Bought a set of type 86ers. Started taking them out of the boxes and noticed they looked funny. One of the eight looked OK and had made in USA stamped on it and the box said made in USA. The other 7 had no stamp but the boxes said made in China. The Chinese ones look like cheap crap. The insulators arount the electrodes aren't even centered. They are going back to the store.
I scrounged up 14 of the remaining American made ones from all the local parts places. If I can just score 2 more I'll have enough to cover next year's plug replacement. Am I being too anal?
americans wont be making much of anything soon.it cost too much to make parts here.taxes,the epa,the high cost of labor,health insurance,vacation pay and all the other expenses a company has to pay to get an american to work makes it alot cheaper to make it abroad.we are doing it to ourselves
When you have a line worked at Delphi pulling a 6 figure salary, sitting on a stool and applying stickers to a/c components and getting paid their full salary when there isn't enough work. Think I am making this up? Nope, my Sister-in-law does just that! She works at the Delphi plant in Lockport, NY.
IMO This example is exactly the reason everything is foreign made! Unions serve a purpose I understand all of that. But come on, 6 figures to apply stickers! Total BS! Oh yeah, and her husband also works there, he was hired in the last few years, he falls under the "revised" agreement, he ONLY makes $19/hr. opposed to his wife's $28.50. Oh yeah, and he only gets 2/3 pay when there is no work instead of full pay...
americans wont be making much of anything soon.it cost too much to make parts here.taxes,the epa,the high cost of labor,health insurance,vacation pay and all the other expenses a company has to pay to get an american to work makes it alot cheaper to make it abroad.we are doing it to ourselves
I think with the fallen value if the US dollar, you will actually start to see more manufacturing back here in the U.S.
Not only is it now cheaper to produce products here, but people are starting to wake up to the fact that a lot of the imported stuff is just plain junk. My biggest imported product gripe lately is fasteners. (For work, car and home projects.) 10% failure rate is not seem to be uncommon. 10 friggin percent!
68' Firebird 400 convertible, numbers matching, solar red w/ deluxe parchment interior. 66' Pontiac Ventura Hardtop 66' Pontiac Catalina Convertible
When you have a line worked at Delphi pulling a 6 figure salary, sitting on a stool and applying stickers to a/c components and getting paid their full salary when there isn't enough work. Think I am making this up? Nope, my Sister-in-law does just that! She works at the Delphi plant in Lockport, NY.
IMO This example is exactly the reason everything is foreign made! Unions serve a purpose I understand all of that. But come on, 6 figures to apply stickers! Total BS! Oh yeah, and her husband also works there, he was hired in the last few years, he falls under the "revised" agreement, he ONLY makes $19/hr. opposed to his wife's $28.50. Oh yeah, and he only gets 2/3 pay when there is no work instead of full pay...
Reality check!! No line worker at Delphi has a salary. They are hourly. Delphi doesn't have enough work right now because the folks at American Axle are on strike because they are cutting their pay in half and taking away most of their benefits. I wouldn't be-little her job putting stickers on parts. Someone has to do it. I know the pay schedule at Delphi. Only the workers that hired in when it was GM are getting that kind of pay. It's scheduled to be cut back in increments. I bet she doesn't mention that out of pride.... You had two choices, either take a lump sum or a pay cut. And does she mention how her benefits have been drastically cut? Believe me, only the old timers at Delphi are getting decent pay and benefits and they are getting fewer and fewer. You also say her annual income is 6 figures... There's a whole lot of overtime involved to hit six figures at her rate. Enough overtime that her whole life is practically at Delphi. I suggest that anyone that wants to bellyache about how much an auto worker makes should spend a day inside the plants. It's just like a prison. The razor wire on top the fence faces in..... Unions are weak and offer no help to the employee anymore. They are an extension of the management now. The problem isn't the person actually doing work at Delphi. The problem is the people making 7 and 8 figure SALARIES and BONUSES for doing nothing but warming their chairs. They paid that Steve Miller character millions and millions to hold their hands through bankruptcy. There's waste of time in the labor for sure. The waste of money by management overshadows the hourly people 100 fold. I've seen millions of dollars wasted on bad decisions at the drop of a hat, before first break time. And a few more mill wasted before lunch. Then the waster will head out to the country club for the afternoon to decide how much of a bonus he should get for his wasteful morning...
