Which is the best way to go, New Full Quarters with Sails or Patch Panels?

There is a big pitted area on the quarter where it meets the window. There is a small dent close to the small window on the side, and rust has eaten away some of the area around the wheel and lower part of the back quarter. (All of this is on the drivers side quarter)

The passenger side quarter has very little pitting close to the window but has the same rust issues like driver's side.

I thought about putting a Full Quarter on the driver's side but patching the passenger's side.

Also, I am going to need a full truck pan so using a Full Quarter would give me the opportunity to put a complete full truck in without cutting it into.

Everyone's thoughts?

Thanks

More photo's of my '69.

I would like to keep all original metal (but it's just a basic '69 Firebird with factory air, 4-speed, 8 track, etc.)as possible but I do not want any trouble down the line with patch panel work showing through the paint. I would rather take care of the problem now since the car is down to its shell.

I have other issues about replacing full or patches in the trunk and floor area that I will post at a later date.

Thanks for the help.

I used full sail quarters and new inner / outer wheel wells plus new trunk pan and frame rails on my '67.

There are pictures on my photobucket.

All-in-all, they fit pretty well, and the work went well. there were a couple of minor fit issues, but nothing major.

I bought the quarters from Matt's bowties.

The new sheetmetal was epoxied on the inside as well, so that should help with any further rust protection.

The driver's side is worse than the passenger's side.

I thought about going with a Full Quarter on the driver's side and patching the passenger's side but will probably use Full Quarters on both sides. I just hate to cut out good, original metal.

I also need a Full Trunk so by using a Full Quarter I will be able to side the trunk right in without cuting it in half.

How long ago did you install your quarters, trunk, etc.? Have you had any trouble since?

What color gold did you use? I am going back to the original color gold as well.

Thanks.

All the sheetmetal work was done in March 2009. Painted Coranado Gold the first week in April. No trouble since. I am very happy with the way it turned out.

The body shop computer matched the color to the cowl sides behind the fenders. After removing 1/2" of grease and grime, the original gold color shined like new!

Were your quarters worse than mine?

Why did you use Full Quarters and not patches?

Thanks.

Yes, my quarters were worse, and the inner and outer wheel wells were gone, as well as most of the trunk pan. The tail panel was smashed from a former rear-ending.

Basically, there is all new metal from the middle of the back-seat and rearward, except for the trunk hinge supports and rear cowl.

But alll the aftermarket pieces fit "fairly" well.

Ron, I have just completed removal of my drivers side quarter panel, and I can tell you it is time consuming for sure. I would not remove any metal that is good where possible. That justs creates more work. It looks like you can get away with a skin on the passenger side (from what I can see, and an inner wheel house)?

You may still have trouble with a full trunk if you don't have the tail panel off? I just removed mine last night...that had a million spot welds to deal with.

That would be the outer wheel house not the inner...sorry

I agree with 4dabird. Plus I just don't like disturbing good jams and seams that the factory made that are good. I'm going to do mine with just panels, my rust is similar in amount to yours (plus extra $$ for full quarters is out of my option).

I've seen the seam done 2 ways, one on the face of the quarter, and the other goes up and over the lip of the quarter. Honestly I've been thinking about going over the lip since that is the way the patch skins come I think and it gets the majority of the body work up and off the side of the car where it may be more noticeable. My friend did it this way and it looks almost perfect, just a little bondo shrinkage at the seam area of the drivers side quarter, nothing a few extra weeks or months in the sun could have probably taken care of. Either way the seam goes, I also read that a good way to line it up is put the quarter on mock fit (where most of the old quarter is cut off) just enough remaining so the new quarter overlaps a few inches. Then tack it in place. Then cut a line threw both panels (thin cutting wheel), that way it lines up perfectly where you want to butt weld the seam (I think that is the preffered method)... Make sure to goes slow and tack left side then right and back so on so on.. just my two cents, I really haven't done one before so be interesting to hear from the others that have !!

I just finished a full floor pan ,toe boards, trunk,trunk extentions inner fenders (just patched the lower parts) ,outer fenderwells and full frame rails on my 69. I had the tailpanel out because it was smashed in right up to the rear wheel so the trunk, and floor pan was easy to fit in. For my quarters I cut a parallel line 1 1/2" down from the top body line right to the tail panel, with the same 1 1/2" margin along the door jamb. I used what I believe they call an 80% quarter and cut off all the Jamb area and top body line area(including the area that goes over the top into the trunk gutter). I had cut the new panel within about 1/4" of the body lines. I lined it all up with marks I had made on both new and old panel contours, screwed it on when it measured up correctly. I then cut through both new and old panels at the same time with an air body saw all way around the perimeter. When welding the butts together I used an old saw blade to maintain the small gap and started welding old and new together every 8 inches or so as I cut the two panels. Butting the joint tight without the gap causes buckling of the joint and lots more filler work later. Keep the welds far apart and fill them in between later to prevent heat warpage.
This may seem like a lot of work but I have maintained all of the original body line bends and my welds are within 3/8" of the original bends so there is a lot of strength in the joint without warpage from a patch panel style repair where the joint is closer to the center of a flatter panel. The new panels are decent but don't have quite the same radius of bend on some of their body lines.
Just my 2 bits.

Grant

Cutting with the overlap allows a perfect gap. I have not used them yet, but cleco clips can hold the joint areas together with the right gap for butt welding. Use sheet metal screws to hold the quarter in place until it's fitted. Don't tack weld until everything is exactly where it belongs.

