As always, thanks - Geoff

Good idea Jim. There is a pile of mysteries. (washer nozzle routing, glove box bird, glass bird, etc.)

I will take your replies to the mysteries we need to research and compile a list in this post. Then we can start a topic focus on one of these:

• '67 Body Tag Accessory Codes
• '67 3H Accessory Code (Topic # 64034)
• '68 Finger Pull Gas Cap Emblem
• '68 deluxe non-knit seatcovers

I realized I started a list with John's help: http://FirstGenFirebird.org/timeline.html

Most of these research projects will entail you to look at your Body Tag and pictures of the different variances to determine what you have. Some other codes may be needed and will be described in its specific topic. Again, this will be fluid on how this goes.

Here's another topic, courtesy of 69Firebirdman. What was the changeover date for fuel filler door on '67, from lift tab to emblem pull?

I knew about the change in '68 as I have the finger pull on my '68 and seen the regular on another. Does anyone have pictures for '67 as I was not aware of it.

Hear is my favorite, Which cars got the clear top wheel and why.

1- Standerd 2- Deluxe 3- Deluxe clear top 4- Custom wood

I think you need to go by build dates for the clear top deluxe wheel.

My Deluxe Interior Custom Trim '67 convertible parts car does not have the clear top wheel. 05C build date.

i`m curious to the changeover from = vent balls to + vent balls in 69`s...

Vikki, You may be right. This car has clear top wheel and is very early build. Not it also has 3D code.(I don't have the vin.)
Any one else have clear wheel with build date?

I had a brain teaser question about production series numbers on 69's. For example; How can two cars going down the same assembly line the same week jump over 5000 in series numbers? Normally they go in an orderly manor. To be even more specific, Vikki's car and mine were built the same week on the same line and the numbers jumped up over 5000 between us.

Jim, Have you seen this article. It may help.

http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml

Yes, I saw that long ago when I was documenting my 1st gen Camaros. It's good that you bring this to the discussion because it's part of the puzzle. In the 1st gen Camaro documenting world they count on the series numbers being in line with the dates produced. In fact, when they run into two cars the same week with contradicting numbers there's suspicion that the trim tag has been changed and has the wrong series number on it. Both of our cars are highly documented and neither is suspect.
Here's a link to the old thread that didn't get resolved: http://firstgenfirebird.org/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=64291&page=0&fpart=7

Here's where we were at on the numbers:

09A LOR500727 conv
09C LOR503170 conv 200 paint 53C
10D LOR509325 conv 216
10E LOR508670 conv 212
11C LOR500278 conv
11D LOR511257 conv 218
11D LOR516525 conv 208
01B LOR526844 conv 212 paint 65A
03A LOR536805 conv 206
03B LOR541331 conv

Jim G, your posted image shows an 02A (First week February) car. Top line of the trim tag.

About a year ago, saw a show stating FB and Camaro bodies(not chassis)were painted on the same assembly line.
Say it aint so!
But that could be an explanation for vin # jumps.

Norwood ran two shifts, and produced 57 cars per hour, or 912 per day, and produced only the Camaro until mid-April, 1969, when the Firebird (previously built at Lordstown) was added to their mix.

Jim, I think I am confused, Were the cars you listed built in 68 for 69 model year.

Yes. The first column is the build week.

This is a 68. Don't know if it is orignal but looks like it.

You can tell it is not original. The column is black, only the wheel and hub are painted. It is a '67 wheel in a '68 car.

I've yet to figure out why my two 68's have different steering wheels but the same std interior.
One had antenna front, the other rear but same radio.

I know on the 9's the steering wheel option was separate from the interior option and there were three choices.

Wher'nt front antenna's standard, and rear's optional?

I think the rear antenna was the optional power antenna.

On '69 the standard antenna was manual, front; the optional was power, rear. On '67 and '68 all were manual, front was standard, rear was optional, and different antennas were used for AM and for AM/FM.

Anyone have a 67 am radio with manuel ant?
Looks original, but you can push it all the way down to the bezel.
Works fine.

I had one of those on my 67 that I sold to Pauly(member). It was a rear antenna. I thought it was rigged because I thought it was supposed to be power if it was a rear antenna. I might still have part of it.