American Axle is no longer on strike. I worked the last OT detail there yesterday. My friend works there and spoke to him yesterday. They are taking a $28.00 to $18.50 pay cut, and he is getting an appx. $110k buydown over 3 years. The benefits got hammered some as well. Since they make ONLY big truck (SUV) axles, and the SUV market is way down, cuts had to be made or layoffs. Look at what Ford announced yesterday regarding their SUV lines and layoffs. They have a choice..and a hard one, and they (American Axle) voted 4 to 1 to the referendum. And by the way, they got $200 a day, for a 4 hour day for strike pay. That is $50 an hour with limited benefits.
Do I agree? Would anyone agree? This country was founded in part to unions. Part of why the economy was so screwed up was from Unions, their want, their greed. I am a union worker. Is it right for one union worker to tout unfairness as to how well one gets paid or compensated? Yes.
There is a difference between "salary" and "wage". A salary is a fixed amount per hour as a "wage is the same, but can fluctuate.
Can a salary be a wage? Sure, IMO. I can work my 40 hour week for 2080 hours a year and be salaried. If I want, I can make my bonuses, court pay and OT to me a "wage" worker.
I am union, somewhere in constitutonality and by law, can not strike. Am I upset that my contract (increase) does not keep up with the cost of living? Am I upset when I have to pay more for benefits? Yes and no. I have a choice. I have a job and for the most part, stable. Was I upset when I was going to have to take a 10% pay cut, be laid off, reassigned? You bet...But at least I have a job.
Geting back to topic, Refuse to buy Chinese goods. I would take those plugs back and buy Delcos. I do not mind paying for a quality part (Irridiums) if recommended and worthy even if the price per is inflated.
We all have choices...to buy domestic, to buy a gas guzzler, to live the American dream, if you can call it that anymore. Now that dream requires smarter thinking to make ends meet. Fair? Cause and effect. It is not one particular groups influence ("Big Oil") nor is it extreme and sudden. This all has been coming for a long time.
FYI, I moonlight at receiving at Home Depot. 95% of the goods that come in is Chinese made. I make $70k a year at my union "wage" but work a $10 an hour job 20 hours a week to make up for what I need and what my union couldn't give me and what City "took" away.
Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
1967 Starlight black PMD Engineering 400 Auto 1968 Alpine Blue 400 4 speed 1968 Verdoro Green 400 HO 4 speed 2013 1LE 2SS/RS Inferno Orange Camaro.
Jim, if you read my entire post I do actually point out that her and her husband's hourly rate. I knew this would spark some heat, but it's my opinion. I know what the inside of these plants look like. My Dad worked at the Tonawanda engine plany from 60-77. Used to go through the plany on Fridays with him to get his check.
In addition, my Dad would be the first to admit the abuse on the worker's behalf. I can't tell you how many times my Dad stayed home from work while one of his union buddies punched him in and out for days when he didn't even go in. In turn he did the same for them.
I've heard every arguement known to man about how wonderful Unions can be. Bottom line in my opinion, they had a purpose, served many people well and fixed a lot of problems. Now, it is time for them to go away. Again, this is just my opinion, I don't intend to slam anyone individual, it's the overall fact that anyone I know that is in a union feels they are entitled to certain things, and that just rubs me wrong!
I have just one more point about auto workers and I'll get off the box; We all have choices. Choices of where to work. Most states around here have auto plants. That means that if you wanted to work there, and you put forth a decent effort to get hired, you would be an auto worker. Most who complain about what an auto worker gets paid have had the chance to have the job. Bottom line; You had your chance to work there and you decided you didn't want to. With that in mind, it's not right to complain about what someone gets paid to do a job that you wouldn't do for whatever personal reasons you have.....
