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Manual/Power top differences #104912 10/04/07 01:55 PM Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 69 Lighthouse Point, Florida Zakdj69 Member Zakdj69 Member Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 69 Lighthouse Point, Florida My 69 is a manual top frame, are there any differences between the manual top frame and the power top frame, I was told that one of the frame parts need to be changed out in order to accept the power top cylinders. I have the pump, hoses, cylinders wiring and switch, just need to know if I need to change out something on the frame. Thanks Zak Zak 1969 Firebird Convertible 400 1982 Trans Am 1964 Understanding Long Term Domestic Partner 2 Cats

Re: Manual/Power top differences Zakdj69 #104915 10/04/07 02:04 PM Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US there is....I have a pic in an email send me an email , I can send you the pic my email bsefeldt@mhinc.com but I`ll be gone this afternoon until sat morning...if you send it next a few hrs I can handle it before... FireBjorn http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=221 69 convertible 400 (was 350) Natalie, SOLD 58 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider Veloce , Gina,(SOLD) 1974 Alfa Romeo Spider, Mrs Robinson 2011 Volvo C30 T5 , Victoria ,.....( or Vicky)

Re: Manual/Power top differences Zakdj69 #104916 10/04/07 02:07 PM Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan F Fbody69 Valued Mentor Fbody69 Valued Mentor F Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan The whole frame is the same. The difference is between the manual top lift assembly and the power top lift assembly.

Re: Manual/Power top differences Fbody69 #104919 10/04/07 03:06 PM Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,889 Columbus, Ohio I if6was9 Senior Member if6was9 Senior Member I Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,889 Columbus, Ohio Yep, the only difference is springs vs. rams (cylinders) etc. Tom '69 Firebird 400 4spd conv

Re: Manual/Power top differences if6was9 #104921 10/04/07 03:16 PM Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US the pic I have shows frame differences FireBjorn http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=221 69 convertible 400 (was 350) Natalie, SOLD 58 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider Veloce , Gina,(SOLD) 1974 Alfa Romeo Spider, Mrs Robinson 2011 Volvo C30 T5 , Victoria ,.....( or Vicky)

Re: Manual/Power top differences Bjorn Sefeldt #104922 10/04/07 03:21 PM Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan F Fbody69 Valued Mentor Fbody69 Valued Mentor F Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan The one part of the lift assembly can be considered framework. It's not part of the top frame assembly though. There is only one kind of top assembly.

Re: Manual/Power top differences Fbody69 #104923 10/04/07 03:27 PM Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US yes, its at least a piece of steel, maybe 2" long? connecting the "elbow" to the joint of the moving parts, whatever they are called..not sure how I can copy the email pic over somewhere so I can post it from my pics... FireBjorn http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=221 69 convertible 400 (was 350) Natalie, SOLD 58 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider Veloce , Gina,(SOLD) 1974 Alfa Romeo Spider, Mrs Robinson 2011 Volvo C30 T5 , Victoria ,.....( or Vicky)

Re: Manual/Power top differences Bjorn Sefeldt #104931 10/04/07 04:34 PM Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan F Fbody69 Valued Mentor Fbody69 Valued Mentor F Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan How about this one from the manual;

Re: Manual/Power top differences Fbody69 #104932 10/04/07 04:40 PM Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,739 Kettering Ohio Hammered Member Hammered Member Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,739 Kettering Ohio The middle and rear side rails are quite different. You cannot substitute hydraulic rams for helper springs and have a power top. Didn't we just have this discussion a month ago? Last edited by Hammered; 10/04/07 04:41 PM. John http://1967firebird.atwebpages.com 67 400/4spd Convertible

Re: Manual/Power top differences Fbody69 #104936 10/04/07 05:00 PM Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US I cant see the red x picture FireBjorn http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=221 69 convertible 400 (was 350) Natalie, SOLD 58 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider Veloce , Gina,(SOLD) 1974 Alfa Romeo Spider, Mrs Robinson 2011 Volvo C30 T5 , Victoria ,.....( or Vicky)

Re: Manual/Power top differences Hammered #104938 10/04/07 05:03 PM Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US Originally Posted By Hammered The middle and rear side rails are quite different. You cannot substitute hydraulic rams for helper springs and have a power top. Didn't we just have this discussion a month ago? I think we did , and I have yet to look at mine ,( top down ,boot on...)to see which I have...mine came manual from factory , but had motor , hoses hydraulics when I bought it , plus a bent rail the we welded/straightened/fixed...it COULD be the reason it got bent , if the manual top pieces didnt get changed out? I use it manually anyway , faster... FireBjorn http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=221 69 convertible 400 (was 350) Natalie, SOLD 58 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider Veloce , Gina,(SOLD) 1974 Alfa Romeo Spider, Mrs Robinson 2011 Volvo C30 T5 , Victoria ,.....( or Vicky)

Re: Manual/Power top differences Bjorn Sefeldt #104940 10/04/07 05:07 PM Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan F Fbody69 Valued Mentor Fbody69 Valued Mentor F Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan I haven't owned a manual top car so I haven't seen one. It does look like I could swap these manual parts right in for my power ones.

