Hello all, I'm new here but really have been wanting to restore one of these for quite a few years now. I will post some pics of 2 possible cars I have found locally that the owner may be willing to part with for the right price. My question is how much should I offer him for either or even both?

two 67 Firebirds, one has factory P/S, P/B and A/C it is green with black interior. It came with a 326 but has a 250 OHC engine in it now and is an automatic. The second one is white with red interior and has a 326 engine with automatic transmission. They need total restorations.
Sorry if I come off as a total newbie but I'm still learning alot. Thanks for any and all help.

Brett

What is your final goal? I know you said "restore", but that is interpreted many different ways.

If your goal is to have a car you can show, I'd suggest you keep looking and start with a much better car.

If your goal is to have a nice driver/cruiser and you have a few years and a healthy budget ($25,000 or more, possibly) then I would suggest you keep looking and start with a much better car. Then you can drive it sooner.

If your goal is to have a daily driver, you have no long-term plans to pass the car on to another owner or to a family member, for low five figures you can get these there. If you can do your own welding and painting you'll do a bit better. The steel itself is not too pricey, it's the labor. And that's assuming you do all the mechanical, electrical, and interior work.

If your goal is to have a car in your barn that is started on enthusiastically but lingers on for years as budget trickles in, you've found the right cars. When they've been exposed to the elements and left to sit like these have, there is nothing that won't need either replacement, restoration, or repair. And all that equals time, money, or both. A lot of cars in this class go back onto eBay or Craigslist every couple of years, with a couple thousand more dollars invested and little progress made.

If you are really interested in taking this path, I wouldn't offer over $2,000 for either. Based on what I see, probably less. Both cars need everything. And be sure they have clear titles.

OK thanks, I really just want to restore it slowly in my garage cause I don't have a ton of money to just sink into it. The guy said someone offered him 500 a piece years back and he was insulted and frankly I felt 1000 for each would be fair, don't you think? My other question would be which one if I had to pick judging from the pictures? the one w/ the original 326? and btw im an electrician and can do all the electrical and my brother runs a local body shop so that would def. save me a ton of money. Thanks again

Welcome Brett, ditto what Vikki said.

If you had to choose one, I would pic the one with the 326V8. It's hard to find a good OHC builder and parts may be harder to come by. There are some known OHC builders but none that I know of in your area unless your willing to ship it. The 326V8 interchanges with many Pontiac V8 parts.

No problem being a newbie. Everyone was one once. If you stick around, you'll be helping others before you know it.

In general, original number matching cars have higher resale value than a similiar car with a non-original same type of engine car. Bottom line is always what the buyer is willing to pay.

Forgot to add, you can offer him $1000 to see if he bites. If not, you can offer him more if you want. I think $2000 should be the max.

I usually figure right at around $15-16K for a fair rebuild/restore but that's assuming I'll do most of the work myself. So figuring what the car would sell for when done, don't expect to make any money on it. If it's worth that(or more) to you to have a nice ride to cruise then keep the prize in sight and go for it.

welcome to the forums!! i am a newbie to all this also and am right there with you on getting the bird restored. Goodluck!!

both those need quite a bit of work as I can see , and probably need more than one can see also....I wouldnt offer over $1000 for either one...

Hard to say about price. For me any how.
But if you can buy just one, i would get the one with the most solid body.
It would be both less costly and time comsuming.
One the other hand, depending on what each one needs(and condition), may work out better buy'n both to make one good one.
And re-cop some $ sell'n off left over parts.

I'd offer free towing and disposal.

From the looks of things, I doubt either would be numbers matching when you are done.

The blocks are probably only good for boat anchors...

Welcome from one Brett to another...

Normally I'd lean towards saving one of the cars you found, but to be honest, right now is a great time to be looking and in the market to buy. You have MANY more options now than just this time last year. The prime time to buy is about the first of the year through about the end of April. (best prices, more motivated sellers who have Holiday bills to pay or upcoming taxes and have lost interest over the winter)

With that said, I would seriously suggest doing your home work, decide what options, combination's you really want or have to have, and then find the best car you possibly can for the budget you have.

I searched for about a year to find my 67 drop top and was looking for about an 80% complete car (needing maybe a motor, interior or paint but not all of the above) Figure out how much time and money you honestly will have to put into it, hit the catalogs to get a good idea of what it will cost for major parts to replace to judge how much a cars value is to you... your always better off finding a lost interest project than something so neglected...

I can tell you that I've had my car for about 8 years and while I've done all the work on it since I've owned it, it was in great shape before I got it and I'm still way under the $10K mark including purchase price, airline ticket and truck/trailer rental to bring it home with. So if you do your home work, it can save you a LOT of time and money.

I got mine home with a bad motor, had a new motor and was driving it to it's first show with in a month... enjoying it is key!

Hang in there and make your wish list and do some serious hunting...

Good luck and keep us posted!

Brett - 67 Drop Top 455!

