When I bought my Firebird this fall the seller included a set of pusher electric cooling fans. He stated that the car always ran a little hot and hoped this would help.

Do any of you have any experience in this area to help me decide if this is a good idea?
1. Should I "add" the pusher fans to my existing stock system?
2. Should I remove my existing stock fan and just use the pusher fans?
3. Should I just forget it and sell the fan on EBAY?

forget pusher fans, my prev owner had installed one, it blocked more air than it helped!

IF your car runs hot...meaning over 220F.....and how hot is hot?? A pontiac can run hotter than others ,but if its 200-210F its fine,, if you are running 230 ,yes it hot....many things to look at before you look at a helper fan...use a 180 or 190 thermostat, do you have a 400 or a/c car? if so, do you have all the fillers 3 of them? waterpump impeller , can you do the 'mod'?, is the car running lean? = hotter, ...is the radiator plugged up? etc,etc...dont just slap a helper fan on ,esp not a pusher it just blocks the radiator...if anything ,get a bigger , new (or clean out the existing) radiator...you could go with electric fans ,but if so use puller fans...personally I dont like electric fans because of the noise....

You can hear electric fans over your engine? What exhaust are you running?

The thing I like about electric fans are:
Less parasitic losses (can help up to 10hp, improve fuel economy)
Speed of fan is not dependent on engine speed.
Runs when you need it and not when you don't.... for example, after the engine is shutoff, but not when cruising down the highway.

Of course, all this is only a benefit when you run only the electric fans.

on THIS car , I dont know ,esp since after I removed that pusher fan I changed to 2.5" pipes and two flowmasters 40, no transverse... but you certainly can hear the electric fans after you step out and engine is turned off...

on my OLD car , a Fiberglass Austin Healey Replica, with Ford 302 I had only puller electric fan ,and yes I could hear it...not sure what muffler was on it ,since I bought it assembled...but it wasn`t quiet!

and re:
,sure...but if you have 300 hp and if you are not racing...those UP TO 10 hp are not very noticeable...nor is fuel economy improvement very noticeable if you get 12 mpg to start with...lol

BUT the 5F I lost by removing the pusher fan was noticeable , esp if you were running at 225F as I was...now at 200F (after also adding one missing rubber filler and the two X fillers)it all helps

I like to take them off and sell them on eBay(option 3).

The electric fan coming on after the car is shut off is a good thing.

After the engine is shutoff, the temperature underhood continues to climb and depending what where you are taking measurements, will peak 15 - 25 minutes later. This ages non-metallic parts much faster.

With a mechanical fan, there is no airflow after the engine stops, thus higher temperatures will be reached during a hot soak.

Now, if the electric fan is not sufficiently sized, or is being used in parallel and causes a restriction, then better off without.

[quote=FirebirdMike]The electric fan coming on after the car is shut off is a good thing.

After the engine is shutoff, the temperature underhood continues to climb and depending what where you are taking measurements, will peak 15 - 25 minutes later. This ages non-metallic parts much faster.

With a mechanical fan, there is no airflow after the engine stops, thus higher temperatures will be reached during a hot soak.

Now, if the electric fan is not sufficiently sized, or is being used in parallel and causes a restriction, then better off without. [/quote]

I`m very well aware of the benefits and that the heat spikes after shut off...I am merely talking about the noise factor...and anytime a car travels over 30mph , no fan is needed...

I'm with Jim, option 3. Bjorn points out the maintenance issues that need to be addressed. Ditto on the temp range at 210° - 220°. It's a hot topic around here, pun intended.

Ok, but you discounted my other two comments, and didn't acknowledge the additional benefits. Cars run under 30mph quite a bit. For example when they are parked after running...

well, to be honest , those are not big benefits to me...and I dont like the noise that they make when just parked...several guys in my group have those, Drew and Blake for instance ,and I just dont get used to it.....personally I do drive under 30 too, but I try not to....

I would look at how many cores radiator has, check thermostat, check water pump plates, spacers and grommets, check for radiator corrosion, fan shroud? Timing? HEaders? Exhaust type and size?

What head codes, engine displacement, trans and rear gear ratio? A/C? Filler panels (X panels) attached?

Always use puller fan, vs. pusher fans..

The fan should only be 'on' when car is running, and not turn on after you removed the key.

-If for any reason the thermostat is not working correct, you can risk that the fan will just continue to run, until no more volts on battery.

-When any car stops, the heat will always rise.. -since there is no waterflow anyway, it does not help that fan turns on (well the air is cooler, but not the engine)

I totally agree Claus!

Claus, what is your basis for stating the fan should never come on after vehicle shutoff?

I agree with your statements regarding heat soak (as I mentioned before underhood temperatures will peak several minutes after the vehicle is shut off). However, most OEM vehicles are calibrated such that once a certain coolent temperature is reached, when the vehicle is shutoff the fan will continue to run for a specified time. For the components we tested, in the case where we exceeded temperatures, one solution was longer fan run time. Then it was usually a matter of getting buy in from calibration for a slightly longer fan run, or in the case where it was too long, then insulation would be necessary.

Often you won't find the fan run on after shutoff with normal conditions (ambient temperature, moderate driving), but when certain temperatures are reached they use it.

Furthermore one of the techniques to "age" parts is using heat. Heat not only breaksdown composite materials, but the thermal growth rate differences between different composite and metallic materials either bonded with adhesive or fastened together can induce stresses, or in some cases relieve stresses causing a part to deform in a way not conducive to function.