Re: Manual/Power top differences Bjorn Sefeldt #104942 10/04/07 05:12 PM Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,027 Langley, BC, Canada Dave's Langley '68 Droptop Power Member Dave's Langley '68 Droptop Power Member Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,027 Langley, BC, Canada Who needs a power top anyhow, David 68 Droptop 400 4 spd. http://www.flickr.com/photos/daves68droptopbird/sets/72157602364392289/ "It's a sin to squish old tin!" I can resist everything except temptation

Re: Manual/Power top differences Dave's Langley '68 Droptop #104948 10/04/07 05:37 PM Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 69 Lighthouse Point, Florida Zakdj69 Member Zakdj69 Member Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 69 Lighthouse Point, Florida Quote: The middle and rear side rails are quite different. You cannot substitute hydraulic rams for helper springs and have a power top. Didn't we just have this discussion a month ago? I did a search and can not find this topic, anyone know where it is Zak 1969 Firebird Convertible 400 1982 Trans Am 1964 Understanding Long Term Domestic Partner 2 Cats

Re: Manual/Power top differences Zakdj69 #104955 10/04/07 06:48 PM Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US sent you pics..hope they show you the difference! FireBjorn http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=221 69 convertible 400 (was 350) Natalie, SOLD 58 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider Veloce , Gina,(SOLD) 1974 Alfa Romeo Spider, Mrs Robinson 2011 Volvo C30 T5 , Victoria ,.....( or Vicky)

Re: Manual/Power top differences Bjorn Sefeldt #104960 10/04/07 07:52 PM Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,244 Likes: 12 Upstate New York Bob S. Premium Member Bob S. Premium Member Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,244 Likes: 12 Upstate New York Power tops are for sissies

Re: Manual/Power top differences Bob S. #104963 10/04/07 07:59 PM Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,114 North East Ohio catalina Senior Member catalina Senior Member Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,114 North East Ohio Quote: Power tops are for sissies Chick's dig em' though. 68' Firebird 400 convertible, numbers matching, solar red w/ deluxe parchment interior. 66' Pontiac Ventura Hardtop 66' Pontiac Catalina Convertible

Re: Manual/Power top differences catalina #104975 10/04/07 09:31 PM Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan F Fbody69 Valued Mentor Fbody69 Valued Mentor F Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan Here are Bjorn's comparison pictures;

Re: Manual/Power top differences Bob S. #104981 10/04/07 10:19 PM Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,739 Kettering Ohio Hammered Member Hammered Member Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,739 Kettering Ohio Originally Posted By Bob S. Power tops are for sissies That's fight talk around here I speak from experience when I say that you'll bend the p!$ out of those manual rails if you merely substitute hydraulic cylinders for the helper springs. John http://1967firebird.atwebpages.com 67 400/4spd Convertible

Re: Manual/Power top differences Bob S. #104982 10/04/07 10:35 PM Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,137 Likes: 45 Illinois Jimc2002 Administrator Jimc2002 Administrator Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,137 Likes: 45 Illinois Originally Posted By Bob S. Power tops are for sissies Admit it. You're just jealous. Jim '68 400HO Conv.

Re: Manual/Power top differences Hammered #104983 10/04/07 10:45 PM Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan F Fbody69 Valued Mentor Fbody69 Valued Mentor F Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan Originally Posted By Hammered Originally Posted By Bob S. Power tops are for sissies That's fight talk around here I speak from experience when I say that you'll bend the p!$ out of those manual rails if you merely substitute hydraulic cylinders for the helper springs. It must be a leverage thing.

Re: Manual/Power top differences Jimc2002 #104994 10/05/07 12:28 AM Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 69 Lighthouse Point, Florida Zakdj69 Member Zakdj69 Member Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 69 Lighthouse Point, Florida From the pics it looks like a lot of stuff is different, The rail bends in a different direction also. So should I fork out the $800 for the power top frame or just replace the rail pieces I see in the pics. Power tops are also for old fat people too! I want a power top Zak Zak 1969 Firebird Convertible 400 1982 Trans Am 1964 Understanding Long Term Domestic Partner 2 Cats

Re: Manual/Power top differences Zakdj69 #104995 10/05/07 01:00 AM Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,770 NW Chicago 4 4dabird Member 4dabird Member 4 Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,770 NW Chicago I second that opinion that a power top manually moved up/down will eventually fatigue the top connection points. It's true, it will evenually happen unless you get in the middle of the car to put the top up/down evenly. 1969 Firebird conv't A/C 400 4-Speed

Re: Manual/Power top differences Zakdj69 #104997 10/05/07 01:12 AM Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan F Fbody69 Valued Mentor Fbody69 Valued Mentor F Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan Originally Posted By Zakdj69 Power tops are also for old fat people too! I want a power top Zak Then you will want power windows too, AC, tilt, cruise....