I can also tell you first hand, I have seen my in-laws pay stubs. Yes, they both work a ton of OT for months on end, then, they run out of work. Last summer my wife's sister had 9 weeks off in the summer due to a "slow down". She collected her full hourly wage for those nine weeks. I know all of this because her and her husband make no bones about any of this as they love to brag about this type of thing and will ofter break out pay stubs to "prove" it.
Now I know someone may be reading this thinking "well, you are just jealeous" etc. All I can say to that is BS. For one, I had an opportunity in 1986 the year I graduated from HS to work at the GM plant in Riverside (Buffalo, NY). I gladly turned it down and my dad was pi$$ed at me at the time.
Two years later I had a similar offer to work for American Brass, another Buffalo factory. I turned that down as well. I can honestly say that I am glad I turned these jobs down and have never looked back.
My oldest brother has been working heavy construction for 32 years. He has never been in a union and never will be. He can tell more stories of all the BS the unions up in Buffalo have pulled over the years. The damage they have cause to equipment to prevent the non union guys from working. He can also tell you first hand stories about union workers beating the crap out of non union guys. Kinda ironic don't you think, the very reason unions were formed and now they condone this type of action and encourage it. No thanks! I'll struggle along and take care of myself thank you...
Jim, that's where most people miss my point. I am not the one complaining about how much anyone makes. My point is when other people complain about how much things cost and or why everything is being made over seas. That is the basis of my opinion right there. US made parts (let's say auto parts for this purpose) cost so much more due to the union's demands on wages/benefits etc. Therefore, most people are not willing to pay the higher price for US made and they will then buy the cheaper part made over seas.
Joe, They work a ton of overtime and then run out of work because MANAGEMENT asks them to do it that way. Maybe you should attack management at Delphi instead of the workers for this....
The SCABS: Scab labor deserves a black eye anytime they are in reach. Just like illegal aliens, they could do it the right way like so many do. Instead, they choose to cheat the ones that get the jobs with their credentials and pay their dues.
One last time, I want to clarify that I am not slamming anyone as an individual on this site or anywhere else for that matter. I just get so fired up when I hear a union worker complaining about jobs going overseas, foreign made products etc.
It seems so obvious to me why this is happening but I never hear anyone who feels the same way I do, so maybe it is me who has the wrong opinion about this... LOL
I guess I should just be like the rest of the people in this country and ignore this stuff and keep my opinions to myself. I'd probably be further ahead. LOL
I don't know why but I only get fired up over two topics, this one and politics. Geeze, you'd think I'd avoid these things as much as possible!! LOL
The real reason why things are cheaper from other countries is because of the different rules and conditions there. Employees make pennies instead of dollars in other countries(comparitively). Clean air standards for manufacturing? There are none. Toxic run off clean up? There is none. There is no health care to speak of in most of the places the American plants have moved to. Bottom Line; There's no way we can compete with plants that can pollute at will and have no responsibilities with their employees.... It's cheaper to make parts in a dirty fashion. It's cheaper to have disposible employees that work for pennies a day. That's why things from China, and the like, are cheaper...
Therefore, if the unions would be just a bit more realistic in their "demands" and accept a decent wage vs. outrageous wages, be a bit more realistic with their benefit demands, let's say 2-3 weeks off for vacation vs. 5,6,7,8, have the workers pay a little bit of their health care vs. none, maybe drop the dental coverage and have the worker pay for their kid's braces like the rest of us, then US made products would be only twice as much as the foreign made vs. 3,4,5 times as much and more people would be willing to buy the US made products.
I don't know, maybe I am way off base on this. Afterall, you know what they say about opinions...
They work a ton of overtime and then run out of work because MANAGEMENT asks them to do it that way. Maybe you should attack management at Delphi instead of the workers for this....
The SCABS: Scab labor deserves a black eye anytime they are in reach. Just like illegal aliens, they could do it the right way like so many do. Instead, they choose to cheat the ones that get the jobs with their credentials and pay their dues.