On my car I chose to keep the passenger quarter and just use an extension and patch for the outer wheel house. My brace under the tail panel is in excellent condition, so I will not replace that and the trunk will just replace the bottom pan area. I cannot imagine all the work required to disconnect it from the frame rails, rear valence brace, and in front where the seam is with the floor? I have a vert and more room to work with. As you can see from the pics, I do not see how you will fit a complete trunk without the tail panel off. Excuse all the junk in my trunk LOL.

I am going with the original color vedoro green. The idiots who did the previous work slapped an extension over top of the original quarter to conceal the rust and used a generous helping of bondo to slather and hide the rest. The welds were not done properly either and could be picked apart with a screwdriver. WTF are people like that doing working on cars? Ok, enough...I am fixing it the way she deserves.

Measure, measure, measure then just before the tack welds start, measure again.I still have lots of screws holding mine together as I went along I wanted to be able to make adjustments for the repop panels if neccessary. Hardest and most critical part was getting frame rails accurate.

A little history about me and my '69.

I am not a gear head or metal person like most in here so I am having my '69 built from the ground up.

I have owned my '69 for 27+ years. I drove it through high school and college but parked it at my parents house (on concrete) when I purchased another car after college. It sat untouched and not driven for 13 or so years. Through the years I had many offers and opportunities to sell it (and for good money) but I never sold it. Year after year my family and friends wanted me to get rid of my '69 but I would never listen to them. And today I am thankful I did not listen. I promised myself that one day I was going to have the car restored.

My plan was to restore the car after I completed school and after my father retired. Time went by and I waited too late to get started on the restoration. My father passed away 5 years ago this month and I am still kicking myself for waiting too late. But a few years ago I decided the time was right to get started and it took me almost 2 years to find a builder I could trust and with the experience to do the job. After several references, many questions, and time looking at current and past builds I became comfortable with my builder. Even though I am not a gear head I am able to do the grunt work like cleaning and blasting parts, etc. By doing this I am able to learn about my car and the build in general. I understand now what it takes to build a can and the hours and money it will take. I have dedicated this build to my father.

In the beginning I wanted an original build. At this point the car is still waiting on the metal stage to begin and as time goes by my vision has gone from original to modified to high end modified back to original. I am at the point where I am concerned about making the wrong decision (for example Full Quarters or patches) I am only going to build a car once and I want it done right. So once the metal work is complete I expect it to last with no problems for the rest of my life if at all possible.

I now see that there are so many different ways and so many decisions to make while building a car. My '69 is not a rare car and several people have told me to build it like I want to build it. I don't plan on selling the car but I know things could change down the road. If I go the modified rough then I will have more money in the car then probably what it's worth but that does not bother me since I plan on keeping the car. This sounds crazy but the '69 is like family to me.

So getting back to the question of Full Quarters or patches, I still have not made the decision. To avoid any problems down the road I think Full Quarters on both sides would be the right thing to do.

I also have other metal issues with the truck, floor, doors, and fenders. And I will post on these at a later date.

Everyone's thoughts please?

Thanks.

Ron,

What you wrote could have been penned by me about a year ago. (except for all the gear head comments). I would say 98% of the people on this board are here because of a common hobby bond, not to spew their mechanical prowess. And if they help each other out along the way, it works out for everyone.

When I bought my '67 a couple of years ago, I went through all the same questions you listed. I ended up deciding to go the stock-original route mostly because I had the numbers matching engine and trans, so keeping it original (looking) was relatively easy.

I was very happy the way my car turned out, although it looks a lot more 'sleeper' than hot rod.

I am sure however you choose to finish your car, you will also be very happy in the end. It's also easy to modify your car with 'revrsable' mods such as mag wheels or chrome trim. But then you are right, spending money twice.

In my honest opinion, you can't go wrong with a stock-original car, whereas a future potential buyer may not like whatever mods you did for your own taste.

And similarily to your statement about keeping the car 'forever', I will be doing the same with mine. My 10 YO and 7 YO girls are already deciding behind my back who gets which car. So under this line of thoughts, make it the way that you will most enjoy.

As I posted earlier, I felt it was much easier to replace the bulk of the metal because when I was done, I knew what I had. If you don't replace questionable areas, they can come back to ruin a lot of past work and money.

I hate to say it, but the most fun I had restoring my '67 was chasing down all the required parts. (either original used, NOS, or repop). Although a nice sunny day like today is great for the top down cruise home.

Hope this helps!

I am thankful for this website and for members like yourself, 68tpls400. I am thankful to have a site where I can ask questions about Firebird issue's and problems. I want everyone's opinion because I am a rookie at this. I want to hear other's step by step teachings to solve an issue because I know there is more than one way to complete a certain job. I listen to my builder but I always want second and third opinions from others on what to do and how to do it.

I agree with you that an original car would probably be a better sell. My car has its original motor and trans also. And it actually has 30,000 + miles on the odometer. I thought it was 130,000 + miles but my builder tells me it's actually 30,000 because of certain ware and tear on parts throughout the car. But it's still hard to beleive.

68tpls400, your 2 girls are lucky to be getting a convertable from you. It's good to see you have two so no problems will occur down the road. I have a 3 and a half year old daughter who just recently found out about my '69 and she keeps asking me about it.

I went to the shop last night to look at my car (eventhough it has not been worked on) and to look at the progress on the other cars. Hopefully my time will come soon.

I want to thank everyone for the help and please keep the information coming my way.

Thanks.