I've located this firebird near my house and the owner has agreed to sell it to me. I'm trying to get a good idea of the car is a good deal or a money pit. It is a 1969 convertible, A/C, 350, auto, console, power windows, power steering, top and brakes. He has been collecting parts for the car for over 20 years to do a T/A conversion and has all of the stuff to do the car PLUS lots of resto parts including NOS GM headlight surrounds, grilles, weatherstrips, etc. He has receipts for $3,400 in parts purchased for the car over the years including a brand new full interior and top for it. He wants $9,000 for the car. Body is pretty solid with only one swelled floor deam and some bubbling on the right rear quarter panel.
It depends on what your goals are for the car, but it looks like a good driver candidate, and reasonably well optioned, and fairly priced. If you have a full set of gold seatbelts you could probably find someone to buy them or swap for a set of black belts.
Some of the mods are most definitely dated '80s.
Have pics of the bad areas?
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
Welcome! Is that an original orange car? You have some serious, 'talking down' to do. I would say that a 30% drop in price is in order. Don't be afraid to talk him down even further than that. Good luck, it looks like a decent car if the price is right...
He won't come down much if any. What he says is that he is selling the car for $5,500 and the parts for $3,500. He won't budge on the parts because he has receipts for everything adding up to that amount. Some of the parts are now more valuable than back when he bought them. Like there is a pair of NOS GM door seals and of course the new NOS GM headlight surrounds and grilles. The car runs and drives fine supposedly. He's just had it up on jackstands for about 10 years.
Those parts aren't that valuable. There are good repros of them out now. If it was NOS sheet metal, that would be different. Suggestion; Tell him you will give him $4500 for just the car. Maybe you could say you are on a budget and want the car but will have to buy parts a little at a time. Tell him that he can get big money selling his old parts separately on eBay or somewhere. If you 'sell the idea' just right you may come out with a decent, very complete, project car for a good price. It's definitely a 'buyers market' right now. You have the upper hand.
Turn that frown upside down... when you get a great deal. He's only asking $5500 for the car, that's only coming down $1K. You weren't thinking of caving in and giving him everything he was asking for? This is a used car deal, talk him down!
I hear ya'. But I get the strong feeling it is going to be a take it or leave it type deal. I guess the way I was looking at it was I WOULD pay the $5,500 for the car since it is so solid and will not need the typical rust repair most older verts need. Then, he has vertually every part I would need tp buy anyway to restore the car AND covert it to a T/A clone which I was wanting to do anyway since I LOVE them so much. I got to see Milt Robson's collection when he had three T/A verts at the same time and have been in love with them ever since.
9k seems on the high end of reasonable to me. If you can do most of the work yourself, its likely a bargain. If you have to hire it out, its probably high. All old cars are money pits, we generally own them because we have a passion for them. Most of us would say our cars are worth more that they are due to emotional attachment.
A/C convertibles are worth a bit more too.
Do you know if the engine and trans are numbers matching to the body? $75.00 can get you a PHS fax back within a day as well. That info will help with clarifying originality.
I fully agree with Jim that its a buyer's market right now.
I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not sure. I feel like I am diagonally parked in a parallel universe. 1968 400 convertible (Scarlet) 1976 T/A - 455 LE (No Burt) 1976 T/A New baby, starting full restoration. 1968 350 - 4 speed 'vert - 400 clone (the Beast!) 1968 350 convertible - Wife's car now- 400 clone (Aleutian Blue) (Blue Angel) 2008 Durango - DD 2008 GXP - New one from NH is AWESOME! 2017 Durango Citadel - Modern is nice! HEMI is amazing! 1998 Silverado Z71 - Father-daughter project 1968 400 coupe - R/A clone (Blue Pearl) (sold) 1967 326 convertible - Sold 1980 T/A SE Bandit - Sold
I hear ya'. But I get the strong feeling it is going to be a take it or leave it type deal. I guess the way I was looking at it was I WOULD pay the $5,500 for the car since it is so solid and will not need the typical rust repair most older verts need. Then, he has vertually every part I would need tp buy anyway to restore the car AND covert it to a T/A clone which I was wanting to do anyway since I LOVE them so much. I got to see Milt Robson's collection when he had three T/A verts at the same time and have been in love with them ever since.