Ah, Jim, you really never learned, did you? Maybe your career with GM was so fulfilling and so rewarding that you feel the need to defend the union and attack the management.
Summer slowdowns have been a part of the industry since virtually the beginning, as new model year changeovers were made in the plants. Then assembly got some time off, and other crews got all the OT. Tons of overtime is actually CHEAPER than hiring more workers, because of the expense of benefits and HR, and because once in, those workers are part of the system and it's hard to cut them free to meet market demands.
Unions are against the true meaning of free enterprise in the American economy, and impair the ability of business to adapt and change to meet market demands. If you cannot control the size and expense of your labor pool, how do you address a shrinking market and demand for less expensive, less profitable products? You send the work overseas, to be made by less expensive labor.
I have been both a union worker and a business owner. I believe that for manufacturing, the unions have lost their significance. Now that pay scales have gone down, why pay into the unions? What good are they doing, except making very nice incomes for the union chiefs, and acting as political action committees to meet someone else's agenda?
Your comment on non-union workers is appalling. We've been down this road before. What, in your mind, makes a union-protected worker more skilled and more valuable than someone with the same job description from a non-union shop? The way unions have always acted out against non-union employees shows that they are more into protecting their own interests than supporting, growing, and improving the companies they invade or aiding the workers who pay into the scheme beyond strong-arm tactics. And that's not good for anyone in the manufacturing/consumer chain.
Oh, and according to Federal labor laws, my job description is INELIGIBLE for overtime rates because it is considered an administrative job. You got it, over 40 hours I only get straight time, no matter where I work. Fair? No. But do I need a union to set things right? No.
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
Let's see...you have insulted the skills and intelligence and motives of hundreds of thousands of NON-UNION workers and it's okay, but I comment on your repetitive blindly pro-union stance and it's a personal insult?
What about the REST of what I said, or does it touch too close to home?
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
On a lighter note, I found two more american made plugs at the NAPA. Now I have a complete set for next year. I didn't want to be experimenting with a different plug. My motor seems to like the Autolite 86's.
Let's see...you have insulted the skills and intelligence and motives of hundreds of thousands of NON-UNION workers and it's okay, but I comment on your repetitive blindly pro-union stance and it's a personal insult?
What about the REST of what I said, or does it touch too close to home?
Just to be clear, Non Union Worker does not equal a SCAB. SCABS cross the picket line. The rest of what you said falls by the wayside when you start with a personal attack. The opening shows what your motives are... I will not play into it. Too happy for that.
My 2 cents on unions, since this is my thread that got hijacked...
It seems like the purpose of unions is to protect the slackers. Then the hard workers quit trying to do well when they see the slackers getting away with murder. It's like communism. Everybody gets paid the same whether they do a good job or not. It makes it easier on the managers since they just negotiate with the unions for the wages and don't have to worry about punishing the slackers and rewarding the hard workers. And another thing....The real crime with unions in how political they are. My wife had to be in a civil service union for the crappy part time job she had with the school. I could not believe the anti-Bush propaganda that would show up in the mail each month from the union. It enraged us. And I'm sure her dues went to fund Democrat lefties.
Hi, Bob, sorry about the hijack, I need to go look at the Autolites I just bought...
Let's see...you have workers with job protection who complain about either the contract they signed or the contract they want, and on the other hand you have workers who are willing to work for what is offered, and they are the bad guys, get their cars vandalized, get assaulted when they try to make a living?
I see things in a different way having worked in both union and non-union, employee and management roles.
There was absolutely nothing personal about the statements I made. Don't stand up blindly for unions if you don't have the full picture. Corporations are not innocent either, I am not promoting their views. It's the whole diseased system that needs to go before it's too late.
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
My 2 cents on unions, since this is my thread that got hijacked...