Airflow over the engine will help reduce underhood temperatures. Maybe not for all components (depending where it is located) but nearly most of them. And yes it will continue to rise, but the curve is much reduced. And the less excessive heat your underhood components experience, the better.

Since I never worked in fan sensors, I can't say for sure whether they fail in the way you stated, but I had never experience this in testing, nor have I had this happen on personal cars.

when I was a Volvo dealer we had a problem with an electric fan once....Volvos use electrics...customer comes in ,saying that thge car suddenly overheats...the car would over heat pretty quick too..very unusual...and it got hotter and hotter...

we were stading around it , the mechanic ,the service mgr and I, checking the engine running..see the temps going up, checked with a heat gun...until I felt something...stuck my hand down in front of the radiator...the fan was blowing the wrong way!!
someone had worked on it at another shop, plugged in the wires wrong so instead of pulling cool air in, it was blowing hot air from the engine out thru the radiator...LOL

No car that any manufacturer ever made had the fan to come on after shutdown. -If so they would have a timer, only allowing the fan to run a maximum of time ,-for example 30 or 60 seconds.

Reason why is to avoid system to rob too many volts

well, modern cars do...my Volvo C70 does....

I've heard many a newer cars fan running in parking lots.

Claus your first statement is incorrect, most do it.

Your second statement is correct, it is for a specified time. I did state that in my previous comments.

I don't think it's going to do much good cooling the radiator when the coolant isn't flowing through it. Very little return for your amps...

for about 30-40 sec`s

i wonder how these cars ever made it without todays technology?

Go ask your friends in Powertrain who have done testing whether it can work. Yes there is no coolant flow, yes it still provides a benefit. I am not making this stuff up, in my previous work I ran tests and worked with others who have ran tests. Tests with extremely accurate equipment, data logging, and following a strict procedure producing repeatable results.

Please, you guys are not doing others a service to the others on this board here by stating opinion without experience. I am not trying to hurt anyones feelings here, but I think it is important to get correct information out there for others. That should be all our goal when we respond to technical threads.

no feelings hurt here...I still dont like the noise , good or not...when my Volvo fan runs (happens rarely) after I shut it off, I always worry...

Well they spewed a ton more emissions and sucked a lot more fuel, plus don't have 1/10th of the electronics new cars need to meet safety, fuel economy, and emissions guidelines set by the government(s).

Have you thought about getting an Ipod?

lol, I got one from my company last year as a XMas present ,but gave it to my son...this year I gave one to my daughter...I only have a CD player in the car (am/fm/cassette in the bird)...but as I turn the car off ,so does it...and when I walk out , nada...lol

I have some experience with electric fans. One example; I bought a 79 TA with a dual flex-a-lite electric fan. Engine temps topped off at about 210 while cruising. This was a 4 speed car which usually do not overheat. I switched the cooling system back to exactly original. The temperature never got over 180 after the switch back. I sold the electric fan on eBay and recovered all the cost to put the car back to stock. It was a 'win win'. So, now when I think about electric fans all I can think of is 'Why bother'?
LOL And my engineering friends down at powertrain said they switched to electric fans when they turned the engine sideways and there wasn't any pullies in front to run a belt to.

The 4th Gen F-bodies and Vettes, have sideways engines?

Cheap (at at least cheaply made) aftermarket fans generally have two problems. Some use no shroud which reduces their effectiveness. Others have a shroud but without a flap type provision to allow airflow past it under highway cruising conditions. I can see why you had a negative experience but you shouldn't condemn all electric fans because of it.

They started using the electric fan with the front wheel drive cars. I have personally owned a 4th gen F-body and the logical reason they have an electrical fan is because the engine sits way back from the radiator.

The fan that was on the car in my previous example was one of the best at Summit. It had a shroud. Probably at least as good as the questioner is dealing with. I stick with my advice to eBay the POS electric fan and put the cooling system back as original.

First of all, thanks for all the advice....anybody want to buy a pusher fan????

Secondly, what does this mean "do you have a 400 or a/c car? if so, do you have all the fillers 3 of them?"

I do have a 400 w/o air, but don't know what "fillers" are. Please explain.

You people are great. It will be a joy to participate in this forum.

Rich

Regardless weather you'd want to have the fan keep on running after shutdown or not, (keep in mind the fan kits available does not have a timer to only allowing the fan to work X-amount of time) Here's an article that You'll find interesting:

http://www.carcraft.com/howto/ccrp_0707_high_performance_cooling_system/index.html


Here's my setup: -Works perfect.

That's the exact electric flex-a-lite fan set-up I had on my TA. It's about the best one out there.

on 400 cars AND A/C cars (could be 326/350 a/c car) there were/are fillers that close up the area around the radiator on three sides...the X fillers (metal plates with stamped X across them, maybe for stabilizing the metal?) between the bumper and the radiator...
next ,there is a lower valance filler, that goes flat under the nose, behind the valance panel..its black (or should be)and closes under to the radiator....next there are 2 rubber filler ("masticated" fillers as called originally), theu close off the areas on either side of the radiator at the bottom....
you have these 3 places?

and YES, you have found , probably the BEST FGF forum...with nice people, and some even have knowledge...not me much ,but I know my fillers...lol

Rich, the fillers (baffles) are metal pieces that fill the gap from the core support to the front bumper assembly on both sides of the latch plate.



There is also a lower baffle that covers the gap between the valiance and the core support.