'Take it or leave it' is a sales ploy, not reality... Another reality is that it may look like it doesn't need any metal work but how do you really know until you get that old paint off it? That car needs a LOT of work. It's a good car that needs a lot of time and money sunk into it.
Rust wise I'm going by the rust free floors, rockers, door bottoms, trunk and quarter bottoms from the inside.
I'm going to go over on Friday and inventory the huge pile of parts that has has for the car with many of them new in the box. Besides original T/A stuff, are there some rare original NOS parts that I might look for that might tilt the purchase into the "WIN" column for me?
Go on eBay and see what the parts are going for. Use 'completed listings'. It's a good source for parts prices in the market 'realtime'. As far as the 'WIN' column; Do your best to talk him down and it will be a win. You only get one chance for that and it's NOW. It's a fine line but try to make freinds with him at the same time as talking him down 'realistically'. If he doesn't like you the deal will never be good.
Whatever you do, there will be another 20-30K to spend on that car to get it right, just be aware (unless you can weld, paint and upholster)...
1969 Firebird 350 Coupe, Rust free Texas body, formerly brown, now a TA clone with quality spoiler, latching hood and TA wheel; 1969 GTO Convertible Expresso Brown/Parchment(currently painted red). Both numbers matching. My first love was a Cameo White 67 326 Coupe, bought back in 1983, at the age of 17, for $1,200. Been hooked since on PONTIAC! Working on a 67 400 ragtop for customization-Gulf Turquoise/Parchment/400/4 spd! My winter project!
I just looked at some NOS parts prices!!! WOW, that's CRAZY. I guess I'm just going to hope there are a couple of diamonds in that pile of coal when I go look that might make the deal a no brainer. Wish me luck!
Oh, and yes I vcan weld, paint and do upholstery very well. Otherwise I could not afford to restore anything. I've just been doing "other makes" and was wanting to do something different to have a car that you just don't see every day. I've always wanted a 69 T/A vert but have never found a good starting point until this car came up. I've asked him about it for the last 5 years but he never would sell it until he found him a 55 Ford Victoria convertible he likes better and the resto costs are getting up there. Otherwise he never would have sold it.
Be careful. If the GM tag has a bar code it's not NOS. Those trim rings are a prime example, you can buy them right now like that. Look for tags like what you see on that tail pan. Those door weatherstripping are winners IF they are the real deal. Don't be fooled by the new stuff GM is putting out with the new stickers...
cash talks BS walks, be prepared, that car needs a lot of work, Nothing major, the motor and tranny will need some $$ thrown at it. If the car has been sitting on jackstands for 10 years chances are anything rubber (Front end parts) will likely be rotten.
I agree with Jim, try and talk him down a bit....it's the high end of reasonable now....it looks like its all there, but there is a lot of labour to get it cleaned up. Spending 20K is not out of line to get it there, I spent closer to 30K plus the body work.
James, don't listen to these cheapskates. If you like the car and want to build a TA, then go for it. Verts seem to be getting pricier these days. Around these parts this is what you get for a 4K 69 vert project.
Thanks Bob. I do like the car and I do want to build a T/A, but my brain won't let me enjoy it if I'm getting ripped off on the initial purchase price. Now, nobody has come out and said that, but that's the general impression they are giving me. I guess what it will all come down to is how many parts are in the pile and what the true value of the parts are. I'll know tomorrow morn when I go through them all.
Having said that, and not seeing many other pics of James candidate, I am erring on the side of caution, but if it is numbers matching and more or less complete as stated, I'd likely jump on it discounted or not....