It seems like the purpose of unions is to protect the slackers. Then the hard workers quit trying to do well when they see the slackers getting away with murder. It's like communism. Everybody gets paid the same whether they do a good job or not. It makes it easier on the managers since they just negotiate with the unions for the wages and don't have to worry about punishing the slackers and rewarding the hard workers. And another thing....The real crime with unions in how political they are. My wife had to be in a civil service union for the crappy part time job she had with the school. I could not believe the anti-Bush propaganda that would show up in the mail each month from the union. It enraged us. And I'm sure her dues went to fund Democrat lefties.
Sorry about the soap box and hi-jack, although most of it does apply to the spark plugs being made in China. And you are right, there's a lot wrong with the unions....
In the industry that I work in, one dept used to be union (our company came to an agreement with the union) and my dept has never been union. The guys that used to be union don't get paid holidays, PTO, vacation, and other benefits. I think that sucks for them. All of our competition still has unions and I have a few friends in them. They say that they really don't do anything for them other than balance out everyones pay. I have also done a lot of work a facilities that are union; GM Arlington plant, Delta Airlines,....; and I have witnessed some of them take advantage of all day long breaks while others were working hard. I have never been union but from what I've seen and heard I don't want to be, okay maybe for the l..o..n..g breaks! Just my opinion, never done it so I don't know the full story.
I've worked at 7 GM plants, all union. The only time I had long breaks was because management was bad at managing time. I can't think of a time I had a long break because of the union. Why would you have a long break because of the union? The union got us two 20 minute breaks and a half an hour lunch. If you call that long, then blame it on the union. Just like any other job, it's the boss who has to do the work to get the slackers back to work when the break is over.... Like I said, there's a lot wrong with the unions, but long breaks are managements problem....
While I understand that negotiating with thousands of individual employees for wages and benefits would be difficult if not impossible, it's also not necessary. The labor pool is big enough that a wage and benefit package could be posted and the jobs filled by those who want them.
The problem with union workers for management is that it is just about impossible to cut loose underperforming or no-show employees, which cuts the morale of other workers, and it prevents adjusting staffing levels to market shifts.
It's great that a couple of generations were able to build better lives for themselves and their families in a growing economy, but now that the economy is shrinking the concept needs to be rethought. Expeicting to make a career with a single employer and to be (this is the phrase that really tees me off) ENTITLED to wages and benefits in excess of average is just not realistic if we want to keep our economy rolling.
Vikki 1969 Goldenrod Yellow / black 400 convertible numbers matching
I've worked at 7 GM plants, all union. The only time I had long breaks was because management was bad at managing time. I can't think of a time I had a long break because of the union. Why would you have a long break because of the union? The union got us two 20 minute breaks and a half an hour lunch. If you call that long, then blame it on the union. Just like any other job, it's the boss who has to do the work to get the slackers back to work when the break is over.... Like I said, there's a lot wrong with the unions, but long breaks are managements problem....
Like I said, never done it so I don't know the full story, but these are my observations of local facilities that are union. They maybe abusing the system or it could be poor management, I don't know. With my job I have had the ability to observe every type of business over the last 10 years.
When we work at the American Airlines hanger we would only get in about 4 hours of work. The reason is that we had to be escorted around and could not touch anything with out them. They had a "I just got to work break"(8-8:30), "pre-lunch break"(11-11:30), lunch(11:30-12:30), "after lunch break"(12:30-1) and a "fixing to leave break"(3-3:30). This is what we were told by their employees and maybe they are abusing the system, I don't know. But I understand why American Airlines is in bad shape, a least by working at some of their local facilities.
Now at GM Arlington I've seen the same employees in the break room all day watching tv and on the phone. I've seen a guy punch holes in the side of a new Tahoe shell with a forklift and laugh about it. They ruined one of our scissor lifts out their by punching a hole through the battery box and batteries. One of GM's big executives was friends with one of our sales guy and together they "laundered" over $100k of fake service tickets and split the money. Maybe it's the management.
Now on the other hand, when I go out to Peterbilt assembly plant it's a different world. Those are hard working, well organized and trained employees. Have yet to see a slacker there over the years I've been going.