Re: Manual/Power top differences Fbody69 #104998 10/05/07 01:20 AM Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 69 Lighthouse Point, Florida Zakdj69 Member Zakdj69 Member Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 69 Lighthouse Point, Florida Already got them, and keyless entry, Cruise hummm, I need that too Thanks Everyone More ?s to come Zak Zak 1969 Firebird Convertible 400 1982 Trans Am 1964 Understanding Long Term Domestic Partner 2 Cats

Re: Manual/Power top differences Zakdj69 #105003 10/05/07 01:39 AM Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,244 Likes: 12 Upstate New York Bob S. Premium Member Bob S. Premium Member Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,244 Likes: 12 Upstate New York After I got my bird home I spent a long time looking for the top switch. Never found it.

Re: Manual/Power top differences Bob S. #105019 10/05/07 07:31 AM Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,889 Columbus, Ohio I if6was9 Senior Member if6was9 Senior Member I Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,889 Columbus, Ohio Originally Posted By Bob S. Power tops are for sissies Sure is nice to be sittin' at a traffic light thinkin, I should put the top down. Release it from the windshield frame and push the button. The light turns green and your topless. Tom '69 Firebird 400 4spd conv

Re: Manual/Power top differences if6was9 #105022 10/05/07 10:23 AM Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan F Fbody69 Valued Mentor Fbody69 Valued Mentor F Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan Exactly! And being able to put the windows all down without twisting all around like a Chinese firedrill is priceless too.

Re: Manual/Power top differences Fbody69 #105048 10/05/07 04:13 PM Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,244 Likes: 12 Upstate New York Bob S. Premium Member Bob S. Premium Member Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,244 Likes: 12 Upstate New York I admit, I do have power top cylinder envy. I console myself by remembering that I don't have to maintain the equipment. And the top goes up even when the battery is dead.

Re: Manual/Power top differences Bob S. #105053 10/05/07 04:47 PM Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan F Fbody69 Valued Mentor Fbody69 Valued Mentor F Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan Dead battery? Shame shame. What good is a Bird with a dead battery anyway? Sit in there with the manual top down buzzing your lips like it's running? LOL

Re: Manual/Power top differences Fbody69 #105057 10/05/07 04:54 PM Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,889 Columbus, Ohio I if6was9 Senior Member if6was9 Senior Member I Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,889 Columbus, Ohio Originally Posted By Fbody69 Dead battery? Shame shame. What good is a Bird with a dead battery anyway? Sit in there with the manual top down buzzing your lips like it's running? LOL Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Tom '69 Firebird 400 4spd conv

Re: Manual/Power top differences if6was9 #105058 10/05/07 05:01 PM Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan F Fbody69 Valued Mentor Fbody69 Valued Mentor F Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan Keep practicing and you might be the next Louis Armstrong!

Re: Manual/Power top differences if6was9 #105090 10/05/07 08:50 PM Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US Originally Posted By if6were9 Originally Posted By Bob S. Power tops are for sissies Sure is nice to be sittin' at a traffic light thinkin, I should put the top down. Release it from the windshield frame and push the button. The light turns green and your topless. You must have lots slower stop lights up there....the tops I`ve seen dont go up or down that fast....I`d like to see someone drive away with it half way up or down! lol I get out ,pull it down (even pull the boot off...riiip) faster manually than any power top....I`ve practiced alot in quick rain showers! On my old Fiat I had in 67 (also manual) I would slow down , do it while driving...until ONE DAY, when I had too much speed , almost yanked my arms off! lol FireBjorn http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=221 69 convertible 400 (was 350) Natalie, SOLD 58 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider Veloce , Gina,(SOLD) 1974 Alfa Romeo Spider, Mrs Robinson 2011 Volvo C30 T5 , Victoria ,.....( or Vicky)

Re: Manual/Power top differences Bjorn Sefeldt #105129 10/06/07 07:13 AM Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,889 Columbus, Ohio I if6was9 Senior Member if6was9 Senior Member I Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,889 Columbus, Ohio Originally Posted By Bjorn Sefeldt You must have lots slower stop lights up there....the tops I`ve seen dont go up or down that fast....I`d like to see someone drive away with it half way up or down! lol I get out ,pull it down (even pull the boot off...riiip) faster manually than any power top....I`ve practiced alot in quick rain showers! On my old Fiat I had in 67 (also manual) I would slow down , do it while driving...until ONE DAY, when I had too much speed , almost yanked my arms off! lol Ya gota time it right Bjorn. I think your the only person besides my older sister who will admit they owned a Fiat. Her 128 rusted away quickly living in Rochester, NY. Tom '69 Firebird 400 4spd conv