If it is a numbers matching car, I would go for it at the price he is asking. If not, than offer less.
its not going to matter I think, IF he makes it a TA...itisstill numbers , but not 'correct'....
but if you like the car, buy it, make it "your way"...as a friend here in town did, his was a regular convertible, he made it a TA "his way"...used reverse paint scheme etc...
it even says in ghost paint under his rear spoiler....'TA my way'
I don't think the price is all that bad for such a complete car. It has decent options. It's very original. Yeah, it needs some work, but it's not going to be concours, so the cost is limited to bolt-ons and paint and interior.
Way better than beating down rust demons. But look it over very, very well.
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
OK, checked out the car today and there are not as many NOS parts as I was hoping. I did discover that it is an original power seat car though! There was however the following parts that come with it. Set of original wheels and caps, and some other items used like the original steering wheel.
New parts from Year One in the boxes are two brand new full quarter panels, every piece of rubber for the car including the top, Aftermarket new decklid and spoiler plus the original decdklid with a Camaro type spoiler, new T/A hood and side scoops, new T/A decal kit, 400 nose emblem, complete new black interior including seat buns, deluxe seat covers front and rear and new door panels, new windshield header bar chrome, new window felts, new rocker moldings, new rear bumper, 4 new door hinges, door handles, floor mats, and several other misc pieces.
The only REAL NOS stuff was the headlight surrounds and one grille.
If he ordered quarters then you know it needs metal work. If it's only on the shell, and the rockers and pinch welds are in perfect shape and the trunk is clean and solid, I would not hold that against it too much.
Calculate the new cost of the aftermarket parts and if in great shape, divide by two as some will be unusable or distressed after years of storage, especially the top and decals. Measure the decklid, as some of the repros run a bit long on the driver's side and stick out beyond the tail panel if the gap at the front is correct.
Power seats are a very rare option. Cool find!
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
Well I went and did it. I struck a deal on the Firebird vert. I tried my best to talk him down, but he budged not one penny. I never let on that I was REALLY wanting the car. I himmed and hawed with the best of them and it just did not work. Made the lower offers, offered to only buy the car (all or nothing) and it just didn't work.
He did throw in a brand new power brake booster and MC for a 67 GTO, a pair of NOS 67 GTO headlight bezels and a set of vintage tri-power carbs. He also put me onto a rough 67 GTO vert AND a 66 Lemans vert shell both for $1,600! So all was not lost. The 67 GTO has a nice set of rally II's on it I might use for the Bird. Anyways, I will go drag it all home sometime in the next week. Here is apic of the GTO vert with the Lemans behind it.
2012 Mustang Boss 302 #1918, Competition Orange. FGF replacement 2006 Mustang V6 Pony, Vista Blue. Factory ordered. 2019 BMW X3 (Titled to the wife, but I'm always driving it for her. So I'm claiming it) Old projects, gone but not forgotten: 1967 FB 400, original CA car. After 22 years of work, trashed by the guy who was supposed to paint it. I had to sell it. 1980 Turbo Trans Am 1970 Mustang fastback, 351C 4Bbl, auto 1988 Mustang GT, 5 speed 1983 F-150 4x4, built 302 1994 Chevy K2500 HD 4x4, 454 TBI
Congrats! That GTO vert could be a money maker at that price. Look for a VIN starting in 242 to verify it's a real GTO. If you need to sell GTO parts I have a buyer for you....
It is a real GTO with the 242 Vin and says "GTO" on the title. I'll be pulling the GTO out and cleaning it up a bit and e-baying that to hopefull make a few $$ to put towards the price of the Firebird so I don't feel like I overpaid.
Excellent idea. You are a savvy car buyer to be sure. One thing you might want to consider is getting the PHS documents on the GTO. Anyone buying it would want to see it and it may have been an HO, RA or tri-power car which would be worth more to a buyer.
He's only asking $5500 for the car, that's only coming down $1K. You weren't thinking of caving in and giving him everything he was asking for? This is a used car deal, talk him down!
It's a fine line but try to make freinds with him at the same time as talking him down 'realistically'. If he doesn't like you the deal will never be good.