And just to make it fair, my company is probably one of the most corrupt businesses out there. Remember Dennis Kozlowski, I work for "that" company. We have been very close to have a monopoly on the industry several times. Guys used to be home before lunch time everyday. Then they put trackers on our trucks to "watch" everything we do. It is an automatic system that sends an email to our boss if we leave the house after 7am, get home before 4pm or drive faster than 75mph. It knows when you turn the truck on and off. Everything in between they have to watch. I don't think it's that bad as long as they give me enough work to do for the day.
Yah. Someone people have integrity and work for a living and others are just plain lazy. Since GM employs a lot of people they have their share of lazy, good for nothing, employees. They fire employees every day for not doing there job. When management doesn't do their job there's many people walking around and sitting in break areas. There's no one to fire management for sitting in their offices and not making employees work. I have owned my own business with 9-12 employees and it's darn hard to get people to work sometimes. If the person who is supposed to make them work isn't doing anything then some will take advantage of it. If you can actually see people sitting in the break area all day then who's at fault for that? It sounds like there's a foreman out there that didn't even look at the break area like you did...
And the GM executive that got caught laundering money of course did not get fired, only got moved to a position that didn't involve dealing with contractors. Same with our sales guy that got caught, they gave him a choice to transfer to a different office and position or resign. He chose to transfer. But if a "less important" employee got caught doing something that involved a 1/10 of that money, they'd be fired!
I've seen a hourly man get fired at GM for having a half a sheet of company sandpaper in his pocket when he walked out the gate. I've also see a man get wrote up for being in the restroom for 5 minutes too long. Three write ups and you are fired. In most departments you do get 10 minutes at the end of your shift to change your clothes/coveralls. I don't think that is too wasteful of time, but that's just my opinion....
They work a ton of overtime and then run out of work because MANAGEMENT asks them to do it that way. Maybe you should attack management at Delphi instead of the workers for this....
The SCABS: Scab labor deserves a black eye anytime they are in reach. Just like illegal aliens, they could do it the right way like so many do. Instead, they choose to cheat the ones that get the jobs with their credentials and pay their dues.
Ah, Jim, you really never learned, did you? Maybe your career with GM was so fulfilling and so rewarding that you feel the need to defend the union and attack the management.
Summer slowdowns have been a part of the industry since virtually the beginning, as new model year changeovers were made in the plants. Then assembly got some time off, and other crews got all the OT. Tons of overtime is actually CHEAPER than hiring more workers, because of the expense of benefits and HR, and because once in, those workers are part of the system and it's hard to cut them free to meet market demands.
Unions are against the true meaning of free enterprise in the American economy, and impair the ability of business to adapt and change to meet market demands. If you cannot control the size and expense of your labor pool, how do you address a shrinking market and demand for less expensive, less profitable products? You send the work overseas, to be made by less expensive labor.
I have been both a union worker and a business owner. I believe that for manufacturing, the unions have lost their significance. Now that pay scales have gone down, why pay into the unions? What good are they doing, except making very nice incomes for the union chiefs, and acting as political action committees to meet someone else's agenda?
Your comment on non-union workers is appalling. We've been down this road before. What, in your mind, makes a union-protected worker more skilled and more valuable than someone with the same job description from a non-union shop? The way unions have always acted out against non-union employees shows that they are more into protecting their own interests than supporting, growing, and improving the companies they invade or aiding the workers who pay into the scheme beyond strong-arm tactics. And that's not good for anyone in the manufacturing/consumer chain.
Oh, and according to Federal labor laws, my job description is INELIGIBLE for overtime rates because it is considered an administrative job. You got it, over 40 hours I only get straight time, no matter where I work. Fair? No. But do I need a union to set things right? No.
vikki,you hit the nail right on the head.when i go for a quote to have a part made,the first place i look is abroad cause it is too expensive to make here.and jim,you are totally mis-guided
I like how your post starts with a personal insult. I'm not going there... I will ignore your insults. 
<-----JIM