This may have been covered but I made an observation this weekend on the different steering wheels in my two birds.
The only interior difference other than the color is the wheel...AND... something I never noticed before.
On the coupe with the "nice" wheel the dash pad has the deluxe chrome trim around the front. The vert with the standard wheel does not.
I have these cars for so long that if I did noticed it before I'd forgot.
Maybe that tim came with the wheel option difference?

my 67 as the oringnal push button am radio with the optional manual rear antenna a $9.48 option

Hi,
My Firebird has a VIN which says it should be a 1968 convertible, but it looks very much like a 1967 model (with vent windows and non-wrap-around lights in front). Has anyone heard about this before? Could it be a late year 1967 car, tagged as 1968 but build with 1967 specs? I don't have the other tag information yet since the car is being shipped to me at the moment.

Otto

That would be 1 of 1. Where was the VIN, door jamb or dash?

The body tag info and vin tag info, compared to the hidden vins, will go a long way toward answering your questions.

It is not impossible; there were pre-release cars but they often never left GM. I had a 'Cuda that was titled as a '70 but was built as a '71 show car. Wish I had it now...

Have you ordered a PHS packet for the car yet? http://phs-online.com

couldnt pre-release cars that GM had become factory workers or plant managers cars , later sold as used...?

there are LOTS of Factory cars like 1 of 1 in Italy , lots of Fiats like that ,they sold off their design cars

67 vin tag's are on the drivers door.
68's are on l/f upper dash, visible through windshield.
Just in case someone didnt know.

1st pic has the same dash pad and wheel my 1st 68FB had with std interior.
2nd pic looks like a wheel from a 60's PU truck.

Found another difference between my coupe and vert. The seat belts are different.
Both Standard interior but I'm starting to find several differences.

Update:
09A LOR500727 conv
09C LOR503170 conv 200 paint 53C
10D LOR509325 conv 216
10E LOR508670 conv 212
11C LOR500278 conv
11D LOR511257 conv 218
11D LOR516525 conv 208
12B LOR521567 conv 207
01B LOR526844 conv 212 paint 65A
03A LOR536805 conv 206
03B LOR541331 conv

?

For those who haven't been following along, it's starts here:


/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=64291&page=0&fpart=1

With follow up:

I had a brain teaser question about production series numbers on 69's. For example; How can two cars going down the same assembly line the same week jump over 5000 in series numbers? Normally they go in an orderly manor. To be even more specific, Vikki's car and mine were built the same week on the same line and the numbers jumped up over 5000 between us.

Jim, Have you seen this article. It may help.

http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml

Yes, I saw that long ago when I was documenting my 1st gen Camaros. It's good that you bring this to the discussion because it's part of the puzzle. In the 1st gen Camaro documenting world they count on the series numbers being in line with the dates produced. In fact, when they run into two cars the same week with contradicting numbers there's suspicion that the trim tag has been changed and has the wrong series number on it. Both of our cars are highly documented and neither is suspect.


Here's where we were at on the numbers:

09A LOR500727 conv
09C LOR503170 conv 200 paint 53C
10D LOR509325 conv 216
10E LOR508670 conv 212
11C LOR500278 conv
11D LOR511257 conv 218
11D LOR516525 conv 208
01B LOR526844 conv 212 paint 65A
03A LOR536805 conv 206
03B LOR541331 conv

And then from SteveOw added.

Update:
09A LOR500727 conv
09C LOR503170 conv 200 paint 53C
10D LOR509325 conv 216
10E LOR508670 conv 212
11C LOR500278 conv
11D LOR511257 conv 218
11D LOR516525 conv 208
12B LOR521567 conv 207
01B LOR526844 conv 212 paint 65A
03A LOR536805 conv 206
03B LOR541331 conv

Great information in this thread.

On this production run topic, does anyone have any additional information on the Van Nuys cars? I've read several times that the model year was "18 months" due to the delay of introducing the 70-1/2 F-bodies, and that 69's "may" have been titled as 70's. Pontiac also toyed with the idea of adding some trim to the 69's and selling them as 70's to help get the cars off their lots.

To help move the slow selling 69's at the end of the normal 1969 model year, an announcment was made in March 1969 that all 69 Firebird sticker prices would be reduced by an average of $72. Items that were normally standard would now be optional. The Space Saver Spare was one of them, as well as certain lamp groups.

So the production run appears to have gone from September 26th 1968, through late December 1969. Pontiac sold 69 Firebirds until February 26, 1970. Jim McDonald (Pontiac General Manager) stated at a Fall 1969 preview for journalists that the 69 Firebird model run would be extended to December 1969, then the factories would be converted to 1970 model production.
Now, the question is, what would the trim tag state when Firebird production ran over 1 year?

Example: A 69 Firebird coupe tag states 11A, how do you know if that was the 1st week of November 68, or the 1st week of November 69? Would these both have 69-22367 on the tag?

Good question. It has been noted that there were 1969 Trans Ams titled with 1970 titles because of their late build.