Re: Manual/Power top differences if6was9 #105132 10/06/07 12:18 PM Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,739 Kettering Ohio Hammered Member Hammered Member Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,739 Kettering Ohio I can the top down and the windows most of the way down at a light without any problem. I can't believe the lights in Houston are any shorter and besides Bjorn, how would you really know? You've never had an operable power top on your car. I've owned a 128, 131 and Strada. I aspired to owning an X-19, but fortunately never had the opportunity. They all seemed designed to catch on fire, and once on fire burn thoroughly. Last edited by Hammered; 10/06/07 12:19 PM. John http://1967firebird.atwebpages.com 67 400/4spd Convertible

Re: Manual/Power top differences Hammered #105137 10/06/07 01:01 PM Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US Originally Posted By Hammered I can the top down and the windows most of the way down at a light without any problem. I can't believe the lights in Houston are any shorter and besides Bjorn, how would you really know? You've never had an operable power top on your car. I've owned a 128, 131 and Strada. I aspired to owning an X-19, but fortunately never had the opportunity. They all seemed designed to catch on fire, and once on fire burn thoroughly. LOL, my buddies with power tops , Andy and Paul...when we are out and get caught in rain ,my top is down first...theirs are still "going and going"...lol and my Fiat was a 1500 convertible, 1965 model.....only problem I had with it was the starter and generator kept falling off , both fell off twice during my 2 yrs of ownership...about 40k miles...drove it all over Europe , on German Autobahn , topped out 120...loved that car... FireBjorn http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=221 69 convertible 400 (was 350) Natalie, SOLD 58 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider Veloce , Gina,(SOLD) 1974 Alfa Romeo Spider, Mrs Robinson 2011 Volvo C30 T5 , Victoria ,.....( or Vicky)

Re: Manual/Power top differences if6was9 #105138 10/06/07 01:03 PM Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US Originally Posted By if6were9 Originally Posted By Bjorn Sefeldt You must have lots slower stop lights up there....the tops I`ve seen dont go up or down that fast....I`d like to see someone drive away with it half way up or down! lol I get out ,pull it down (even pull the boot off...riiip) faster manually than any power top....I`ve practiced alot in quick rain showers! On my old Fiat I had in 67 (also manual) I would slow down , do it while driving...until ONE DAY, when I had too much speed , almost yanked my arms off! lol Ya gota time it right Bjorn. I think your the only person besides my older sister who will admit they owned a Fiat. Her 128 rusted away quickly living in Rochester, NY. time is time...lol...mine goes down so much faster than my friends, while they are holding the button..... I had mine in Stockholm, Sweden 2 winters, and we had salt also, but the car was only 1 yr old when I got it and I kept it very clean....no rust when I sold it 3 yrs old. FireBjorn http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=221 69 convertible 400 (was 350) Natalie, SOLD 58 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider Veloce , Gina,(SOLD) 1974 Alfa Romeo Spider, Mrs Robinson 2011 Volvo C30 T5 , Victoria ,.....( or Vicky)

Re: Manual/Power top differences Hammered #105152 10/06/07 03:25 PM Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,889 Columbus, Ohio I if6was9 Senior Member if6was9 Senior Member I Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,889 Columbus, Ohio Originally Posted By Hammered ...They all seemed designed to catch on fire, and once on fire burn thoroughly. Italian planned obsolescence. Tom '69 Firebird 400 4spd conv

Re: Manual/Power top differences if6was9 #105154 10/06/07 03:33 PM Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan F Fbody69 Valued Mentor Fbody69 Valued Mentor F Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 14,265 Michigan Fiat stands for; Fix It Again Tony

Re: Manual/Power top differences if6was9 #105168 10/06/07 04:58 PM Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Bjorn Sefeldt Administrator Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 20,054 Houston, Texas ,US Originally Posted By if6were9 Originally Posted By Hammered ...They all seemed designed to catch on fire, and once on fire burn thoroughly. Italian planned obsolescence. very easy to change oil...theres a constant drip, so all you do is re fill from the top....lol FireBjorn http://FirstGenFirebird.org/show/closeup.mv?CarID=221 69 convertible 400 (was 350) Natalie, SOLD 58 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider Veloce , Gina,(SOLD) 1974 Alfa Romeo Spider, Mrs Robinson 2011 Volvo C30 T5 , Victoria ,.....( or Vicky)