Hey yall...I have a question regarding the body/chasis/suspension on 68 Firebirds between the different engine options. I know that the 67 Firebird came with mono leaf springs and depending on which engine/transmission received 2, 1 or no factory traction bars. I also know that Pontiac switched to multi leaf springs in 68...I was wondering if there was any differences between the suspension, axel, chasis, etc. between an original in line 6 car and a 400 car (both with 4 speeds)? Thanks

David

the ft springs were heavier for the 400.
i think the 6 cyl 4spd came with a 3.55 rear and one or two traction bars.

dont know standard rear on the 400, but i think the rest of the car was the same besides engine mounts/brackets.
the verts all came with vibration dampers in the suspention.

guess i didnt help much.

No need for traction bars in '68 due to the multi-leaf springs and the staggered shocks.

Front spring rates were indeed unique to each different combination of motor and a/c or not. I'm pretty sure there was a mulitude of rear springs set to match the front.

People don't realize how hard engineers work on suspension systems. I cringe everytime I see a "slammed" vehicle with tiny wheels and tires sticking a foot out the fender wells.

... or when they lower their cars by compressing the springs (or struts) and all four wheels show huge negative camber ... that always makes me laugh out loud.

Q

Kinda like what my Hot Wheels cars looked like as a kid if I accidentally stepped on them.

my '68 has traction bars. i thought they were factory.
i got some off a '69 parts car that look nearly the same.
both sets are yellow.

here is a link to a rice car racing a vw gti. make sure you have the sound up.

http://eurotuned.com/multimedia/gti_vs_civic.htm


and remember--a big aluminum wing on the back of your ricer adds 20 pounds of downforce at ANY speed.

Thanks guys...the reason I am asking is I am pretty hell bent on an original 67 or 68 Firebird. However, a fella sent me some info on a 68 Firebird that was originally a 6, but has a 400 in it now. He says that it has factory traction bars. Wasn't sure if that was correct...as I though only 67's came with factory traction bars.

David

Sounds like he got the same story from a previous owner. Sometimes the owners, unless they are really sharp, just don't know all that much about their own cars. They rely on what people have told them. Usually that's the guy trying to sell the car.

Q

Q , You mean those ( aftermarket) traction bars on my car are`nt original!?! LOL

Even I knew that!
In this caes not even the seller knew....she was given the car in the divorce!
/B

There ya have it: "... not even the seller knew" sounds like an eBay dream come true...

Q

Er, I think we need another description of the '67 factory traction bars vs. the aftermarket version that is most often associated with the word "Lakewood" (the yellow ones). I'll take a stab at it:

The '67 factory bars look like solid "I" beams and run from metal ears welded to the underside of the axle to a plate mounted to the bottom of the floor pan just inside of the rear frame rails. Thus the OEM bars run INSIDE of the springs (almost 1/2 way to the differential) and prevent fore and aft axle movement or axle twist

The Lakewood style bars are boxed metal that connect to the axle DIRECTLY BELOW the leaf spring and have a rubber snubber at the front. Thus they are not mechanically attached at the front end and they prevent leaf spring wind up as the front snubber restricts spring movement.

High performance '67 Camaros got 2 styles of single bars (both totally different from the Firebirds) mounted on the passenger side only.

Did I do good?

well, now i know mine arent origional.
never really thought about it much. i took them off awhile back when i did my leaf springs, as i thought they were aftermarket, then i got that parts car which had the same ones. so i thought, well, they both have the same thing, they both came with the same engine, they may actually be origional.
looks like i was right the first time and wrong the second. helps me make up my mind about putting them back on, even though i'm not all that much into staying origional. just classy.
so did only '67's had factory bars?

I think the consensus is that only the 67's had traction bars.

Q

I have great pictures of them if someone would like to post them! They are close ups and very clear. My 67 vert has never been apart back there and is still factor correct. It does need alittle paint and new bushings, thats another winter project. Let me know where to send them to be posted.

Hope this helps.

