Is it possible to get ALL the orange peel out of a paint job?

Thanks,

Ron
1969 Firebird, 4-speed Coupe

Depends on how much paint is left after you are done sanding it level...

Been there, done that in the past. But I could only blame myself for not paying attention during shooting. One car I did was so bad I ended up re-stripping down to metal and starting over. I got a whole lot better at painting after that. I remember black being the toughest color to shoot.

Did you do it yourself, or hire it?

I am having my car built. I am not a gear head like most in here but I am trying to learn everything I can by watching, reading, and talking to everyone I can.

At the moment my car is disassembled, has been media blasted and is in apoxy. I have been waiting for the metal work to begin for awhile now. There are a couple of cars in front of me being put back together. So I am being patient and saving money at the same time.

I know my builder/painter knows what he is doing but I like to get opinions of others as well.

Thanks,

Ron
1969 Firebird, 4-speed Coupe

If a couple of cars are in front of yours, it will be a great learning experience to view those as they progress. You will be amazed at how much you have learned by the time they get to your car. I waited 14 months for my '67 to get worked on. But by the time they were done with it, I loved it. The shop had no problem with me stopping by two or three times a day to take pictures, ask (or answer) questions, etc.

I used to do stuff like that for a hobby, but no time for it now so I hired it out. There are a ton of in-progress shots on my photobucket.

If you are hiring out the bodywork, it's highly unlikely you will have any orange-peel issues. If there are issues with the cars in front of yours, I'd look elsewhere while you still have time.

All paint with the exception of laquers will have some degree of orange peel in them. They do have some modern laquers that meet the EPA standards now. Might want to ask about that.

I agree with Dr Drivability. If you look closely at even the higher priced new cars, you'll see some faint orange peel under the clear coat.

Orange peel also makes slight dings and dents less noticeable and easier for the PDR guys to fix. I have a buddy that works for Dent Wizard and he pulled all the dings out of my doors that accumulated over the years...did a great job.

If it has a good clear coat on it orange peel can be sanded out. I had quite a bit when my BCCC job was done, I chose to wetsand the whole car smooth and power buff it back. Turned out awesome...

Just don't wet sand THRU the clear or your in trouble

Almost, or I should say, ALL cars from the factory come with some orange peel, even the new corvettes have orange peel, If you have a quailty shop doing your paint I'm sure you will still have some orange peel unless you specify that you want it buffed and polished. You can save money by doing it yourself, BUT, you need to know what your doing. Colorsanding is the "KEY" to a perfect showroom finish, where it looks like you are looking into a mirror, the color is so deep you could fall in. I've done this several, several times, but it takes practice, patience, and knowledge, but "ANYONE CAN" do it. Make sure the paint shop puts on at least 3 coats of clear. WET sand, start with 1000 grit paper and a soft foam block, use good paper like 3m, buy it in the sheets and split them down the middle,fold them over your foam block, this will give you three sides of paper to use.Keep the paper wet, I use a bucket of water to keep my paper in, and also a spray bottle, i also use a little bit of dish soap in the water. Remove most of the peel with the 1000 grit, then move to 1500, and remove the 1000 grit scratches with the 1500, and the rest of the peel, then move to 2000, to remove the 1500 grit scratches, all your orange peel and dust nibs, should be gone by this point. From there you can buff it out with a GOOD quality buffer and " 3m Perfect It" or "System One" polish, system one is nice you have one polish and three pads, where as the 3m has three polishes, and 2 pads. Don't buy a cheap buffer from Wal mart or the likes go with a Dewalt or Makita, or that type. This can be done by anyone, just give yourself plenty of time, it doesn't have to be done in a couple days, it can go up to a week if working in the evenings or when ever you get the time. Just be very careful near the edges,because the paint is very thin there, and if you burn through the clear your not gonna like that. It's always nice to have someone to ask questions when you first start out, so let me know, I would consider myself an expert on this subject. Just to clarify, "color sanding is not sanding the COLOR, it is sanding the clearcoat, Your base gives you the color, but it is very dull, then when you apply the clear, that is where the shine come from. There is more to it than this breif paragraph, but it gives you an idea, and some questions you can ask your paint shop about. Maybe i'll do a "how to" on this, if people are interested????

I believe it took me about 40 hours to do mine, I did use a cheaper Chinese polisher and it worked fine. There are some good descriptions of the process on the internet, but you will notice everyone has a variation. I read thru about 10 of them and then did what I was most comfortable with. The hardest part was the initial sand into a new paint job!! But after I did a test panel and was comfortable I just went at it.

I know even before paint is applied to a car many hours of body work must be completed before a near perfect paint job is accomplished. I understand the slicker the paint the more time and of course more money is needed.

The thought of rebuilding a car from the ground up with every part on the car new or redone (with upgrades), and to have a detailed car but to have a so-so paint job seems like a waste.

When I first look at a car I see the wheels, tires, and stance. (These 3 make a huge impression about the attitude of the car) The next area I see is the paint job. Most are clean but some stand out like a sore thumb.

I am not painting my car. My builder is completing all the work except for the engine work (Butler Performance will handle the engine work) and maybe a few other details.