I would seriously reconsider if I were you. Cars like these two will cost more than you ever imagined possible to get them to a driver level. I've seen people make this exact mistake time and time again.

I always use my own car as an example, I bought it in 2000 for $5500. The car has never had to ANY sheet metal work to this date and I have still got about 15k into the car (above what I paid for the car). All that and I still have a car that is just a basic driver quality car maybe a 5 out of 10 just to give you an idea. Just be cautious...

5 out of 10?
Looks more like a 10/10 from the pic's.

LOL pics have a way of making cars look nicer than they are. In addition I am a pretty harsh critic(s) when it comes to my own car as there are several things I am not happy with. My focus for the last nine years has been to round eveything up to make the car complete and stock/original as possible. Now it's time to go back through the ole girl and make her right!

Well I went to see the cars today, the white one is roached bad while the green one is decent shape, but alas the dude wants 4000 and won't split the pair so I guess it's back to the classifieds, ugh

You're probably better off in the long run. Usually if it feels like a bad deal to begin with, you're best off just to let it go. Keep looking. Be patient. Something will turn up and you'll be glad you waited.

That's the other problem now days. These people sitting on old cars now think they are all worth a boat load of cash. Totally insane.

I just looked at a basket case today. Get this, a 69 GTO conv. all numbers matching drive train. Car is absolutely roached to say the least. He has the PHS and the car is one of only a couple hundred made as it is H.O. engine, four speed w/air and it's a vert. The mechanic who redid the a/c in our van has this car in his shop. I can not even imagine attemting a resto on this thing but he is just now getting under way!

they look like good part cars for me

I bought my car and work on it when i can and have the cash I also have a friend that helps with the body work. the car I started with was a driver then I tour into it that winter I still have a ways to gobut all the big stuff is done . now it's the little stuff, not cheap but I keep going on it. the car when i found it is under the tarp sat there for four years i changed the oil plugs points and drove it home. I spent $3500.00 maybe too much i do not know not to me I new who had it before me. he had got it in 83. some day i will finish it just thought I would give a little idea
Tim

to help give more ideas..
I spent $8000 for mine 9 yrs ago (convertible)...it was driveable...but had parts of interior missing, one front fender a different red color...a 400 engine w 9k on it , car was orig. a 350...hood had burnmark from a carb fire, cracked windshield, rusted header bars ,ripped top,rust in rear qtrs, gas guage didnt work, in the 4 bbl carb only 2 were working , oldmobile rims (3 were bent),several missing parts...car ran hot. now I have "fairly" nice car...total "investment", a little over $25k (incl purchase), and would hope to get around $20k + for it if sold , but i`m not selling it...

I agree with previous statements. If you want a car where every bolt and nut has been replaced or gone through your hands and you like the fact that you build it from the ground up, and you have enough time, craftsmanship, patience and money, then it's great to pick up a project like this. But then the goal of your hobby is the restoring itself. If you see restoring as necessary obstacle to get a driver, then don't start something like this. The frustration of money burning, time consuming endless sessions with slow progress and a lot pof disappointments along the way is only doable for the hard-core restorer who does it for the joy of restoring itself. JMO.

I bought a nice car for a bout 10k (in the current market you can get much better deals), started a "rolling" resto, replacing all weather stripping, battery, starter, ignition, cables, bushings, gas tank and tubes, springs, shocks, etc etc and slowly making progress updating different parts of the car, while being able to drive it in between. That is the only way for me, at this point in my life anyway..

Off course I like many dream of doing a total resto perhaps, one day, but I do realise that it is the quesion if I can make it through....

I respect the ones that do it though!

This one might get you on the way!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Pontiac-Firebird-350-auto_W0QQitemZ200351180599QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2ea5dc6737&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A317%7C240%3A1318

Hey Brett,
I am currently trying to restore my 68. It needs a lot of work. When you look at restoring a car no matter what condition you start out, unless its cherry from the get go, in it's going to be a money pit. My fiance has a 79 TA and he has over $4 grand in the engine alone. The body, interior, and paint are going to get a final price of $6 grand and he is the second owner of the car. As you can see from my pics my 68 is in about or worse condition than your two you are looking at. Yes having people in your family and friends to help is great and you can save money, but don't count on it. If you can afford it I'd snag both. You will always need parts. I think $1,000 a piece is fair. I purchased mine for $2,200. But think about your overall outcome. When you are all said and done money, labor, and all the goodies in between what do you want? Money will come with time or on credit cards or a loan and do you have time to spend working on the car. As in several years or do you want it right now. Do you want something as a daily driver or a street machine? Do you want to restore it back to factory specs or have fun? All of this should be considered before you buy a muscle car. I know you've thought about all of this, but it doesn't hurt to hear it again. I've already sunk $500 into mine buying an engine and wheels. If you do the work yourself you will enjoy the car more, but enjoying driving it is fun too. Hope this helps.