Cody

Salmon38 , sounds from your description I have those Lakewood bars ( on my 69 w 4 blade leafs), but they are not yellow , (too bad they could have matched the engine...lol)I guess the guy that installed them painted them black....I have contemplated taking them off , but not decided...since they are off now , in the midst of replacing springs and bushings , maybe this is the time to leave them off, but just wondering if the actually DO help some?

Bjorn

i didnt notice any difference, but my 250 doesnt tend to twist leaf springs. even the old worn out ones. best i can do is chirp 2nd with an rv kit in the th350. it would chirp with the bars on there too.

i think if you've got a 400 or better, and have enough traction already to twist a spring and create wheel hop, they couldnt hurt to put'm back on (after you paint them yellow )

Scott hit the nail on the head. If you have the multi-leaf and staggered shock setup and you still get wheel hop bad enough to annoy you, the "Lakewood" style bars are supposed to correct the problem.

I have corresponded with a guy on the Classical Pontiac board who converted to multi-leaves on a dual factory traction bar '67 setup (non-staggered shocks) and he swears by it. Says it totally elimitated the problem.

Me, personally, I have obtained a complete driver's side factory traction bar setup to go with my original one. I will stick with the mono-springs and the non-staggered shocks and see how it works out.

BTW, for those of you interested in turning your 'Bird into a corner carving machine - here is a 1st Gen Camaro site with great Suspension forum sections. The mediators are people who are into autocrossing big time.

Camaro Tech

Ok , think I`ll leave them on, that is put back....But since that engine now is painted Pontiac blue , I guess Il`l keep the black on the bars to keep them more "invisible"...

I just re-did the rear suspension on my '68 Firebird this past winter. The car had a set of aftermarket traction bars on it when I started the project, went back to the original set-up from factory and lost no traction from the change. Took car from a 2.56 peg-leg to a 3.55 posi with a M20 Muncie & a healthy 400. Was fun to drive! One thing that did gain was ground clearance. Traction bars hang down alot more than the factory shock plates. Won't have to worry about speed bumps in the mall parking lots! Just my thoughts.

Steve

Yeah...I know what the factory traction bars look like...but I was unsure if the 68's had them at all when Pontiac switched to staggered shocks and multi-leaf springs. The seller didn't send me a picture of the rear axel so I figured yall would know if this was standard on a 68.

Bjorn...I got your e-mail about car restoration companies...but lost becuase of my crappy webhosting company. If you still have it, could you send it again? Thanks!

I know most of yall are into Pontiacs in general and not just Firebirds...so has anyone checked out the 68 GTO 400 4speed for sale on the classical pontiac site? Lookst pretty sweet...seems like a nice asking price as well. Wish I had the bread, but then again, if I did...I would driving a 68 Firebird right now

David

I've seen some Firebird literature suggesting that the change over to the multi-leaf/staggered shock rear was AFTER the '68's started coming off the line. But I have never seen anybody claiming to have an unmolested '68 with factory traction bars.

I had a bad wheel hop prob with my 69 when I first got it. Of course the rear of the car was about three miles in the air and the "lakewood" style bars pretty much fixed it. Now it's so low I can barely get a jack under it.
When tightened all the way down they have a tendency to clamp the spring and reduce travel (which lowered the rear). I was told to take them off for that reason. I haven't driven the car yet to see what kind of difference there is yet. They did hang so low as to make driveway and speed bump driving a real drag(literally).

Robert

Yes David, only in 67, and only the 400's the H.O. 326's and the Sprint 6's got dual traction bars while the 3/4 speed counterparts (326 and OHC-6) got the single and the AT's in standard 326/OHC-6 got none...

I've heard speculation on the first few 68's possibly having the 67 mono leaf suspension, But have never heard of any documented cases, so I would doubt it.

And Scott, yes, the stock traction bars are inboard of the rear mono leaf springs and look like an "I" beam type of bar, and mout to the rear end tube, welded to it! Not bolted to the rear spring itself. But you might just hang onto the lake wood style ones you have?

Good luck David! - Brett - 67 Drop Top 455!

While out of town ( visiting Brett among other things)I called my mechanic working on the rear springs , he said the traction bars on one side now was hitting something....weird , but I told him to take the traction bars off ....so soon I`ll know how it works w/o them! lol
\Bjorn