I am not wealthy so my car is being built in stages (when money is availably) and I am not the only car in the shop. So for a little more money I think I will try and shoot for that near perfect orange peel free paint job. (and hopefully there will be no insects in the booth when the paint is sprayed).

Everyone's thoughts?

Thanks and please keep the idea's and info coming.

Ron
1969 Firebird, 4-speed, Coupe

Do you put one coat of clear on the car then sand then add another layer of clear then sand again or do you put all 3 to 4 coats of clear onthen sand?

Thanks for everyone's help.

Ron
1969 Firebird, 4-speed Coupe

Actually it doesn't take more money to make your car "SLICKER or SHINNIER" once the clear is layed down, it's all labor from there.You can do that yourself, have the shop paint and clear then you do all the labor. If you want them to colorsand and buff it will be quite a bit more, it's alot of work, almost all of it is sanding by hand, over and over again.

Put all the clear on at once. Let it set for a day or two, then start the color sanding.Depending on the clear, you can start sanding the next day, if your in a hurry or a production shop.

There is such a thing called "FLOW COATING" and I have also done this,I will post a pic of a truck I did. Flow Coating is when you finish painting your color then your clear, just like everything else, but you sand the clear with 500-600 grit wet sanding, then re-apply another couple coats of clear. This is alot of work, but the finish is awesome. I didn't flowcoat my bird, but I did colorsand and buff it, and the finish is killer. You could clean your teeth in the finish like looking in a mirror. I'll post pics of both.

The truck was flow coated but the firebird wasn't, you really can't tell the difference, unless you see them in person, the truck has pearl in it also that doesn't show up in photos, but it gives you an idea of the shine.On a sunny day it's hard to look straight at the truck, because it is so bright, but it is like a mirror. If you go to the photobucket site there are more pics and better quality. I'm happy to answer any more ?? And I'm sure ther are more people on here who have painted and they can give you some advice too.

My '66 Le Mans was sanded between clear coats. With the large, flat panels it was almost necessary. Like you said, you could use it as a mirror the reflections were so smooth and sharp.

So with Flow Coating you lay one coat of clear down then sand off all the orange peel then add another coat?

Sorry for the bone head questions. I have never painted a car but I like to know the options on painting. I am not painting my car. My builder is.

Thanks for the help.

Ron
1969 Firebird, 4-speed Coupe

Hi Vikki. If you do sand between coats, does it make the next clear coat uneven?

Ron
1969 Firebird, 4-speed Coupe

I suppose if you were to measure the thickness of the clear in mils, there would be some variation. Usually thicker in the gill areas, thinner near panel edges. But visually the surface is perfect, far smoother than any current production car and approaching the slickness of a reflow lacquer finish, but with far greater visual depth due to the clear coat.

But does it take care of all the orange peel?

What orange peel? The base coat doesn't have any, and sanding the clear coats removes all orange peel when done properly. It's very labor intensive and time consuming, and if someone else is doing it the cost will be significant.

You can get a very good finish by sanding out the top coat of clear without sanding between coats. Perhaps not quite the same level of perfection, but much better than the ordinary shoot and drive paint job.

No matter how good the paint application, no matter how even the clear coat is applied, no matter how well it's sanded, any imperfections in the body and any in the primer will be magnified. Proper prep is more important than sanding the finish.

Amen...so true! Get the body prep right, put on the base and all the clear, then colorsand. You will be happy!

Oh...and this entire discussion hinges on the use of a basecoat/clearcoat system. Not an enamel or other single stage paint.

When applying clear it all "MELTS" together if sprayed within the "RECOAT" window, which is usually between 10-25 minutes, at 70 degrees. So orange peel in the first appplication of clear, really isn't a factor, it is the last coat, if sprayed withen the "WINDOW" that will have the most effect on orange peel. I know with PPG Deltron clear you can over reduce the clear on the last application, to help reduce orange peel, and help MELT the clear coats together, because they will still be "WET". If you sand between every coat of clear like Viki did, you better be very careful, because your not going to a very high build of clear, and you could burn through the clear, into the color. And your going to work until your arms fell like they're gonna fall off. You can get a real nice shiney, reflective, paint job just by colorsanding the peel out, and buffing, and polishing. I still recommend at least 3 coats of clear before color sanding, especially if you have never done it before. And by the way Vikki, that is a sweet ride, I have always loved that body style.

Yep, the shop did that car for me, they sprayed three coats of clear bam-bam-bam to build a base, then sanded it out, then three or four more coats, then sanded again. I'd have been satisfied with half the work for the price...but I was absolutely awed by the end result. The same shop just painted my dad's car, it still needs final polish and cleanup, but it's just as sweet.

Remember I know nothing about painting a car only what I have read, seen on tv, and information from others. Sounds like everyone has there own way to paint a car.

There is a '66 GTO that was recently painted at the shop where my car is. It has beautiful shine and depth. But I noticed at the ends of the back of the car and at the front of the corner panel where the conrner panel meets the door there is orange peel. Looks like it is built up in these area's. What is this? Can this be taken out? I plan on talking to my builder about this specific situation and what he is going to do about it or if anything can be done.

Everyone's thoughts?

Thanks,

I'm sure they were just being cautious, and not wanting to burn through the clear, remember the clear is very thin on the edges.

That's a good thought Joe.